Once again, who had the bright idea to remove the original skin/loadout system?

(doxjq) #41

But that makes no sense. Are you saying the new system would let people have multiple variants of the same skin? What if someone has 5 different fragment cobalt naders. Will their inventory include 5 fragment skins they can equip to Nader? You can only use one Nader at a time, so how could it? Wouldn’t the game strip them all and just allow you to have one fragment cobalt option for Nader in your inventory?

(doxjq) #42

That’s what I mean by taking things away from people.

Let’s say player1 has every single Fragger loadout in fragment cobalt and he spent hundreds buying elite cases and doing trade ups trying to get them etc. Player2 has one of Fraggers loadouts in fragment cobalt and the other 8 he currently owns in bronze, all up worth not much at all.

If they reversed back to the old system, wouldn’t the guy who only had one cobalt actually be better off? He would have all 9 fragger loadouts, and have the fragment cobalt option as well as the bronze camo option in his inventory while the guy who had 9 fragment cobalts will only have the fragment cobalt option + all 9 cards.

Or am I not entirely understanding this properly?

(Mr-Penguin) #43

Skin cards would be free from all limitations they currently have. Loadout, merc… whatever.

(triteCherry) #44

[quote=“rancid;170985”]That’s what I mean by taking things away from people.

Let’s say player1 has every single Fragger loadout in fragment cobalt and he spent hundreds buying elite cases and doing trade ups trying to get them etc. Player2 has one of Fraggers loadouts in fragment cobalt and the other 8 he currently owns in bronze, all up worth not much at all.

If they reversed back to the old system, wouldn’t the guy who only had one cobalt actually be better off? He would have all 9 fragger loadouts, and have the fragment cobalt option as well as the bronze camo option in his inventory while the guy who had 9 fragment cobalts will only have the fragment cobalt option + all 9 cards.

Or am I not entirely understanding this properly? [/quote]

Any possibility of this happening would mean that anything before the previous system would be unobtainable in the new system, therefore the only way to get the current cobalts would be through cards and they would only introduce new skin/materials for the new system from then on.

This is what I believe they are doing with the first/second generation of cards.

(doxjq) #45

[quote=“derpypenguinz19;170989”]

Skin cards would be free from all limitations they currently have. Loadout, merc… whatever. [/quote]

So that just reiterates my point about the people who have spent hundreds and thousands collecting a specific skin for every merc would be entirely pointless, as they could use one fragment cobalt on whatever merc and loadout card they wanted. So if they currently have 25 fragment cobalts, they in theory only need 1 so the money they wasted trying to get the other 24 is ruled out?

(Mr-Penguin) #46

[quote=“rancid;170994”][quote=“derpypenguinz19;170989”]

Skin cards would be free from all limitations they currently have. Loadout, merc… whatever. [/quote]

So that just reiterates my point about the people who have spent hundreds and thousands collecting a specific skin for every merc would be entirely pointless, as they could use one fragment cobalt on whatever merc and loadout card they wanted. So if they currently have 25 fragment cobalts, they in theory only need 1 so the money they wasted trying to get the other 24 is ruled out?

[/quote]

sighs

Then make all previous cards obtained before the change non-split and keep them as they are now. All future cards are split.

Though I highly doubt that SD would do such a radical thing (keep both systems in a way) for one person that bought a ton of elite cases in a past.

(doxjq) #47

There is no need to sigh, that was my entire point in the first place. I originally said if this system was put in place they would need to keep the old system completely separate, which is why I don’t see it happening. I know my examples are extreme, but there are people around who have done such things (myself included), so it isn’t unreasonable for me to explain why I think some people wouldn’t be happy with reverting. God knows how many cobalt trades Sniff went through to obtain a fragment cobalt A31 fletcher. It would have been insanely expensive.

The old system was way better as I said don’t get me wrong, and I would love to have seen it from the start, but I for one would be incredibly pissed off if the money I’ve wasted trying to get specific loadouts in specific rarities turned out to totally unnecessary, and I’ve spent chump change compared to the amount of money some people have put into skins.

