Objective Based Gameplay Equals...


(Zekariah) #21

[QUOTE=Tear 08;316739]…I mean if Reach hit the mark then I’m sure this game will…

But then again, I might just be turning away from FPS’s all together…maybe…[/QUOTE]

I’m not saying that this is definitely the reason for you, but all the mentions of Reach and Gears 3 beta got me seeing a bit of a link for why Brink might be a tad bland for us all:

The long slog for levels and unlockables.

It’s over by level 20 in Brink. Sure you can create another character, but that just feels like prestiging in BlOps. (I’m not a big fan of prestiging).

I’m still only Colonel Grade 2 in Reach, and still hammering away for my Gungnir Helmet. I smashed away at Gears 3 Beta to get my Cole Thrashball uniform! (missed the Gold Retro Lancer, just didn’t have the time)

These unlockables keep me going in a game for months on end. Yes, it may seem shallow, but wearing our medals and unlocked armor after a TRULY hard slog makes a game keep you going. The Anger just can’t be “Worn with Pride” as such because you can get it in less than a week if you’re keen.

I’m not writing off gameplay, etc. But i want to work towards something.


(Bakercompany) #22

I don’t expect Brink to be as nearly polished as a 3rd sequel in a series like Gears. Or even more than that in the case of Halo, COD, or BF.

Had Brink looked like this, I don’t think anyone would be complaining… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyXOt4ujJac


(Zekariah) #23

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;316837]

Had Brink looked like this, I don’t think anyone would be complaining… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyXOt4ujJac[/QUOTE]

I remember that video!

What the HELL happened along the way?!?

I know that would have been the PC version, but except for the map layout, this resembles NOTHING of the final product! Tiny tweaks to the objective wheel would have made this the perfect end product!


(Bakercompany) #24

You see the lobster grenade explosions? How awesome and realistic they are and the way the guys ragdoll away from the awesome explosion.

I can say honestly that every game i’ve played on the xbox that also had a pc version looked different for sure, but none were like this. What i’m playing on the xbox and whats in this video aren’t even the same game, not even close.

I like how that lobster is…watching the grenade bounce off the wall and destroy two guys perched above. We get some crappy snail trail following the grenade, followed by what looks like a box of white where it detonates, and people fall down.

Man i’m accidentally convincing myself to just trade this in tomorrow and get something else.


(Zekariah) #25

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;316863]

Man i’m accidentally convincing myself to just trade this in tomorrow and get something else.[/QUOTE]

Don’t dude, stay strong.


(Tear 08) #26

No, don’t worry, after reading that, I’d say it just might be, because I was praising the hell out of those Ribbons and Medals Gears had, I’m not saying I need this constant false pretence of Reward to enjoy a game, but it’s just a simple nicety that I really appreciate…

I can’t say I’m too bothered about Unlockables, but just some kind of Mini-Reward System for the Matches would be appreciated, I mean it doesn’t even have to give Experience, just…well, I’m just blindly asking for things to be like other games now, apologies, a good note to end on; the Gameplay is solid and fun, it just could have been more enjoyable with a few extra things here and there…


(Bakercompany) #27

[QUOTE=Tear 08;317255]No, don’t worry, after reading that, I’d say it just might be, because I was praising the hell out of those Ribbons and Medals Gears had, I’m not saying I need this constant false pretence of Reward to enjoy a game, but it’s just a simple nicety that I really appreciate…

I can’t say I’m too bothered about Unlockables, but just some kind of Mini-Reward System for the Matches would be appreciated, I mean it doesn’t even have to give Experience, just…well, I’m just blindly asking for things to be like other games now, apologies, a good note to end on; the Gameplay is solid and fun, it just could have been more enjoyable with a few extra things here and there…[/QUOTE]

I lol’ed when I got the ribbon for “Grenade Hug” hahaha. That was great.

Brink is just empty feeling. Like great gameplay and neat character/weapon customization buried beneath one crappy game mode, and only 8 maps, half of which are repeatable to some degree.

