No Ragdoll No Buy

(DarkangelUK) #101

[QUOTE=dinkomalinko;278560]Well they are realizing that it is indeed a hot topic apparently and maybe needs to be re-evaluated. And I searched and nothing had a topic devoted to ragdolls.

My hopes and prayers would be a sequel that incorporates Euphoria or ragdolls.

I know it’s already to late but it’s never too late for a sequel, since most big games start brainstorming for sequels soon after the original goes gold…[/QUOTE]

I can assure you, i’ve been here for a long time… and there was PLENTY of discussion regarding ragdolls. In all honesty, it ranks wayyy below female models, and probably any other aesthetic that has no impact on gameplay what so ever.

(DarkSlayer54) #102

Your post pisses me off. For one thing, I did play L4D. I played both games, and I think they both suck. Saying I didn’t play them is completely idiotic, especially since they added a single player feature for a reason. I don’t really care how much better the multiplayer is, If I hate the single player the multiplayer won’t be much better.
I also didn’t pirate it. That’s what pisses me off the most about your arrogant reply. I borrowed the game from a friend, and I never dive into multiplayer first. That’s simply stupid. I beat the Single Player, and I stopped playing it. It wasn’t worth any more of my time playing a game that damn boring.
Next time think beyond one possibility, and you should also avoid making bull crap accusations.

(Zanchile) #103

isnt believing the MP sucks because the SP sucks not thinking beyond on possibility. not getting in to your aurgument with auzner or trying to be a dick , just asking my question in the least troll like way i can

(DarkSlayer54) #104

That can be true… but, in my case with L4D it isn’t. There needs to be a small spark in the single player to get the real fire going, especially since you pretty much do the same thing in Multiplayer… but there was never a spark. L4D1 was playable, I actually enjoyed half the game before it got boring. After I beat it I had enough of it… The spark to the game was long gone. When L4D2 came along I figured “hey, maybe it’ll be a bit funner”… once again I jacked it off a friend (who loves the game…) and to my surprise I got bored after the first mission.
I’ve thought of why I find it so boring… and, I actually think the majority of it is because of the ragdoll physics. Killing the zombies just wasn’t satisfying, and so I think you can understand why the Multiplayer would suffer for me as well as Single Player.

(zerorawr) #105

Why do I smell trolls in this thread?

(SockDog) #106

[quote=DarkSlayer54;278601]That can be true… but, in my case with L4D it isn’t. There needs to be a small spark in the single player to get the real fire going, especially since you pretty much do the same thing in Multiplayer… but there was never a spark. L4D1 was playable, I actually enjoyed half the game before it got boring. After I beat it I had enough of it… The spark to the game was long gone. When L4D2 came along I figured “hey, maybe it’ll be a bit funner”… once again I jacked it off a friend (who loves the game…) and to my surprise I got bored after the first mission.
I’ve thought of why I find it so boring… and, I actually think the majority of it is because of the ragdoll physics. Killing the zombies just wasn’t satisfying, and so I think you can understand why the Multiplayer would suffer for me as well as Single Player.[/quote]

I get bored running through a brand new map. As everyone is saying the enjoyment from that game is not the content or even the goal, it’s totally the journey you make with the other players. It’s the human aspect of the game which creates the sparks. You’re also missing out on stuff like Versus mode which is a totally different experience to the campaign mode.

But if nothing else you helped prove my point about people approaching games with totally different expectations.

(AnubisToxin) #107

[QUOTE=dinkomalinko;277505]No a game needs to be polished and balanced with ragdolls. Bad Company 2 is incredibly balanced and polished with ragdolls, as is Halo Reach and Red Dead… and I’m also enjoying Homefront…

Why can’t this have ragdolls until they stop momentum on the ground, in which ragdolls is turned off, and they can wait to be revived or whatever?

I just don’t see why it wasn’t included. Everything that’s been said can be worked around.

We all have preferences when it comes to games, whether you like to admit it or not. Physics and ragdolls (along with customizations) are my preference.

This game looks like it does Customizations extremely well and may help me want to buy it.

Just cause a person gets ‘taken down’ and not out doesn’t mean ragdolls can’t be implemented. If someone is running and I shoot them in the back or in the legs or whatever (take down their health) , they can still fall to the ground with momentum. Then you could say once the physics have stopped, the ‘take down’ animation can start once stopped. It may be a little herky jerky, but it still way better than pre-canned death animations.[/QUOTE]

Homefront RagDoll issue here. I play a sniper most matches. Playing on Cul-De-Sac I shot a guy jumping off a roof and he preceded to die and literatly body flip to the other side of the house… Sounds a bit broken to me

(DarkSlayer54) #108

[QUOTE=SockDog;278619]I get bored running through a brand new map. As everyone is saying the enjoyment from that game is not the content or even the goal, it’s totally the journey you make with the other players. It’s the human aspect of the game which creates the sparks. You’re also missing out on stuff like Versus mode which is a totally different experience to the campaign mode.

