Non-class based objectives and the results

(k0k0nat) #1

This hit engis as hard as it can.

They are completely useless in comp. ( ok, u can pick to them when the C4 is planted. )
OP Shotgun doesnt work when nobody is running around like a chicken on a public server and u actually have medics that heal u up. Turrets are the biggest joke right now.

The penalty when not picking a engi for the objective doesnt really count. The objectives can easy peasy be done by 3-4 players in no time, while not having a engi around.

Recons never get picked cause they have no goal in this game.

When this continues, while not having any special abilities ( engi rifle nade ?! ) and the unbalanced weapon dmg will stay like this, competitve games will be medic, soldier, fops.

The Soldier is currently the game-maker as he has strong weapons and a lot of health + grenades. Together with a good medic, this is how u win a game.
( And drop some ammo from time to time)

It is really time to put grenades back in the game and finally add a bazooka, which can break such combos. I hope all this gets adressed in the closed beta, because the current gameplay is very monoton.

(attack) #2

i dont think engi is useless.he is rly stong at hacking and repair,other classes are rly slow at this parts.

(k0k0nat) #3

As I said, the objectives can be done in no time with some team-mates around. Which is the case when playing with your teammates.

All objectives are located near to your spawn or on the way , so there is no penalty for going there with all your mates.

The only objectives that actually are hard to do with more ppl. are the barricades on london bridge, simply because u cant find cover behind them with ppl. around.

Waterloo --> Pump? 5 Soldiers can do it. C4? Bitch please. Another pretty useless pump? sigh… Hacking? Lol! C4 again?

Trainyard --> No need. Defending/attacking with stronger classes > rather than having a weak engi/recon on your site.

And so on, and so on.

As result, defending/attacking with the currently stronger classes and even doing the objectiveswith them is more effective.

(Rex) #4

[QUOTE=k0k0nat;476639]This hit engis as hard as it can.

They are completely useless in comp. ( ok, u can pick to them when the C4 is planted. )[/QUOTE]

Yep that’s it. And even if I was engi and defused the C4, I would respawn immediately afterwards due to the close range weapon.

(BomBaKlaK) #5

[QUOTE=k0k0nat;476639]This hit engis as hard as it can.

They are completely useless in comp. ( ok, u can pick to them when the C4 is planted. )
OP Shotgun doesnt work when nobody is running around like a chicken on a public server and u actually have medics that heal u up. Turrets are the biggest joke right now.

The penalty when not picking a engi for the objective doesnt really count. The objectives can easy peasy be done by 3-4 players in no time, while not having a engi around.

Recons never get picked cause they have no goal in this game.

When this continues, while not having any special abilities ( engi rifle nade ?! ) and the unbalanced weapon dmg will stay like this, competitve games will be medic, soldier, fops.

The Soldier is currently the game-maker as he has strong weapons and a lot of health + grenades. Together with a good medic, this is how u win a game.
( And drop some ammo from time to time)

It is really time to put grenades back in the game and finally add a bazooka, which can break such combos. I hope all this gets adressed in the closed beta, because the current gameplay is very monoton.[/QUOTE]

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(Ashog) #6

Tbh, i dont remember any comp game I played where recons or snipers were picked in comp much.
They are just too vulnerable and static, and misses are punished dearly also for the whole team.

The only place I can remember more or less often using snipers was salvage on generator objective in ETQW but else…

(Kl3ppy) #7

First, I understood the idea behind the class less system, but the more I play, the more I miss it. I dont think that someone buys a merc just because he can do the objective. I rather buy a merc because he looks badass and/or has something to offer for me and my team.

After playtesting the classless objectives, I say go back to the classes.

Assault: Has C4 which is used to blow main and side objectives. Also add a possibility to plant C4 on the EV, maybe add C4 to be planted where I want. And please consider the possibility of trick plants, the stupid C4 drop down to ground when armed is skilless.

Medic: The medic should be the backbone of a team, he heals and revives teammates, can do a push, clear an area. But he has nothing to do with hacking, planting and disarming.

Fops: Same as medic, supportive role, special ability is the supportive fire with arty, airstrike and molotov. Also gives ammo to mates. I prefer the Fops class without any objective interaction.

Engie: The typical objective class, should be the only class to repair, build and disarm. Also make the mg nests build able.

Sniper: he is the long range guy, with the ability to hack and infiltrate.

I believe, that the mercs shouldnt be interesting just because they can do all objectives, rather they should be interesting because of their abilities, their guns and their unique playstyle. When I buy a medic merc, I know, I cant do objectives. I bought the medic because he can revive, because he can heal mates. Right now we have 15 mercs, all Sniper, Engie and Fops mercs are the same. We have no Sniper who can be used in close range, all Engies are unusable on mid/long distance fights and Fops, well I dont have to talk about them. Fops is OP, the weapons have the same style. Give us some more choice of the playstyle. I want really different Mercs, right now you can pick one Fops because they are too similar to each other, same on the engie/sniper class.