It just feels like they spent so much time making the main menu, characters, weapons, sounds. And ran out of funding when it was time to design game modes and maps/campaign.


(Runeforce) #28

I have to comment about the comments saying that the maps are unblanaced: they are not. It’s the teams that are stacked! You usually find a bunch of (semi)pro gamers on one side against a bunch of newcomers, who have never tried a objective based FPS before. You can’t solve that with with “balancing” the maps. Actually. the only solution is for the newcomers to improve.


(Stormchild) #29

Let the crowd mature and learn the maps a bit more before screaming for imbalance and repetition. There is often this little vent-route that you never noticed, and which opens new tactics possibilities…
Even after years in ETQW, I still happened to discover a new path or two.

I can understand your remark on the game modes, but bear in mind Brink hasn’t the same funding as the major triple-A FPS productions. Meaning, these enhancements could come later, if they have some money from sales and possible DLCs, or for Brink 2. But they probably hadn’t enough to do all they dreamed in this first opus on release. That being said, it is sold like a triple-A production, true…

Give this game a month or two. It’s like ETQW all over again, and in the end ETQW was my second favorite Multiplayer FPS experience (just behind Wolf:ET which benefits the ‘first timer’ effect).


(Bakercompany) #30

I’ve never started to get bored of a shooter on the second day i’ve owned it.

But as I started realizing what wasn’t in this game, my interest started decaying very rapidly.

Searched and searched for some kind of stats, only to learn there weren’t any, at all. Is it too much to ask to show xp progress for our characters on the main menu? Instead or in addition to total xp?

Then I learn the stats site will probably just be tracking # of turrets placed, etc. Which is great and all, but not exactly what most are hoping for.

One game mode…thats it. A couple variations of that game mode, but only one thing to do over and over again…go after the one objective on the map…

The maps aren’t terribly imbalanced. Its not a matter of learning the maps, I’ve learned them in and out. While there are a couple flanking routes typically, this doesn’t solve the inevitable 16 player slugfest at the several choke points on each map. Not to mention the horde fighting over the one objective.

Is it too much to ask for at least 1 way to break up the monotony of gameplay? Apparently according to this community the answer is yes, or “go back to CoD noob”.

Which means “we like our bland game, if you want more fun you’ll have to go play something else.” Not only is it the wrong attitude, but you’re pushing away what little playerbase will stick with this game.

And nobody has given an answer too why different modes would hurt this game. “Oh its an objective game.” Thats not an answer. Flags are objectives, posts to guard (koth) are objectives. So there goes your argument. You’d still have 16 players fighting over 1 or 2 objectives, so your gameplay remains intact. But nobody can explain to me why they can’t simply ignore those modes if they want, and let tens of thousands of other players enjoy them. Thus keeping popularity within Brink instead of it being slammed down by roughly 80% of the people that bought it.

I really want to love this game. I do like Brink, theres so many things about it I wish I could carry over into a different game. Why a different game? Because I want the things that enable me to have fun, and people don’t want that in Brink apparently.

I’m still waiting on a correct answer or logical answer as to why Stats, Modes, and lobbies would hurt this game. Everyone said that stats would turn this game into kill camping, except half of the matches are spawn camped. There goes that idea… What about the game modes? Nobody has presented a logical answer to that, not even Splash Damage. SD said “they are outdated and we want to get away from that.” They’re not outdated SD, they’re timeless classics. Theres a difference, and a reason why 90% of shooters have modes similar to those.

Nobody calls the Beatles outdated, and they’ve been around forever, and their songs used in everything under the sun. Think of the old modes like the Beatles =D


(Lemming) #31

Part 1 of reactor has 3 routes, with a 4th that can be opened by an engineer. 1 on each side, another that comes up from underneath and the 4th that comes through the bridge access.

People complain about bottlenecks but have almost never gone to the trouble of actually learning the maps.


(Bakercompany) #32

That 3rd route puts you over top of the objective. You still have to enter the same room filled with 8 people, turrets, and mines. Not to mention that entrance is directly above one of the other entrances, so its the same thing just a level above. Thats also where most defenders like to chill and camp out.