But if nothing else you helped prove my point about people approaching games with totally different expectations.[/QUOTE]

That’s a good point, and I see what you’re saying. It’s like the difference between playing Battlefield alone, or with a full squad of friends… it’s just meant to be played as a team. I’m still confident I’d hate Online play though, I simply really find the ragdolls boring. I can’t have fun with killing zombies, and that’s what you expect to have when jumping in. I can’t explain the sheer amount of boredom I experiences from it. I really can’t.

Anyway, bringing up L4D got this slightly off course. My original argument was that the Ragdoll killed the game for me and it made it terribly dull.

(Cankor) #109

[QUOTE=DarkSlayer54;278637] I’m still confident I’d hate Online play though, I simply really find the ragdolls boring. I can’t have fun with killing zombies, and that’s what you expect to have when jumping in. I can’t explain the sheer amount of boredom I experiences from it. I really can’t.
[/QUOTE]

Of course if single player (which is usually nothing at all like multi player) is boring multi player will be the same. :confused:

You don’t think the dynamic of playing with real people instead of bots would change anything? Real people, who when you help are actually grateful? Real people who communicate with you in meaningful ways? Real people who watch your back and offer you helpful advice? Real people you can laugh with when something funny and outrageous happens? Real people verses a computer routine? Seriously?

I get so bored with scripted stories and shooting stupid pop-up enemies in FPS single player games I have only finished one, ever. The rest I’ve never made it more than 1/3 through before getting bored to death. So I understand why you would call it boring, but tt’s just ridiculous to judge any multi-player game on how well the single player game plays, they are almost always completely different.

(DarkSlayer54) #110

[QUOTE=Cankor;278647]Of course if single player (which is usually nothing at all like multi player) is boring multi player will be the same. :confused:

You don’t think the dynamic of playing with real people instead of bots would change anything? Real people, who when you help are actually grateful? Real people who communicate with you in meaningful ways? Real people who watch your back and offer you helpful advice? Real people you can laugh with when something funny and outrageous happens? Real people verses a computer routine? Seriously?

I get so bored with scripted stories and shooting stupid pop-up enemies in FPS single player games I have only finished one, ever. The rest I’ve never made it more than 1/3 through before getting bored to death. So I understand why you would call it boring, but tt’s just ridiculous to judge any multi-player game on how well the single player game plays, they are almost always completely different.[/QUOTE]

As I’ve said, I really can’t explain the amount of boredom that that game caused. If it were with any other game out there, I wouldn’t tell myself that I’d hate the Multiplayer.
I think the easiest comparison would be the CoD: Black Ops Zombie mode since it’s pretty much the same thing. I played the Zombies mode by myself for quite a bit of time before jumping into Multiplayer, and I had a lot of fun on Solo. Then I went onto Multiplayer and I had an even greater blast and never touched the Solo play again.

Here’s the thing, what bores me about L4D isn’t lack of humanity or tactics, or anything like that. It’s the ragdoll (a major feature to the game) that bores me to death. It’s still there in Multiplayer, and playing with others won’t fix it. It’ll just mask it.
I have no idea how fun the “versus” mode is in L4D, but as far as the Co-Op goes (exactly the same as Solo)… I simply wouldn’t enjoy it. If I find absolutely no enjoyment in killing the zombies, which is what the whole game should deliver… how can I possibly enjoy it Online where all I have now is someone to talk to? I may not be nearly as bored, but that lack of satisfaction is still there.
I agree that judging a game only by it’s solo is silly, but in this case I just know I’d hate it. This really is frustrating to describe… I have no idea how to put it in simple words so you know how I feel about that game, and just how boring the ragdoll is for me… but, here’s the best possible example I can think of.

Lets say you have a Pizza, and you eat it with just one topping… but, the issue with the pizza isn’t that topping, it’s the dough itself. You find it dull and disgusting.
Now, lets say you put a bunch of new topping on it, for a whole new experience… but that nasty dough is still there. The first bite may make you think “oh, this is new. I may take another bite.”… but, after a few bites those toppings just won’t be enough to mask the taste of the dough itself, and you’ll once again find it dull and disgusting.
This is really the simplest way I can describe my opinion of Left 4 Dead.

