No Ragdoll No Buy

(dinkomalinko) #1

Well I know I’ll get flamed for this topic but it’s really disappointing to see these pre-canned death animations. I was so annoyed by Call of Duties lack of ragdolls for the past 5 iterations that I refuse to play them, and sold all the ones I have.

Part of why I play games is to be immersed in the game. If someone is running and I shoot them in the back, I expect them to fall to the ground with momentum. In Call of Duty, they suddenly stop in their tracks - throw their hands up - then fall to their knees then to the ground in about 5 fps. It just destroys any lack of fun to me.

When I shoot someone on a ledge or on stairs, then I expect them to fall down them. Or if I shoot someone while they are running, I expect them to have that momentum carry through until they are on the ground.

Part of the huge draw to me for Red Dead was the Euphoria engine, it adds SO MUCH to that game. Sure it’s great in other regards, but Euphoria really adds the immersion. Same with Bad Company 2 (one of my all time favorite online console FPS) because it has rag dolls. Sure , the way Bad Company 2 implements them they are a bit over exaggerated but it still adds that ‘wow that was awesome’ when you play.

I don’t know what it is, but I can’t get into games with pre-scripted death animations. I almost immediately sell it if MP doesn’t implement them - Crysis 2 lasted about 2 weeks after completing the SP. The other reason I play games is that “wow” factor, and physics is definitely one of the things that does it for me. Halo Reach is absolutely bananas when it comes to ragdolls, it makes the game so much fun to me.

This is 2011, games shouldn’t be using pre-scripted death animations that’s pre-2000 it seems. Honestly, I’m sure I come off sounding like a donkey but there are some things/requirements in games that I look for. Ragdolls and physics is one. This game looks great fun but now I’m second guessing whether I want to buy it. It doesn’t make sense to me as to why they can’t implement ragdolls? Maybe after 5 seconds the body is on ground, it becomes unmovable. So that way a medic can come and revive or whatever.

But part of what creates those ‘wow’ moments are when momentum is carried through the animations. When you have pre-scripted death animations that sort of stop that momentum, it really frustrates me for some reason. I can’t stand Call of Duty. Bad Company 2 is an absolute blast and I support those guys 110%.

Brink to me looks great, but with no rag dolls, it’s pretty much a purchase breaker for me.:frowning:

I been playing games for 20+ years, and I just think we are at the day and age where ragdolls… and even dedicated servers, should be a requirement for big releases such as this.

I don’t mean to hate but really?? No ragdolls? WHY? I’m not talking exaggerated deaths, just something that keeps the momentum of the body.

(Schwarzeis) #2

They don’t die, they get knocked down

They are still alive while in this phase, and you can finish them off

(Shadowcat) #3

[QUOTE=Schwarzeis;277495]They don’t die, they get knocked down

They are still alive while in this phase, and you can finish them off[/QUOTE]

And by extension, ragdolls an momentum present a problem for reviving. If someone faceplants as they die, or falls off a building, how are you supposed to throw them a syringe, or have them be able to use it on themself? Not to mention the ability that allows you to shoot your secondary while downed.

(15% or more) #4

Wow. That’s gonna stop you from buying this game, huh?

I guess you’ll miss out on all the fun the rest of the world is having.

I find it humourous that some people will look past HUGE debiliatating bugs in other games, but pitch a fit if they don’t like how a player looks when they die in a game. Why don’t you give Fallout 3 or S.T.A.L.K.E.R. a try and see how those games make you feel? (No offense Bethesda.)

(LyndonL) #5

Sounds like you won’t be missed anyway mate. You don’t support a game. You sold the old CODs which had something you liked because the FUTURE CODs didn’t? You realise selling your copy of a game is not supporting a dev at all.

The lack of ragdolls makes you stop enjoying a game? Come on, a bit full of yourself aren’t you? You say BC2 is all mighty because it has ragdolls? But all the glaringly obvious faults in the game don’t come up because it has ragdolls?

Next pointless thread please.

(Wieke) #6

Because ragdolls would make it considerably harder to implement the whole “down but not out” thing. Characters get knocked down instead of killed (and would need finishing off) and with the right skill can even keep on shooting (but probably not as accurate or fast as normal). If they used ragdoll physics there wouldn’t be any way to guaranty that a character ends up in a workable position.

So they’re using animations instead of ragdolls. What really matters if they created enough animations and use different ones depending on context. Momentum could still play a role (a running character getting a different downing animation than a stationairy one).

(dinkomalinko) #7

[QUOTE=LyndonL;277499]Sounds like you won’t be missed anyway mate. You don’t support a game. You sold the old CODs which had something you liked because the FUTURE CODs didn’t? You realise selling your copy of a game is not supporting a dev at all.

The lack of ragdolls makes you stop enjoying a game? Come on, a bit full of yourself aren’t you? You say BC2 is all mighty because it has ragdolls? But all the glaringly obvious faults in the game don’t come up because it has ragdolls?