(Mr-Penguin) #48

[quote=“rancid;171000”]There is no need to sigh, that was my entire point in the first place. I originally said if this system was put in place they would need to keep the old system completely separate, which is why I don’t see it happening. I know my examples are extreme, but there are people around who have done such things (myself included), so it isn’t unreasonable for me to explain why I think some people wouldn’t be happy with reverting. God knows how many cobalt trades Sniff went through to obtain a fragment cobalt A31 fletcher. It would have been insanely expensive.

The old system was way better as I said don’t get me wrong, and I would love to have seen it from the start, but I for one would be incredibly pissed off if the money I’ve wasted trying to get specific loadouts in specific rarities turned out to totally unnecessary, and I’ve spent chump change compared to the amount of money some people have put into skins. [/quote]

Valid points. A change to a dual skin+loadout cards system would be far easier to monetize and would encourage people like me that won’t shell out a dime for RNG boxes to pay money for a tangible skin that won’t randomly end up being a shitty Sparks loadout in the current system.

In the end though, a change would mean either letting the 1% whales like Sniff keep spending thousands on the current system (whaling players is a common monetization tactic in mobile apps), or let the majority of currently non-paying players get a chance to open their wallets. If SD and Nexon have any sense, then they’d choose the second one. But we all know they don’t, so… yeah.

(doxjq) #49

I agree the current system is terrible and I hate it with a passion, but I just don’t see how they can change now that so much time and money has gone into it. If the old system was in place or a new system that wasn’t RNG based this game could make mega bucks. I know so many people who literally want to throw their money at this game but haven’t dropped a single cent because they don’t find the luck based model appealing at all - and who can blame them.

(solace_) #50

there are definitely options though if they were to change. Skins for weapons and characters that they already own would be a start, but as you pointed out, there would be issues with duplicate cards and skins etc.

Compensation would be the next step. Depending on how many elite cases you have purchased, you get a certain amount of stake unlocked for you in the new system. You must have seen some of the skins in the video, something like that.

Plus, it wouldn’t be that hard for the devs to make new skins for the game which could also be used to compensate players. But lets be real, how many people have spend thousands on the game? I can probably count them on less than two hands if not one. Hundreds? Not many either. You see my point. It would be hugely beneficial to the devs in the long run because the new skins they would be selling would FAR outweigh the tiny amount of compensation they would have to give out.

Anyways, point is, there are ways they could go about getting rid of the current system. The question is though, will they actually do it? In all likelihood, unfortunately no.

(Nail) #51

Wasn’t that lifted? It usually is after the initial testing phases.[/quote]

nope, everything pre Steam is still under NDA

(ProfPlump) #52

[quote=“derpypenguinz19;28252”]An update of my original thread, “Who Had the Bright Idea to Remove These?” (January 2016)

Three months ago, I happened to stumble across the original Sparks Update (Closed Beta Testing) patch notes and found a bit of information that revealed a whole bunch about Dirty Bomb’s previous cosmetic system.

Long story short, there used to be merc skins that could be chosen freely of loadout options. While they didn’t change the character model, if it were to be implemented right now, it would be a huge step forwards compared to the current system.

But as of 5 minutes ago, I found a video on the DB Discord server that further sets this evidence in stone. It appears to be footage from an early stage of DB’s development that highlights the skins and merc selection system.
REMOVED
As some long time users of these forums probably know, the merc selection and squad layout are the same as this screenshot that’s been floating around a lot (REMOVED). I’m not saying that SD should return to the original loadout system, but an extensive redesign of the loadout cards to better suit a selectable skin system would help both the players separating skins from loadouts and give SD better items to monetize. Trinkets are a good first step. But we can go further than that.

And for a TL;DR/crackpot theory lifted straight from the original thread:

“Why would SD remove equippable weapon and merc skins?”

Is it because of the loadout card system? Keeping it under wraps so they can sell skins later (just like trinkets)? Other reasons that are unknown to us? Whatever the reasoning behind this decision, I can’t see why SD would ditch a potential money-maker that would also make a ton of players happy, specifically those that want to separate cards and skins.
[/quote]

I personally don’t give a fuck about most outfit skins because you just can’t see them (everything is covered by the red or blue lights of ‘enemy’/‘friendly’). The only skins that really stand out from that red/blue glow are the CW and Suspect cards.