It’s not something a few new features will fix. I feel kind of bad for using L4D as an example in the first place since it began this whole discussion… but really, L4D is the first game where I’ve judged the online from the Single Player. Usually games have very different Multiplayer gameplay from Single Player gameplay, but L4D (Co-Op), is exactly the same as Single Player except it has new features. That’s the only reason I know I’d hate it.
Do you see what I’m saying? I’m not being some hypocrite or a stubborn person. L4D is just one of those games where I have no fun, and the reason is the Ragdoll which is why I brought it up.

(LyndonL) #111

I just finished playing GTA IV the other day. I was in a car chase mission and the lead car ran into the side of a motorbike, and the person on the bike didn’t just fly forward, but actually launched at a 50 degree angle into the sky and flew through the sky for at LEAST 100 metres that I could see til it went out of my FOV.

Not the peak of realism. Sure ragdolls are funny to watch, but the amount of times they do things stupid that annoy me far out ranks the good aspects (ie a dead body spasming on the ground for a few minutes).

[QUOTE=DarkSlayer54;278589]<…>I did play L4D
<…>
I borrowed the game from a friend, and I never dive into multiplayer first. That’s simply stupid. I beat the Single Player, and I stopped playing it. It wasn’t worth any more of my time playing a game that damn boring.[/QUOTE]

I’m just wondering what difficulty level you set it to? If you had it on Expert and played it Coop I find it exceptionally difficult to believe you’d find it boring.

(Murderous Pie) #112

[QUOTE=DarkSlayer54;278655]As I’ve said, I really can’t explain the amount of boredom that that game caused. If it were with any other game out there, I wouldn’t tell myself that I’d hate the Multiplayer.
I think the easiest comparison would be the CoD: Black Ops Zombie mode since it’s pretty much the same thing. I played the Zombies mode by myself for quite a bit of time before jumping into Multiplayer, and I had a lot of fun on Solo. Then I went onto Multiplayer and I had an even greater blast and never touched the Solo play again.

Here’s the thing, what bores me about L4D isn’t lack of humanity or tactics, or anything like that. It’s the ragdoll (a major feature to the game) that bores me to death. It’s still there in Multiplayer, and playing with others won’t fix it. It’ll just mask it.
I have no idea how fun the “versus” mode is in L4D, but as far as the Co-Op goes (exactly the same as Solo)… I simply wouldn’t enjoy it. If I find absolutely no enjoyment in killing the zombies, which is what the whole game should deliver… how can I possibly enjoy it Online where all I have now is someone to talk to? I may not be nearly as bored, but that lack of satisfaction is still there.
I agree that judging a game only by it’s solo is silly, but in this case I just know I’d hate it. This really is frustrating to describe… I have no idea how to put it in simple words so you know how I feel about that game, and just how boring the ragdoll is for me… but, here’s the best possible example I can think of.

Lets say you have a Pizza, and you eat it with just one topping… but, the issue with the pizza isn’t that topping, it’s the dough itself. You find it dull and disgusting.
Now, lets say you put a bunch of new topping on it, for a whole new experience… but that nasty dough is still there. The first bite may make you think “oh, this is new. I may take another bite.”… but, after a few bites those toppings just won’t be enough to mask the taste of the dough itself, and you’ll once again find it dull and disgusting.
This is really the simplest way I can describe my opinion of Left 4 Dead.

It’s not something a few new features will fix. I feel kind of bad for using L4D as an example in the first place since it began this whole discussion… but really, L4D is the first game where I’ve judged the online from the Single Player. Usually games have very different Multiplayer gameplay from Single Player gameplay, but L4D (Co-Op), is exactly the same as Single Player except it has new features. That’s the only reason I know I’d hate it.
Do you see what I’m saying? I’m not being some hypocrite or a stubborn person. L4D is just one of those games where I have no fun, and the reason is the Ragdoll which is why I brought it up.[/QUOTE]

Versus mode is increadible. if you can get 2 people on one 360, even more so. my friend was a boomer and i was a smoker, so i grabbed a survivor from behind and started suffocating him while my friend barfed all over him, so he had like 100+ zombies attacking him. he was totally cut off, and his team could do nothing. that is the magic of Versus mode.:tongue:

(Auzner) #113

You played with bots on easy and normal mode. You’ve completely missed expert coop, vs, survival, scavenge, mutations. You played like 1% of the game. You saw guns shoot, pills spawn and got caught by a smoker.

So I wasn’t far off. You didn’t own the game where you could actually do MP anyways. It was a bore because you never learned how to play it right. The bots don’t teach anything other than heal every 20 seconds. They won’t let you limp through the level with temporary health. There are no challenges whatsoever, the bots sacrifice all their supplies to keep you alive. And because you never went online you probably thought this was normal gameplay and that it was too easy to stay alive. So you never learned correct cautious tactics and think the game is about mow over zombies.

