ok weapons are much better (not perfect) but now its time for maps

(Rahabib) #1

The weapons feel much better now - there could be a small tweak here and there, but I think the biggest issue now is the maps.

Container City is horrible. Spawn camping is rampant. The minute this map starts half the people drop out (except the new people who dont know whats in store for them). This could be fixed in a number of ways.

  1. third exit out of spawn on far left side. perferrably attached to the tunnel that goes around the outside of the fence - and/or make it so that the hack door no longer needs to be hacked so that the spawn team can use that side area (and preferred).

  2. make it so that the container area on the right side, there is a chain link fence. they can shoot out but they cannot jump down. the offensive side will need a few more boxes so they can get over the chain link fence area.

I hope these make sense, maybe I should take some screenshots to show.

other maps need faster “movers.”

(tokamak) #2

Container City is so odd. It has the most interesting geometry but the poorest map balance.

(aviynw) #3

%15 is nothing. Spread needs to be reduced much more. I still think it is a bigger issue than the maps. Yeah, some maps like cc are crazy unbalanced, but at least you can leave the server and play one of the more balanced ones. There are no servers with good gun combat. According to the stats site 4 of them seem pretty balanced for pub play.

(Rahabib) #4

as I stated, the weapons are not perfect, but they are better than before - to the point where its acceptible at this point to me. If I pull up the ADS and burst fire, almost all my shots hit finally. Its not ET, but then again, ET wasn’t perfect IMO either. There are issues like crouching does nothing for most weapons, and some weapons are still useless compared to other weapons, but thats something for the weapon balance feedback forum.

Anyway, I think once some maps are tweaked or game play items tweaked more (ie. movers faster, dehack either slowed to a crawl or taken away completely) I think more people will find the game more fun. Double holds are boring, and against smart people - they are the norm. Also the maps really needed to tested with 5v5 not for pubs. Its apparent they weren’t (at least adequately).

If the game shipped with an SDK, we coulda had a lot done months ago. The problem is now, that its so far since release, I am not sure how long it will take for the community to fix these issues, and already the game is on life support. I havent played this game in months, but I am enjoying it now and hope that these issues can be addressed soon before I lose hope and move on (again).

(aviynw) #5

Yeah, we want mostly the same thing, just slightly different priorities. One thing that concerns me about the weapon spread is I feel sd STILL doesn’t realize the extent of the fixes needed. They haven’t attempted to fix the maps yet. But if they released a map patch that made double holds only %15 less common I’d bet you be hitting yourself in the head as well. That’s how I feel. Its a step in the right direction, but they got to get much bigger legs.

I like the idea of having a third exit on the left side. That alone I think can make a big difference.

(Codine) #6

I remember playing yesterday with one of the rifles and the accuracy was the worst thing I have ever experienced. I had one of the red dots on it and I was shooting mid range and it was shooting very VERY VERY far to the left of the dot of the first shot EVERY TIME. And this was me being stationary just shooting bursts.

How the hell do you explain this SD? The whole weapon recoil/spread system is so incredibly broken in this game. Guns don’t shoot where you aim them, smg spam is still supreme. Why play any other build than light with carb9/kross? This weapon balance patch didn’t do anything to the game.

(aviynw) #7

I haven’t tested them myself but it definitely feels like I’m getting killed by rifles and heaviesl with machine guns more than before. Not saying that light ain’t still the best, but maybe slightly more balanced.

(gold163) #8

the weapons feel much better. They’re not perfect, but they are better. It isn’t as apparent if you don’t use ADS and burst, but the assault rifles do enough consistent damage that you can take down light bodytypes really easily from medium/long range with one good burst. At point blank they just run circles around you though. I feel like heavies and mediums should have more speed, since they’re already not able to take advantage of SMART.

I feel that the biggest problem Brink has in regards to its gameplay right now is the map balance. The maps we currently have are small, linear, and crowded. Most of them aren’t designed to take advantage of SMART very well and more often than not they heavily favor the defending side. Hacking objectives in particular are frustrating because they take too freaking long to hack. It also takes a long time to freeze hack boxes, but I suppose that’s better than at launch where it took two seconds to freeze them (actually, I like what we have now much better). I feel like the current maps should be readjusted to allow multiple paths to different objectives so that every command post/bomb placement doesn’t become a massive chokepoint for the entire server population, and objective completion rates/spawn rates/etc should be adjusted after the fact to compensate.

I played my first game of Brink in a LONG time (the pc I usually use can’t run it), and it was great to see maybe half a dozen to a dozen full servers (still not that much). I still wish I could tell if my rank was too high to play on a server BEFORE attempting to join it. What I did get to play was mostly enjoyable, and much more fun than what we had on release. But, there are still a few issues that prevent it from being really fun. Turrets are still completely useless for example, and it’s really hard to tell where it’s good to place them without having them destroyed immediately. Map balance is the biggest issue here.