It all culminates into one huge cluster**** of a match.


(Apples) #33

Can you, for the love of god, please stop bashing the same and same and same threads over…


(neg0ne) #34

its like playing soccer …

always the same map/field over and over again and again… how boring.
If one Team sucks…yeah it´s the left outline that should be removed, or the goal is too little, or maybe there should be some boxes on the field, or the rules should be changed, or the field is not balanced, or the ball is too round…

  • the maps are balanced, get to know them ( ok, maybe some little tiny tweaks)
  • if you want different gametypes…get the SDK when its out and make them
  • if you or your team doesn´t teamplay, the game sucks
  • if you don´t like teamplay objective style, go sell it and play something else

I had so many games on always the same maps and every game was different (remember…soccer??)… yes some games sucked, but that was not because the game was bad, but because the teams sucked ( yeah sometimes there are stacked teams, sometimes i find myself in a team of TDM players, and sometime i just suck )


(obliviondoll) #35

Except that the multiple routes to the objective allow you to alter the flow of the battle at the chokepoint significantly, so those actually DO make a large amount of difference, and it isn’t just “pile-up at a chokepoint” any more - most missions alternate between closed-in areas and open spaces enough to cater for every playstyle, and even the closed-in areas often have a couple of positions with good long-range overwatch on the objective.

Just because you’ve “learned the maps in and out” and not found out how tactically versatile they really are, doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong when you’re having to change your story from “there’s onle 1 - 2 routes” to “there’s usually flanking routes, but that doesn’t change anything” - especially when it CLEARLY CHANGES EVERYTHING WHEN DONE RIGHT.

Flags are an objective that’s covered by the “recover intel missions”

King of the Hill is covered by ANY defense objectives.

Domination mode is covered by the side objectives of capturing and holding Command Posts.

Brink doesn’t need extra modes because IT ALREADY INCORPORATES THEM.

Very tempted to say “learn to play” right now, but I won’t. That would be rude. If you’re good at Brink, but only when playing a specific way, and you find it gets boring sticking to that one pattern all the time, find someone else who will approach the game differently, and watch them play it - see how they get through things, and you’ll almost certainly find that they get through the same situations in VERY different ways. Sometimes they’ll die where you never would, sometimes they’ll survive where you never have, sometimes they’ll use weapons you thought were the “best” and be unable to succeed, sometimes they’ll use what you called “useless” weapons and wipe out an entire team.


(goat72) #36

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;317374]Is it too much to ask for at least 1 way to break up the monotony of gameplay? Apparently according to this community the answer is yes, or “go back to CoD noob”.

Which means “we like our bland game, if you want more fun you’ll have to go play something else.” Not only is it the wrong attitude, but you’re pushing away what little playerbase will stick with this game.

And nobody has given an answer too why different modes would hurt this game. “Oh its an objective game.” Thats not an answer. Flags are objectives, posts to guard (koth) are objectives. So there goes your argument. You’d still have 16 players fighting over 1 or 2 objectives, so your gameplay remains intact. But nobody can explain to me why they can’t simply ignore those modes if they want, and let tens of thousands of other players enjoy them. Thus keeping popularity within Brink instead of it being slammed down by roughly 80% of the people that bought it.

I really want to love this game. I do like Brink, theres so many things about it I wish I could carry over into a different game. Why a different game? Because I want the things that enable me to have fun, and people don’t want that in Brink apparently.

I’m still waiting on a correct answer or logical answer as to why Stats, Modes, and lobbies would hurt this game. Everyone said that stats would turn this game into kill camping, except half of the matches are spawn camped. There goes that idea… What about the game modes? Nobody has presented a logical answer to that, not even Splash Damage. SD said “they are outdated and we want to get away from that.” They’re not outdated SD, they’re timeless classics. Theres a difference, and a reason why 90% of shooters have modes similar to those.[/QUOTE]

I’ve not quoted all your post Baker, sorry about that. Since you’re actually a decent guy and not one of the incessant whiners here, I’ll try and answer a couple of your questions since you’d probably lump me in with the “community” you disagree with.