[QUOTE=SockDog;278619]As everyone is saying the enjoyment from that game is not the content or even the goal, it’s totally the journey you make with the other players. It’s the human aspect of the game which creates the sparks. You’re also missing out on stuff like Versus mode which is a totally different experience to the campaign mode.

But if nothing else you helped prove my point about people approaching games with totally different expectations.[/QUOTE]

Because every topic of discussion in this thread is about the neckbeardest it can get. This is what happens when casual gamers hear a technical term from somewhere. They like to latch on and repeat it to death to feel like they’re involved with video games and genuinely like the hobby.

And how did I know you’d be a person who would write exactly this? I didn’t make any hasty assumptions, I was completely right. I’ve played Black OPs zombie mode in coop. After an hour I was done and never need to play it ever again. It was typical CoD bs for casual gamers. You won’t admit L4D was too hard for you and because of circumstances you physically could not go online to actually play the game the way it was supposed to be played. That’s why your “review” of it is invalid.

I can’t just be rambling if this has gone on for a whole page now.

(DarkSlayer54) #114

[QUOTE=Auzner;278757]
And how did I know you’d be a person who would write exactly this? I didn’t make any hasty assumptions, I was completely right. I’ve played Black OPs zombie mode in coop. After an hour I was done and never need to play it ever again. It was typical CoD bs for casual gamers. You won’t admit L4D was too hard for you and because of circumstances you physically could not go online to actually play the game the way it was supposed to be played. That’s why your “review” of it is invalid.

I can’t just be rambling if this has gone on for a whole page now.[/QUOTE]
You weren’t completely right what so ever. You’re first post insulted me and you labeled me as a “pirater”, and now you say “I didn’t make any hasty assumptions”. Yeah right.
However, this second post actually had some good points. I guess L4D really isn’t about killing zombies, but trying to survive… I think that’s why I hated it, since I was playing it to kill zombies, and since it wasn’t satisfying it got dull and boring fast.

I’ll still give that game a pass though. Ironically the Black Ops game mode is seen as a “survival” game mode, while really… all it is, is mowing down and killing the zombies. Since it uses animation for satisfying kills, I have fun with it’s simplicity. I want to end this discussion on L4D… my point was that Ragdoll physics made L4D boring and dull, and it did. It’s a dull game if you play it to simply have some mindless fun and kill zombies (which you helped point out to me), while Black Ops: Zombies is the opposite. It’s easiest to ditch tactics and just run around in circles killing zombies, but the animations make it satisfying.

(BioSnark) #115

wolfenstein 2009 had the best death animations… game had ragdolls, naturally.

(ryryelectro) #116

COD has ragdolls :slight_smile:

(DarkSlayer54) #117

I should be more specific. :confused:
I don’t hate all ragdolls. I just hate it when it replaces animation, or it takes the majority. Like, in CoD or BF, or any other game. Generally, they animate the model falling to the ground, and only after the model hits the ground the ragdoll takes over. I love that, so then you see it fall off buildings and what not.
I just think it’s dull and boring when the ragdoll takes over when the model is still up right, or when it falls into ragdoll without any minor animations. I should really be more specific… eh darn, my original post implies all ragdolls… Just ignore what I said, I created two pages of pointless discussion.

(SphereCow) #118

Don’t they blend from and with animations in some games?

On a side note, I wonder how old the OP is.

(Auzner) #119

They’ve stated they have played video games since at least 1991. I can’t even claim that, but I do know about 90’s DOS days. I can look at game play more than graphics when I really want to. Deus Ex Machina defacto Crysis has horrible gameplay and really good graphics. Horrible because it’s been done before, in the 90’s. And rag dolls are just another part of ‘graphics’. Even old school gamers apparently will only care about graphics. Hence the neckbearding over this.

(SphereCow) #120

The question is: Would you really be that interested in watching a movie with picture quality from the mid-90’s thats not a result of art direction, but financial/time limits or neglect? (Yes, people, this is an analogy.)

For me, CS:S, COD, Halo, and whaetever block buster shooter you can think of is relatively boring for me compared to Wolf:ET, but to forget the fact that games have matured a bit since 1995, and even 2000 is to be completely myopic.

Gamers have a wider variety of expectation these days, since games keep pushing the boundaries in different directions, ie, CoD4 with it’s SP gameplay, TF2 with its achievements, and Crysis with it’s physics.

Splash Damage has always done a great job of investing in amazing gameplay as you can see in their past games, but to say that someone isn’t able to criticize SD because their game lacks some baseline feature that tons of games have had for years is like saying that one can’t criticize Crytec for Crysis’ awful story, short gameplay, high demands, and cliffhanger ending.