(montheponies) #8

It’s a bit presumptuous to think the game has to be completely tailored to comp play when the vast majority of players will never touch it. So what if you dont pick engie as the goto class for the entire game - it will always be the case that you’ll pick a class/character for a given situation. Going back to RTCW, at the start of beach you’d have two eng, get the plants down and immediately /kill to med/lt. You’d never see an eng for the rest of the round.

What SD have done is recognised that classes where being forced on us - ie. use a class just because the game demands it, not because they are inherently useful/fun. That last point, fun, is the reason why a lot of pub players will stick with engie.

If anything I’d say the fact that all characters can do objs means that SD have to work twice as hard to make that character useful, rather than relying on the forced game mechanic of ‘you need this class no matter how lame’…

(Ashog) #9

Strange that you are comparing Xt class play with RTCW class play. RTCW was the simpliest class based game ever, regarding class play. Better compare Xt class play to ET.

(k0k0nat) #10

If anything I’d say the fact that all characters can do objs means that SD have to work twice as hard to make that character useful, rather than relying on the forced game mechanic of ‘you need this class no matter how lame’…

Yes I agree with you, rather buff the classes and make them all fun than forcing us to play them because they are “needed for this objective.”

BUT:

All classes beside FOPS and Soldiers need a huge buff right now and ALSO a bigger advantage when doing the objective with them. The abilities and weapons for engis and recons currently offer no advantage for your team.

The penalty when doing the objective with classes “that are not supposed” to do them is currently just “takes some more time”.

Engis are still usefull on the pub. server when ppl. will rather play TDM instead of doing objectives, because you can carry the game.

Engis in ET still had mines/rifle nades/ dynamite and we currently have ONE sticky nade and a weak turret. For recon, I dont even know what to say.

Rifle nades were matchmakers in a lot of situations.

This is why at the moment its feels like TANK + HEALER = Win

Last sentence: Back to class based objectives and major buffs for weapon dmg of currently weak classes + abilities please.

(attack) #11

well the pump in oasis wasnt rly different.i see it more as an tactical element,you can rush pump with first spawn which get the enemy the iopportunity to positioning themself , or direct go for obj

(.N.E.R.D.) #12

Yeah, lets have a fops with a turret AND mines !!! You can keep the cola cans though !!! :wink:

(Ashog) #13

lol i choked on my cola can while reading this :stuck_out_tongue:

(montheponies) #14

I’m not comparing Xt with anything - I’m demonstrating that in games gone by you would have classes chosen to suit the situation and Xt will inevitably be no different. I generally think the OP is highlighting certain problems, but picking the wrong causes. If the argument is that the engineer is underpowered, i’d point you to any number of rage threads on this forum saying the exact opposite. if it’s that the recon is not used, then i’d say that’s due to the maps. If it’s that the medic class is weak, i’d agree, and the smg should be improved - however none of those are anything to do with agnostic objectives.

As an aside, I’m not going to bother arguing about the merits of the ‘simple’ RTCW format - had that particular argument too many times before - suffice to say you’re entitled to your opinion.

(RasteRayzeR) #15

+1, and you also get a great crowd control with the engies.

(k0k0nat) #16

Which crowd control?

Like Airstrikes, Fire Nades, Grenades in general?

(attack) #17

[QUOTE=k0k0nat;476718]Which crowd control?

Like Airstrikes, Fire Nades, Grenades in general?[/QUOTE]
mines ,turrets, s ticky nades

(k0k0nat) #18

Mines --> I can shot them.

Turrets --> You must be joking

Sticky nades --> Yes, useful.

(Ashog) #19

Well by giving a double wall engie plant example from the RTCW Beach, you are inevitably comparing this game’s class play to Xt, else why would you place this example here? What I was saying that in contrast to RTCW, in W:Et the engies were not bound to the needed but short-lived planting tasks, they were often used continuously thru the whole map lengths, even in comp. And the difference was exactly in the weapons, abilities of engies and in the map layouts - long range nade rifles, armor, mines and large maps in ET, as opposed to the same health and weapons as other classes in RTCW. There you go. So if you want to say that engie is not underpowered in Xt, you are mostly wrong, but in addition, yeah, some contribution of improved skills and abilities is needed, along with the wepons buff and increasing of the sense of usefullness of the engie class/characters.

Oh and I always discarded those engie shotgun rage threads as a nonsense.

(montheponies) #20

So how does that differ from what i’ve said. If you contest that the engie is underpowered how does making him necessary to complete tasks make him any better?

Tackle the core problem of the characters weapons and abilities - we had exactly the same argument 6months ago when the soldier wasn’t being played and SD gave him the C4 so some poor sod had to play him.