There are plently of us who don’t find the gameplay monotonous. It’s a different type of gameplay to other shooters, in fact, virtually all current shooters. I personally find many other types of gameplay monotonous, including things like the more modern CoD games and to a lesser extent, the BF games (incl MoH). I find online RPG’s and most fantasy games utterly boring. The point is, that we all find different games more interesting than others, and we choose to play the games that satisfy our wants. When I played Crysis 2, I quite liked it, but overall found it dull. But I didn’t complain about how it had no objective-play, how I couldn’t customise my character or the water was the wrong colour or whatever. Why should Brink be any different? It is what it is - you either like it or you don’t - that’s pretty much it! Simply put, if you don’t like it, don’t play it. I hope you like it enough to continue and I have nothing against you personally, but why continue to play a game that you’re just not enjoying?

There’s no point saying that people will drift away because it’s boring, etc. ET was hugely popular, despite having pretty similar gameplay. It still appears to be very popular and there is still a competitive scene 8 years later. Just because the gameplay doesn’t appeal to you, doesn’t mean that the majority of other Brink owners also feel that way. As it happens, the original RTCW did have a couple of CTF maps, but after a short period of time, people didn’t bother playing them because everyone preferred the objective maps. I guess that was a reflection of the type of people who bought and loved it. The TDM people were playing Q3 and the CTF people were playing UT, I guess :slight_smile:

As far as stats are concerned, it’s been said time and time again - in a team-based game, personal glory will always be counter to the gameplay. You cannot have a game where medics will sacrifice themselves to revive a team-mate who is carrying out an important task, if that medic is concerning him or herself with kill/death ratios. Even if you personally don’t care, surely you can see how the two things are incompatible? If I’m playing medic in Brink, I can actually get on with my job without caring how many times I get killed, and it’s refreshing and liberating. Much as I like believe otherwise, if everyone could see how often I died trying to revive team-mates, I would be much less likely to put myself in harm’s way in the future.

I hope you realise that these answers ARE logical, even if they are not what you wanted to read. As far as you’re concerned, you’d be best off either putting the game down, or finding a group of people to play with regularly so you can get a sense of what a proper team-based shooter can really be like. I hope you choose the latter :smiley:

goat


(Bakercompany) #37

[QUOTE=goat72;317554]

I hope you realize that these answers ARE logical, even if they are not what you wanted to read. As far as you’re concerned, you’d be best off either putting the game down, or finding a group of people to play with regularly so you can get a sense of what a proper team-based shooter can really be like. I hope you choose the latter :smiley:

goat[/QUOTE]

Actually that was an awesome post.

Maybe I just don’t get it, and maybe Brink just isn’t for me. It has great gameplay, I do want to say that. And i’ll miss SMART more than any other feature in a game.

I think i’ll play to get my engineer to 20 for the achievement, then trade her in.

Maybe i’ll pass some time with the new Fallout: NV dlc until either Transformers: Dark of the Moon or Hunted: The Demons Forge comes out.


(Smokeskin) #38

I honestly don’t understand hiw people can say there is only one game mode. Depending on how you count, there are between 3 and 6

  • repair, blow up, hack
  • escort human, escort bot
  • capture

(Bakercompany) #39

[QUOTE=Smokeskin;317655]I honestly don’t understand hiw people can say there is only one game mode. Depending on how you count, there are between 3 and 6

  • repair, blow up, hack
  • escort human, escort bot
  • capture[/QUOTE]

Those aren’t different game modes. Just different objectives.

A different game mode would essentially have an entirely different objective.

Capture the enemies base, or just kill the enemy team, take their flag and return it, etc etc.


(engiebenjy) #40

Simply put its easier to defend at first, and harder to attack. The more players that learn the maps and routes and the importance of buffs etc the easier attacking will become.

Right now I prefer to be on defence, even when my team loses - I am just less frustrated !