Number of mercs in a match.

(Ashog) #61

Also don’t forget about fun-clans (just like i am in) which also play comp and are a relatively large fraction of clans. If we tactically decide we need 2 medics, 1 fops and a soldier during a particular round, we usually don’t specify WHICH medic, fops and soldier char to be used, it only has to fulfill its class function properly (and classes are still in, if you haven’t noticed). This means,it is up to me to select either Aura, Sawbonez or Sparks to go for and it is a huge part of fun to be able to adapt according to your mood even in comp wars. Not eevry comp clan is so strict in its tactics.

(Kl3ppy) #62

Ashog, you made me laugh. We never Ever make tactical decisions :tongue:

(Glottis-3D) #63

h3h3h3, finaly the secret revealed, now we will beat them nuahahhaah!!

(Kl3ppy) #64

I’m confused, you lost vs us (biatch)?

(Glottis-3D) #65

i dont remember :smiley:

(Glottis-3D) #66

so, basically this question has to be up to league-organizers. how much mercs per round is available for players.
this is more rules-set issue, since some ppl, that are very thoughfull and constructive suggest pretty much opposite things.

(PixelTwitch) #67

[QUOTE=krokodealer;497958]so, basically this question has to be up to league-organizers. how much mercs per round is available for players.
this is more rules-set issue, since some ppl, that are very thoughfull and constructive suggest pretty much opposite things.[/QUOTE]

I hope it does not come down to this really…
If you think about it almost every decisioned in game design has this exact same effect on the “community”.

ie, Time to Kill, K/D in Scoreboard and All classes can do Objectives.

It really comes down to Splash Damage sitting down together and creating an action plan and committing to one of the many options they have available.

Balancing community acceptance is a VERY difficult thing to do… The question SD will be asking themselves on a thread like this is…

Even though many more people asked for MORE Merc options, are they more or less likely to continue playing if they go ahead with changes in the other direction than the few people that wanted less.

500 people could ask for MORE mercs per round
100 people could ask for LESS mercs per round

if SD choose to go LESS than they may lose 75 of the people that wanted MORE.
However, if SD choose to go MORE they may lose all 100 of the people that wanted LESS.

Its a hard knock life :frowning: lol

(Glottis-3D) #68

then it is a game-mod.
though, i dont like when there are dozens of game-modes in a game, ending in every single one not populated exepct for the dumbest one. Like in quakelive. TDM, FreezeTag, CTF are empty, only ClanArena is populated.

i feel that we need a 2-3 modes, but those are ideal.

i think, we need some testing so we could try both MORE and LESS versions.

(PixelTwitch) #69

[QUOTE=krokodealer;497961]then it is a game-mod.
though, i dont like when there are dozens of game-modes in a game, ending in every single one not populated exepct for the dumbest one. Like in quakelive. TDM, FreezeTag, CTF are empty, only ClanArena is populated.

i feel that we need a 2-3 modes, but those are ideal.

i think, we need some testing so we could try both MORE and LESS versions.[/QUOTE]

Testing would not work I am afraid… Simply down to pre-conceived ideas and experience…
When ever you LIMIT or REMOVE something that people have become accustomed too it almost always ends up with the people that did not want it limiting/removing winning out. On top of that it is often made more of a one sided argument due to even some of the people that wanted less getting frustrated with their lack of ability to adapt or maybe they wanted less for the wrong reasons at the start. These people end up back in favour for what it was originally at least. (Just look at what happens everytime they change Twitter, Facebook and YouTube)

Only way testing would work is if they did the test during a LARGE influx of NEW/FRESH players who have not been tainted by the games development up until this point. However due to retention I doubt that will happen any time soon…

The only other way would be for SD to start by LIMITING (giving less) but stick to it for a good 2 - 3 months… then doing a good 2 - 3 months of more afterwards. (the long period of time can somewhat start to limit the effectiveness of pre-conceived ideas)

(tokamak) #70

An option for a random set of mercs would be nice.

(PixelTwitch) #71

I would have actually loved to see a 3 capture points in a line mode… (like one very long street with lots of cover)
and do an ALL RANDOM ALL MID style mode that lasts around 10 min… would be amazing :smiley:

(tokamak) #72

Yeah a random merc set on client side and a server enforcable setting would both be great.

As for the capture points in a line… I’m sure London has suitable metro or roadway tunnels to offer that. Like that scene in 28 days later.