Since it’s a free weekend, I’m assuming the people I played with weren’t that experienced (though they probably have more time with the game than I do). The average level of play is still fairly low and there is essentially no communication. I think the majority of the self-proclaimed skilled, hardcore Brink players aren’t playing anymore if posters on this forum are to be believed (and there is no reason not to considering how dead the game was before the free weekend) but if they are I really couldn’t tell. But then again, I only did play one game online, but I also scored the highest XP…

tl;dr take a look at the maps. this man is right.

(aviynw) #9

What you are saying about ads and spread with the assault rifle fits in with these values. Assault rifle ads definitely got the best improvement. If all guns got that kind of improvement it would be awesome. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjMek-9ynHuSdFJYdlduWF80cHlMcWZwdFRwTk5Nemc&hl=en_US#gid=0

(Codine) #10

spread should affect how the gun reacts after you start shooting, not the first shot, and this game doesn’t do this. The only rifles that shoot on target is the gerund, rockstedi, and the fnkr3. The other 2 are basically just oversized smgs that doesnt match up with the rate of fire of a real one.

Again, this new balance isnt a real update and still leaves a lot of the guns in the dark.

(iezza) #11

[QUOTE=Codine;387171]spread should affect how the gun reacts after you start shooting, not the first shot, and this game doesn’t do this. The only rifles that shoot on target is the gerund, rockstedi, and the fnkr3. The other 2 are basically just oversized smgs that doesnt match up with the rate of fire of a real one.

Again, this new balance isnt a real update and still leaves a lot of the guns in the dark.[/QUOTE]

This. Currently we have random deviation, to promote skill, i would say that we should have every gun shoot straight for the first shot and then spread affects it, guns could have a certain cool down time untill they shoot straight again. but OFC the assault rifles must have a much shorter cooldwon time to emphasize their slightly longer range abilities.

(tangoliber) #12

The thing is, I didn’t know how to get the walking spread values, and that is the most important. If I knew how to open the console window but still control the game, then I could get it…but as it is, I can’t walk, quickly open the console window and try to catch the value before it disappears. Not sure how people managed to get them previously.

Personally, I would prefer if all guns had good hipfire… (SMGs could be shoot full auto and track the head…and ARs could be for short bursts). I wish Brink didn’t have iron sights at all, so as to emphasize movement…but that’s just me.

(Rahabib) #13

I think some people are missing the point. Weapons aren’t perfect. As I said in the weapon feedback forum, crouching does nothing for most weapons. Some weapons have no purpose. But, there are SOME that are decent enough to work for now. But there are few maps that are good enough to really enjoy what we do have working.

Again, yes weapons aren’t done. I would like the other stuff fixed now and then revisit some of the weapons that still need it. I think at this point the only thing that will make everyone happy is an SDK, but that may never happen.

(iezza) #14

[QUOTE=Rahabib;387227]I think some people are missing the point. Weapons aren’t perfect. As I said in the weapon feedback forum, crouching does nothing for most weapons. Some weapons have no purpose. But, there are SOME that are decent enough to work for now. But there are few maps that are good enough to really enjoy what we do have working.

Again, yes weapons aren’t done. I would like the other stuff fixed now and then revisit some of the weapons that still need it. I think at this point the only thing that will make everyone happy is an SDK, but that may never happen.[/QUOTE]

Yeah weapons are acceptable, so maybe just keep improving them but remove some of the guys working on them and put them into maps?

(gold163) #15

Because the people who specialize in weapon balancing probably have no experience working with maps.

[QUOTE=Rahabib;387227]I think some people are missing the point. Weapons aren’t perfect. As I said in the weapon feedback forum, crouching does nothing for most weapons. Some weapons have no purpose. But, there are SOME that are decent enough to work for now. But there are few maps that are good enough to really enjoy what we do have working.

Again, yes weapons aren’t done. I would like the other stuff fixed now and then revisit some of the weapons that still need it. I think at this point the only thing that will make everyone happy is an SDK, but that may never happen.[/QUOTE]

I agree fully with this. The game is at least playable and more enjoyable on some level than it was before concerning weapon balance. But the heart of Brink’s gameplay is in the maps, and quite frankly the maps we have are terribly balanced. They’re worse off than weapons used to be.

I fully believe that if the players aren’t given some sort of an SDK, this game isn’t going anywhere.

(INF3RN0) #16

I played some last night. Haven’t tried the ARs, but the carb still appears to function about the same. I was hoping I would run into some of the forum pros so I could troll them when I topped the scoreboard every game without using adapted tactics lol.

(gold163) #17

The SMGs are largely the same as usual. It’s the ARs where you notice the most difference. As in, you can actually hit things from across the room now. But yeah, the people playing Brink right now are probably all free weekenders. I was able to top the scoreboard in the one game I played and I haven’t played since launch.

(Codine) #18

Playing as a light medic with the carb9/kross running around like an ass hat healing and reviving everybody guarantees you #1 on the scoreboard every time. You don’t even have to be playing the objective really, just spam your abilities on everybody.

(INF3RN0) #19

I topped with the medics as soldier ;). A billion kills add up.

(tangoliber) #20

You will have a hard time finding forum “pros” on the free weekend. Personally, I’m going to take the weekend off from Brink, because the games just aren’t very good with all the new players. And… I don’t think anyone who regularly plays this game looks at the scoreboard.