Next pointless thread please.[/QUOTE]

No a game needs to be polished and balanced with ragdolls. Bad Company 2 is incredibly balanced and polished with ragdolls, as is Halo Reach and Red Dead… and I’m also enjoying Homefront…

Why can’t this have ragdolls until they stop momentum on the ground, in which ragdolls is turned off, and they can wait to be revived or whatever?

I just don’t see why it wasn’t included. Everything that’s been said can be worked around.

We all have preferences when it comes to games, whether you like to admit it or not. Physics and ragdolls (along with customizations) are my preference.

This game looks like it does Customizations extremely well and may help me want to buy it.

Just cause a person gets ‘taken down’ and not out doesn’t mean ragdolls can’t be implemented. If someone is running and I shoot them in the back or in the legs or whatever (take down their health) , they can still fall to the ground with momentum. Then you could say once the physics have stopped, the ‘take down’ animation can start once stopped. It may be a little herky jerky, but it still way better than pre-canned death animations.

(Cankor) #8

Oh, I know, lets pass up one the most innovative games of the past few years because it’s missing some special effect which while possibly cool looking adds nothing to the actual gameplay.

(PariahDog) #9

Not exactly good examples there but they also lack something this game has. People don’t die when you first shoot them they go into a incapacitated state where medics can revive them. Some players can even take an ability to fire their weapon in this state.

(DoHo) #10

While it’s not a deal breaker for me I do agree that ragdolls are important (more so in the last few years where they’ve become more realistic), and the Euphoria engine is a great example of them.

(dinkomalinko) #11

Team Fortress 2 did basically this 5 years ago…so innovation can be argued…

I’m not saying this game is bad, I’m looking forward to it. But no ragdolls is quite disappointing and no reason they shouldn’t be implemented. Take downs can still happen with ragdolls. Once the body is on the ground stopped, ragdolls can be turned off.

This game with the Euphoria engine, I’d be willing to spend $100 for that lol… would be insane!

(Ajax's Spear) #12

[QUOTE=15% or more;277498]Wow. That’s gonna stop you from buying this game, huh?

[/QUOTE]

we used to have a thread about the best entitlement stories concerning Brink we’d all heard. This is pretty average compared to some of them. I remember one kid wasn’t going to get it unless they made the third tier challenges easy enough so he could complete them…he didn’t want to buy the game if he couldn’t complete everything.

(LyndonL) #13

[QUOTE=dinkomalinko;277512]Team Fortress 2 did basically this 5 years ago…so innovation can be argued…
<…>
This game with the Euphoria engine, I’d be willing to spend $100 for that lol… would be insane![/QUOTE]

TF2? W:ET did this before TF2 did it thanks very much. Also there are many more innovations in Brink than class systems and objectives.

And Euphoria engine? BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA MANIACAL LAUGH you honestly want the game to have the AWESOME hit detection and lag that BC2 has?!?

(Shadowcat) #14

[QUOTE=LyndonL;277517]TF2? W:ET did this before TF2 did it thanks very much. Also there are many more innovations in Brink than class systems and objectives.

And Euphoria engine? BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA MANIACAL LAUGH you honestly want the game to have the AWESOME hit detection and lag that BC2 has?!?[/QUOTE]

As much as i would like to agree with you, the original TF mod existed before W:ET

(LyndonL) #15

I stand corrected, however in my defence he did say TF2.

But anyway, Brink still has many other things that are innovative: Freedom of Movement, Team Play incentives etc etc.

(SphereCow) #16

While I wouldn’t keep from buying Brink because it’s missing ragdolls, I can totally understand the frustration of someone who’s been playing games in modern years. I mean, look at Overgrowth. It’s a stand alone preproduction game developed by a tiny team taking donations, and they’ve got ragdolls and decent hand to hand, leg IK on hills, animations that scale, and a whole bunch of nice tech that makes the interactions between the players, their environments, and themselves much more involving.

Pre-canned animations suck pretty bad for 2011. I’m sorry, it’s the truth.

(DouglasDanger) #17

You aren’t dead when you hit the ground in Brink. Ragdolls wouldn’t make any sense.

(A.i) #18

its not a matter of being dead, but the way you hit the ground :slight_smile: in GTA4 you could fly and roll for 100 meters in all ragdoll glory, but still had standup animation in the end

(tangoliber) #19

Has any class-based game had revives and euphoria?

Killzone has epic body physics in campaign…it doesn’t it have it in multiplayer, because it wouldn’t work. People would fall into areas in which they can’t be revived out of the map, and they may not fall into a position where they can easily change into the mortally wounded animation…

Also, nobody is claiming that Brink is innovative because it has a class system. It is innovative because it is one of the first true Versus Campaigns ever.

(LyndonL) #20

Apart from all the reasons people have already listed that ragdolls don’t work… I said in the other 20 page thread about ragdolls… Brink is going to be pretty fast paced. You won’t be sitting watching a ragdoll animation. Your attention will be instantly focused on the next enemy trying to shoot you.