No more instagibs on headshots with Vassili (kinda dumb)

(Amerika) #21

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Am I good enough/experienced enough to say something on the subject? Of course all I’ll be doing is repeating what I typed above. SD is finally starting to listen to people and trying to make a compromise. And it’s not like these changes are 100% guaranteed to be permanent. It’s hard to argue, if you’ve ever scrimmed, pugged or played legit matches against high end teams, that use Vassili that instant kills weren’t pretty crazy. You could be a fairly awful team but if your Vassili got to quick kills on long spawn and you were able to setup and hold it was huge. And most of the time that was being done from relatively safe positions.

I like the change. I think it fixes one pretty big issue at the high end and barely touches pub play. Again, don’t act like 100% of your kills were headshots. Many times somebody was revived because the body turned and you couldn’t immediately shoot the head or you mp400 killed them and still needed to do the same thing…now you just tap a toe or whatever with a shot and they are down. We also got an extra bullet in the mag per gun.

(Merci1ess) #22

[quote=“Amerika;105386”]All merc stats
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Am I good enough/experienced enough to say something on the subject? Of course all I’ll be doing is repeating what I typed above. SD is finally starting to listen to people and trying to make a compromise. And it’s not like these changes are 100% guaranteed to be permanent. It’s hard to argue, if you’ve ever scrimmed, pugged or played legit matches against high end teams, that use Vassili that instant kills weren’t pretty crazy. You could be a fairly awful team but if your Vassili got to quick kills on long spawn and you were able to setup and hold it was huge. And most of the time that was being done from relatively safe positions.

I like the change. I think it fixes one pretty big issue at the high end and barely touches pub play. Again, don’t act like 100% of your kills were headshots. Many times somebody was revived because the body turned and you couldn’t immediately shoot the head or you mp400 killed them and still needed to do the same thing…now you just tap a toe or whatever with a shot and they are down. We also got an extra bullet in the mag per gun.[/quote]

Basically what I’m saying here is that I can live with this change if they do something about the defibs having a minimum amount of charge before being able to revive people. To give me time to finish them off. I’ve been playing a little bit just now and I’ve got footage and an example to back up my argument and to show you guys what I’m talking about.

Sorry for the quality… but it’s good enough

(Sinee) #23

The lack of gibbing now, whether it be headshots or explosions or whatever, has just made the medic class OP. The revive trains have always been a problem, but now it’s even worse. Combine that with Phoenix’s self-reviving, Sparks and Auras and especially in a place like execution, it’s just too much. You don’t get a chance to finish people off, even with laser-sharp headshots, and being as quick as possible. The bolt action animation alone takes up enough time that you can’t gib before people are tap-revived. Then they have that invincibility shield to boot. You don’t even get a chance to gib. This isn’t a rare scenario either, it happens all the time.

That on top of Vassili having such a tiny clip size, and he’s lost a huge amount of viability as a teammate.

(watsyurdeal) #24

@Mericless

Sparks probably already had her gun ready to go, but I’m pretty damn sure that there’s a 250 millisecond windup before you can revive someone.

(Merci1ess) #25

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;105506”]@Mericless

Sparks probably already had her gun ready to go, but I’m pretty damn sure that there’s a 250 millisecond windup before you can revive someone.
[/quote]

Doesn’t matter. Could’ve been a Phoenix, Aura or Sawbonez. They don’t need any charges.

(avidCow) #26

[quote=“Merciless;105529”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;105506”]@Mericless

Sparks probably already had her gun ready to go, but I’m pretty damn sure that there’s a 250 millisecond windup before you can revive someone.
[/quote]

Doesn’t matter. Could’ve been a Phoenix, Aura or Sawbonez. They don’t need any charges.[/quote]

She had revivr on charge, that means she’s 100% focused on that Rhino player that very moment. Deal with it. You’re not supposed to be a counter to ALL the medics. For crying out loud, that’s literally the toughest merc in the game you’re shooting at, and you’re having a QQ because a pocket medic was keeping them alive!

(Sinee) #27

You’re being kind of unpleasant, aren’t you? Adorable.

This was just an example of the specific scenario so that @Merciless could demonstrate a point he was trying to make. This isn’t a rare occurrence, it happens all the time with all the medics and all the players. They’re able to tap-revive instantaneously and due to the shield and the speed of the bolt action, it’s nearly impossible to gib fast enough. Revive trains are BAD in Execution and in pubs. I won’t reiterate my point because I’d be wasting my time on you.

This is our opinion and if we want to debate it on the forums, we’re going to, and you can’t really do fuck all about it. So kindly have your opinion over there while we have ours. If you want to debate smartly, feel free.