(Randomdeath) #53

Instead of arguing about loadout systems, lets take a look at this lil story i modified from a certain script that im sure you all recognize :slight_smile:

Splash Damage heads for the bank of the lava river, but Dirty Bomb’s playerbase is faster. He catches up with his old Master.

Splash Damage and Dirty Bomb continue the swordfight. They battle away, balancing on the tiny platform and puzzled playerbase. Dirty Bomb, standing on the players, approaches Splash Damage on the work platform.

Splash Damage: I have failed you, Dirty Bomb. I was never able to teach you to think.

Dirty Bomb and Splash Damage confront each other on the lava river.

Dirty Bomb: I should have known the whiny level 5s were plotting to take over . . .

Splash Damage: From the good players!!! Dirty Bomb, a difficult, and truly f2p game is evil.

Dirty Bomb: From the whiny level 5s point of view! From my point of view, the whiny level 5s are evil.

Splash Damage: Well, then you are lost!

Dirty Bomb: This is the end for you, My Master. I wish it were otherwise.

Dirty Bomb jumps and flips onto Splash Damage’s platform. The fighting continues again until Splash Damage jumps toward the safety of the black sandy edge of the lava river. He yells at Dirty Bomb.

Splash Damage: It’s over, Dirty Bomb. I have the high ground.

Dirty Bomb: You underestimate my power!

Splash Damage: Don’t try it.

Dirty Bomb follows, and Splash Damage nerfs his young game at the decently fun mercs, then steals from his players in the blink of an eye. Dirty Bomb tumbles down the embankment and rolls to a stop near the edge of the lava.

Dirty Bomb struggles to pull himself up the embankment with his slightly intact gameplay mechanics. His thin loyal playerbase has been burned off. He keeps sliding down in the black sand.

Splash Damage: (continuing) . . . You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would, destroy the good games, not join them. It was you who would bring balance to the oversaturated library of fun games, not leave it in Darkness.

Splash Damage picks up Dirty Bomb’s profits and begins to walk away. He stops and looks back.

Dirty Bomb: I hate you!

Splash Damage: You were my brother, Dirty Bomb. I loved you.

Dirty Bomb’s clothing blows into the lava river and ignites. Suddenly Dirty Bomb bursts into flames and starts SCREAMING.

Splash Damage looks in horror as Dirty Bomb becomes engulfed in flames. Splash Damage can’t watch him as he struggles to climb the embankment, covered in flames.

He runs back to Quake 3 Fortress’s ship as Dirty Bomb drops, smoldering, near the top of the lava pit.

edit: Lol i know this makes SD look like the bad guy, was just having fun

(bontsa) #54

@rancid Well, in my envision one would have use for all the “extra” Fragments and whatnot. As skin and loadout would have to be merged together, making them inseparable. Exactly like all the loadouts now, they have attached combination of skin, weapons and augments.

Not sure about cases. One could have 2 or even 3 different ones for that; merc skins / gun skins / loadouts. Maybe. Trading system would obviously need some changes too that way but I have nothing to offer. @BananaSlug tried to scratch up a model for that up there, maybe something among those lines sure.

So, people who’ve spent money would lose nothing. As result from suggested system would be almost same loadouts as today, only that there is more power for the user to know what they’re getting.

(doxjq) #55

Yeah that that way would work entirely, but other people have been suggesting completely different models over the last few months that have everything separated which wouldn’t work at all.

In my opinion the best way to work with the current skins and loadout system is to just add more clip on items. Like extra layers or something you can equip to a card to give it a different look, or gun sights you could equip, or gun skins you could equip etc. There’s plenty of things they can add to the current system that would make people happy without having to re-introduce a totally different system.

(SereneFlight) #56

[quote=“succinctDeer;170964”][quote=“Faraleth;170891”]That video, along with pre-closed beta stuff is all very much still under NDA and not permitted to be posted on these forums. Please only discuss information that is rightly made public - thanks guys.