(Glottis-3D) #73

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;497963]Testing would not work I am afraid… Simply down to pre-conceived ideas and experience…
When ever you LIMIT or REMOVE something that people have become accustomed too it almost always ends up with the people that did not want it limiting/removing winning out. On top of that it is often made more of a one sided argument due to even some of the people that wanted less getting frustrated with their lack of ability to adapt or maybe they wanted less for the wrong reasons at the start. These people end up back in favour for what it was originally at least. (Just look at what happens everytime they change Twitter, Facebook and YouTube)

Only way testing would work is if they did the test during a LARGE influx of NEW/FRESH players who have not been tainted by the games development up until this point. However due to retention I doubt that will happen any time soon…

The only other way would be for SD to start by LIMITING (giving less) but stick to it for a good 2 - 3 months… then doing a good 2 - 3 months of more afterwards. (the long period of time can somewhat start to limit the effectiveness of pre-conceived ideas)[/QUOTE]

focus-test for 2 weeks. and it’s a bingo!

i hate CanaryWarf and TrainYard so much because of focus-test with these maps. the things just need to be more swift. like not waiting for 3 monthes untill next focus-test. And a month without a content update.

(PixelTwitch) #74

[QUOTE=krokodealer;497975]focus-test for 2 weeks. and it’s a bingo!

i hate CanaryWarf and TrainYard so much because of focus-test with these maps. the things just need to be more swift. like not waiting for 3 monthes untill next focus-test. And a month without a content update.[/QUOTE]

I agree this focus test has been horrible.
I also would put money on the fact its been nearly useless to the developers also… Focus testing maps that are broken by the simple fact they are behind the game design is more than a little silly… Soon as they nail down the movement system we will see the overall way the map is played changed… again the same thing will happen when they add attachments to the weapons again and even more so if they do changes with allowed Mercs… Not to mention simply having a working matchmaking system.

The focus test for such an idea like mine and yours would need to be longer. 2 weeks is not enough to negate our experience up until this point… As both ideas result in compromise on some mechanics and game flow mechanics. Though we may end up with 5 positives that come out of the change we will still focus on the 1 negative >.<

Such is how the human brain seems to work…

(Ashog) #75

not quite true :slight_smile:

we do from time to time but it’s up to us to decide that, well, today we can’t be arsed to do teh tacs :slight_smile:

(Kl3ppy) #76

Oh i forgot. In the last etqw cup we Bad some sort oft tactic and we werent that bad. Maybe we should habe tried tactics more often :tongue:

(Snotling) #77

I went to 5 mercs per match, sounds logical considering you get 5 classes of mercs on the paper. If you pick one of each, you might be able to play any role when you need to. Imo 3 tends to limit player to 2-3 classes and get you overspecialized when you want to play a bit of everything.

(xdc) #78

after a while ive gotten use to 3, but 4 would work.

(onYn) #79

I think we need to differentiate between pub and comp play.

For pub I personally think that the merc restrictions of 3 isn´t that bad - but in my eyes should be at least as high as the number of different classes out there. Even tho the classes are “nerfed” it´s still may be of use to use the benefit of the correct class when it comes to doing objectives and different type of guns are sometimes usefull as well. It would be also nice, if the limitation of 3 mercs would only be a “favorite” selection for faster access - that you can change all the time during the game with some clicks.

For comp play, the thing is much different, and still too much depending of the future development of merc abilities. I would really like to see a pick and ban phase in comp games - allowing every team to ban as well as pick specific mercs they prefer. Every picked merc, should be usable by the whole team (in some cases multiple times), allowing teams in this game to adapt to current in game situations and specific tactics. Some mercs however, may need to be globally restricted, in order to not allow stacking them - like 5 rocket launchers. Creating a unique lineup of mercs, by that always creating a “new” team or fraction, would make a pick and base really exciting to watch and important, while the game itself would still stay dynamic as it is (or is supposed to be). It would also create an asymmetric feeling, giving the game some more long term motivation while playing and give spectators some diversity while watching as well.

So for comp play, there is really no way to tell what the right restriction, or way of restricting those mercs would be. It depends too much on the amount of well balanced mercs and individual, usefull, while not overpowered abilities. If there aren´t enough of this mercs out there, a pick and ban phase would be totally counterproductive and another solution for restricting them will be necessary because simply restricting them to 3 for a competitive match, would be a horrible solution.

So let´s see what kind of mercs we get in the future - and let´s hope that the merc abilities and the way they are implemented into this game stay an innovative extra for long therm motivation and advanced tactics instead of becoming the focus of the game destroying all the FPS action.

(Dthy) #80

For that too work, the mercs’ would have to be far more unique rather than just the guns determining who gets played, would be cool though.