(Merci1ess) #28

[quote=“avidCow;105535”][quote=“Merciless;105529”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;105506”]@Mericless

Sparks probably already had her gun ready to go, but I’m pretty damn sure that there’s a 250 millisecond windup before you can revive someone.
[/quote]

Doesn’t matter. Could’ve been a Phoenix, Aura or Sawbonez. They don’t need any charges.[/quote]

She had revivr on charge, that means she’s 100% focused on that Rhino player that very moment. Deal with it. You’re not supposed to be a counter to ALL the medics. For crying out loud, that’s literally the toughest merc in the game you’re shooting at, and you’re having a QQ because a pocket medic was keeping them alive![/quote]

“You’re not supposed to be a counter to ALL the medics”… What?

Whether or not she had a revivr on charge doesn’t change the fact that I shot the fuckin’ guy before he got up. He’s supposed to be dead. “For crying out loud” whether he’s the toughest merc or not, he’s down on the ground. I already did the job of taking his 200 hp down. What, should he have another 200 HP to eat up when he’s in pain on the floor? People here are telling me that I can finish a downed opponent. That I have the TIME to finish them off after my bolt-action animation before they get revived. That the invincibility shield doesn’t mean shit and that if I’m fast enough, I can kill them before they get up. This video shows otherwise. If this was before the latest patch, I wouldn’t have to worry about shooting him again since he would be 100% dead as I headshotted him.

Sorry, you might be a medic player and this pisses you off… But I’m just proving my point by bringing evidence. The only person who seems to be “having a QQ” here is you.

(avidCow) #29

You’re being kind of unpleasant, aren’t you? Adorable.

This was just an example of the specific scenario so that @Merciless could demonstrate a point he was trying to make. This isn’t a rare occurrence, it happens all the time with all the medics and all the players. They’re able to tap-revive instantaneously and due to the shield and the speed of the bolt action, it’s nearly impossible to gib fast enough. Revive trains are BAD in Execution and in pubs. I won’t reiterate my point because I’d be wasting my time on you.

This is our opinion and if we want to debate it on the forums, we’re going to, and you can’t really do fuck all about it. So kindly have your opinion over there while we have ours. If you want to debate smartly, feel free.[/quote]

What I get from this thread is that it’s a problem that a medic focusing most of their attention on a nearby teammate can effectively revive them as soon as they go down, and then crying that it’s not possible to gib said downed players because of that. And in your first post in this thread you’re a snide and condescending l33tbro. So fuck you, tone police. Hypocrite.

You know what’s funny, neither of you talk about your team! It’s ME ME ME. The problem you talk about is explicitly one of synergy between a support class and another player. And you guys are just a lonesome sniper shooting at people from within your little vacuum! Boo Hoo!

When I watched that video the first thing I did was start thinking about how a team could stop that push (ironic, the sniper was doing a good enough job it seems) A wise use of Vas’s heartbeat sensor and one Stoker hiding on the stairs could have smashed both those players with a single molotov if you had just let them inside instead of forcing them to stay behind cover outdoors. But no, all that exists is you and your sniper rifle and your l33t skills.

“MUH HEADSHOTS!”

(Sinee) #30

[quote=“avidCow;105555”][/quote]Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize my initial post started with @avidCow and was a personal attack on you specifically and was all about you. Sorry you’re so sensitive and got your feelings hurt.

I’d respond to the rest but I don’t see a point.

Anyway.

[quote=“Amerika;105386”]All merc stats
Merc stats
Weapon stats

Am I good enough/experienced enough to say something on the subject? Of course all I’ll be doing is repeating what I typed above. SD is finally starting to listen to people and trying to make a compromise. And it’s not like these changes are 100% guaranteed to be permanent. It’s hard to argue, if you’ve ever scrimmed, pugged or played legit matches against high end teams, that use Vassili that instant kills weren’t pretty crazy. You could be a fairly awful team but if your Vassili got to quick kills on long spawn and you were able to setup and hold it was huge. And most of the time that was being done from relatively safe positions.

I like the change. I think it fixes one pretty big issue at the high end and barely touches pub play. Again, don’t act like 100% of your kills were headshots. Many times somebody was revived because the body turned and you couldn’t immediately shoot the head or you mp400 killed them and still needed to do the same thing…now you just tap a toe or whatever with a shot and they are down. We also got an extra bullet in the mag per gun.[/quote]

I can understand that the gibbing in comp may have been an issue, but it just confuses the hell out of me how skill is constantly punished and the low-skill casual players are always given free rides. If someone plays enough to be good at something, it gets nerfed. I feel like this isn’t a game that rewards or pushes skill. It is fucking HARD to snipe in DB… so it’s really rewarding when you can be a viable member of the team with him; this change is so confusing and frustrating.

Comparably, if this change were to stick, I do feel like with the lack of gibbing from headshots or explosions and what-have-you, has made medics a little OP across the board. It’s particularly bad in execution. I saw you mention revive trains were a valid tactic at one point but it’s such a fucking pain in the ass now. It’s worse IMO than it ever has been, and it’s just a shame because, in the case of Vassili, he’s lost a big chunk of viability as a teammate. He can’t clutch worth a damn either anymore.

I need to dig up patch notes to see all the changes lately in the last couple patches. Been a little out of the loop. I’d definitely like to see a mag size increase at least, but I doubt they’ll give more than 6.

(avidCow) #31

Haha, again with the snark. There’s no need to worry about my feelings, thanks.

(Merci1ess) #32

Haha, again with the snark. There’s no need to worry about my feelings, thanks.[/quote]

Mmmmmmmmaybe a lil bit.

I’m still kinda waiting to see how much time you’ve spent on Vassili. It’s usually a way to know if people are talking out of their ass.

(avidCow) #33

Legit, SD should just assemble all the l33test snipers and let them balance the game.

(Merci1ess) #34

D’awwwwhhh… don’t be silly. I believe you’re a smart guy. You won’t defend or fight against something you have absolutely no clue about… If I would be talking against Phantom or Fragger and I never played or experienced them for myself… It would kinda make me look like a fuckin’ idiot right? It’s like saying you hate sushi but never tried it.

I’m just curious.

(avidCow) #35

There’s that vacuum again!

(KattiValk) #36

To be fair, combat reviving is currently incredibly viable. Perhaps the time someone is still “down” while they are reviving should be increased?

(bizarreRectangle) #37

Well, amerika and plump had valid points. But with that video evidence I’m not sure. Maybe you can provide more?

Perhaps the time until the revivr could shoot a projectile would be increased? And maybe you can’t just tap e to revive someone with the defibs. Perhaps they have to be charged a little longer to revive.

Even if I’m playing as any other character, it’s annoying for medics to just tap e once, usually when I don’t have the time to revive. Especially when an aura or sparks is up the rhino’s ass. As a medic you should be charging up your shots anyway. And you will never get revived with just 30 hp ever again!

(sentimentalDime) #38

While i haven’t played Vas seriously that much since the CW update, i did main him before, so i think i can come with some valid input.

The instagibbing was OP, the fact that you could effectively ruin a push for the next 25 seconds with the press of a button, every single time the enemy made a push, with no cooldown or penalty whatsoever, wasn’t balanced.

That said, the total removal of instagibs of a target that has full health wasn’t the greatest way to solve this problem either.

Here’s my take on solving this problem: Give Vassili an ability called Deadshot.

It has a cooldown of 30 seconds.

It lasts for 8 seconds.

During those 8 seconds your firerate with bolt action snipers is increased by 25%, damage is increased to 80 regardless of which sniper you are using, and of course, any headshot to a merc that dies from the shot, will also be gibbed.

For the PDP i’m thinking a damage buff during those 8 seconds, to about 55 damage, along with a headshot multiplier increase to 225% .

EDIT: Cooldown timer does NOT start until the ability has ended.

(avidCow) #39

[quote=“bizarreRectangle;105712”]Well, amerika and plump had valid points. But with that video evidence I’m not sure. Maybe you can provide more?

Perhaps the time until the revivr could shoot a projectile would be increased? And maybe you can’t just tap e to revive someone with the defibs. Perhaps they have to be charged a little longer to revive.

Even if I’m playing as any other character, it’s annoying for medics to just tap e once, usually when I don’t have the time to revive. Especially when an aura or sparks is up the rhino’s ass. As a medic you should be charging up your shots anyway. And you will never get revived with just 30 hp ever again! [/quote]

There’s something up with the “evidence”. You can gib a player revived by Sparks quite easily if you’re close and focusing on them, I did so earlier tonight by simply knifing them half a second after the dart hit. It’s a generous window. If a sniper round does not gib a player when it connects at the same time a downed player is struck with the revivr, then there’s something wrong.

(bizarreRectangle) #40

I don’t like your deadeye suggestion. To be honest it doesn’t really fit with the dirty bomb abilities. It’s a bit overwatch/blizzard-like.

@cow So are you saying he may have modified the footage that he provided? I know how to deal with revives, but it wouldn’t hurt to tweak it.