Old systems like this were in place BEFORE Dirty Bomb had any form of income besides the founder packs, thus making money was not at the fore-front, it was testing out the game’s systems. This is why old things are still NDA’d, because they simply aren’t relevant, nor were ever going to be implemented in the game in such a manner, it’s just testing. And then people expect that it was actually a “feature” for the game.[/quote]

How exactly is it not relevant? Such a system is present in many other successful FPS games today such as CSGO, Battlefield, Call of Duty and more (or even MOBAs like Dota or League where you buy skins directly from a store, no RNG involved). It may have just been a feature meant for testing purposes but is also illustrates that such a feature is possible in a game like Dirty Bomb and that they have the implementation filed away somewhere.[/quote]
I’m assuming that it’s not relevant because Splash Damage likes to charge us DOUBLE the amount games usually charge for RNG bs… oh wait you can buy bundles of cases so it’s not doubleloooolll…
… I know I like paying more for RNG with chances of getting cosmetics that have weapons and augments attached to them ffs… /obvssarcasmifsomebodydidntnotice
Oh well, spent some money for KF2 keys few days back lol, which I wouldn’t have minded to spend on DB cases if the chances of getting something valuable weren’t so shit… 80% of getting silver card, which will most likely be shit, and you need 4 of them for gold trade-up, again most likely going to be shitty card, and 6 golds for cobalt which surprise! is going to be shit!
But we’re just crazy people for expecting something that’s not

Edit: oh yeah… we really are crazy because there are TRINKETSSS

(ClemClem7) #57

The problem of splitting skins and loadouts is that, a 383 cobalt will be as rare as others sparks cobalt.
If you think rng are just weird, buy a bronze loadout for 17500 credits and don’t trade cards. Let grinders and lucky players have cobalt skins. Nowadays, everyone want a good cobalt, but of so, it will loose its value. It’s just skins, we don’t care if you have a bronze loadout, we only care if you are good in the game. If a trading is implemented, good cobalt cards will have great value.
In Csgo, if you drop a dragon lore, you’re happier (and richer) than if you get a covert skin for a scout sniper, but if you can apply a covert (red) skin to any weapon, everyone will have a dragon lore and it will be devalued.

(bontsa) #58

@rancid Sure adding new layers would require less effort than reworking but in the end of the day, excessive RNG isn’t going to go anywhere likeso. Sniff will still get metric tons of Cobalt Arties, we all will still trade up billions of credits to thin air to obtain 383 Sporks, and so forth. Hence why I feel system should be changed now when there is still chance, under the Beta tag. After official release its truly too late.

@ClemClem7 You do realize cs:go’s system is made so that you have every_single functional asset, weapons in that case, at your disposal from the very start? Skins are only, as name suggests, RESKINS of the gun. Opposed to DB where you have BOTH functionality AND skin tied to same card. So you have chance to lose functionality when attempting to obtain shinier skins.

Sure, some systems intoduce risk to preserve rarity but in DB’s current case its just obnoxious. You grind either tons of hours or tons of money for a CHANCE of getting something good? Thats robbery in my books, not a system of “give something, get something”. Of bloody course one should not get Cobalts by hopping into game for 50minutes and not paying a buck (unless they’re lucky bastàrdos, also a way of hooking people up for more which is a GOOD way of introducing RNG). But making people spend over a monthly developer salary worth in real life currency yet still only giving a chance instead of guaranteed for what they desire? Insanity, not business by any means.

(ClemClem7) #59

Maybe elite cases are too expensive… I don’t buy any of them and I have 3 cobalts.
If you want to get shinier cards, play with a loadout you don’t like. If you want to play with a good loadouts, play with bronze.
@bontsa in Csgo, if you dropped a covert skin on scout rifle, you don’t have to play with it if you prefer AWP. So you will play with a basic AWP but no shiny weapon for you. You want a dragon lore, so you need to pay for this. You can’t get covert AWP just because you have a covert skin in your inventory. It’s the same with good and bad cobalt, the AWP is good, and scout is bad cobalt. Same way.
Cards above bronze are just reskin of the card.
Ps: I prefer the scout in fact but it was an example ^^

(Faraleth) #60

@blisteringOwlNest I can already answer this question for you - this never was an “old system”. It was never intended for the game, which is why it’s NDA’d. The system was from a very early closed beta, entirely designed for testing. The purpose of a feature like this was to allow the testers to test the skins themselves. :slight_smile: