Nexon forums and NDA

(rookie1) #41

This …

(spookify) #42

With how scared SD is of powerful medics it never will be sad to say…

Medics lead the way… Or at least they did in RTCW and ET and those games had epic team play…

Oven BOT lane in LOL the Medic is needed and has OP heal and abilities… Able to stay alive whenever!

(Glottis-3D) #43

i realy hate when sometimes arguements here end up as ‘you just want et2, etqw2, rtqw2’.
i always want to dive in and say:
of yeah. ET/RTQW/ETQW were actually good games, while DB is not [hopefully: not YET].

(spookify) #44

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;513969]i realy hate when sometimes arguements here end up as ‘you just want et2, etqw2, rtqw2’.
i always want to dive in and say:
of yeah. ET/RTQW/ETQW were actually good games, while DB is not [hopefully: not YET].[/QUOTE]

The MODES are the exact same as ET…

SW is RTCW and ET!

You can throw fancy guns, new graphics and some other things in their but SW game play and Team Play goes hand in hand…

We have NO fire-teams…
We have horrible Maps and Spawn Placements…
We have weird Spawn times…
We have uninteresting Objectives…
We have Classes that Can do ALL objectives!
We have Health Regen and Ammo Stations…

(Kendle) #45

Medics were OP in ET, IMO, but not in RTCW. In RTCW Engie was the objective class, you played Medic if you wanted to be helpful, and Lt if you just wanted to frag (being able to give yourself more ammo was more important than being able to give yourself more health).

But yeah, we’ve come a long way since then. Engies had 8 'nades and Lt’s had Arty, and Medics had insta-heal Med packs. Powerful abilities that defined the class, not the watered down “everyone can do everything more or less” that we have in DB (health regen and ammo packs being other team-work killers of course).

(spookify) #46

[QUOTE=Kendle;513972]Medics were OP in ET, IMO, but not in RTCW. In RTCW Engie was the objective class, you played Medic if you wanted to be helpful, and Lt if you just wanted to frag (being able to give yourself more ammo was more important than being able to give yourself more health).

But yeah, we’ve come a long way since then. Engies had 8 'nades and Lt’s had Arty, and Medics had insta-heal Med packs. Powerful abilities that defined the class, not the watered down “everyone can do everything more or less” that we have in DB (health regen and ammo packs being other team-work killers of course).[/QUOTE]

Yes LT had airstrikes in RTCW but weren’t they basically the same? It was still almost all medics, 2 engys and an lt in most matches I played… That was attacking… Medics were still the 1v1 killers.

Defending was a Panzer, 2 LT’s and Medics…

Medics still were the top number…

(Sun_Sheng) #47

3 medics, 1 Lt, 1 Engy, 1 variable depending on the map … but ultimately it comes down to …

[QUOTE=spookify;513970]

You can throw fancy guns, new graphics and some other things in their but SW game play and Team Play goes hand in hand…

We have NO fire-teams…
We have horrible Maps and Spawn Placements…
We have weird Spawn times…
We have uninteresting Objectives…
We have Classes that Can do ALL objectives!
We have Health Regen and Ammo Stations…[/QUOTE]
In DB you can still pwn if you work as a team and support each other which suggests things are going in the right direction in encouraging teamplay, but my own personal feeling is, it doesn’t encourage it enough. Tonight for example, before the beer took effect, a good reviving medic can be a real asset, but without the full revive capability, it’s severely diminished and that discourages people from playing the role. The same goes for each of the roles. They are so equal that they all seem a bit limp-wristed.

You can currently pretty much choose any role you fancy, and then as Kendle has said before, you end up with the “everyone can do everything so nobody does” situation. You try to plant, you get owned, you try to repair, you get owned, so you just go off and deathmatch with everyone else. Currently the game does allow for a good reviving med to swing the balance, but that seems hard to discover since i don’t see too many people playing that role

(Kendle) #48

When I joined the Alpha I was enthusiastic about this game because I didn’t arrive here directly from ET / ET:QW (I’ve spent years playing DOD and Urban Terror in the meantime, DOD being area control and UrT being CTF).

I was enthusiastic about the Merc system and a seemingly wide range of weaponry (DOD has 5 basic weapon types which are all very, very different from each other), I loved the idea of shotguns, snipers and big **** off machine guns all coming into play. What killed ET for me was everyone having the same putt-putt gun, no variety, no diversity, and head-tracking being the only skill in town (again I mention DOD, which is all about weapon control, where it truly takes a long, long time to get good with any of the guns, and even then they all require different skills).

But DB, perhaps influenced by the ET contingent here, has reduced the diversity of the weapons to the point they’re all bland imitations of each other. We don’t want rock / paper / scissors, but without it we have no reason to pick a Merc based on what gun he / she carries. So why do we pick a Merc? Because of what they can do? No, because they can all do everything, to a greater or lesser extent. Because of what they bring to the team? No again, because everyone can be self-sufficient if they want (health regen / ammo racks).

I would actually be MORE enthusiastic about DB if it was LESS like ET. I want more “out there” craziness, more weapon diversity, even if that means rock / paper / scissors, Mercs that can do stuff that other Mercs can’t, in ridiculously inventive ways, more objective variety, more things to do and more ways to do them.

BUT … and this is the deal breaker for me, the game HAS to conform to certain basic tenants of team-based objective gameplay if it’s to be a team-based objective game, (spawns, maps, classes) and it simply doesn’t. :frowning:

(Glottis-3D) #49

agreed on this.
projectile weapons, flamethrower.
some real area-denials (not like current spam-only nader’s way of denial)
and class objects.

then mercs will start to mean something.

(chippy) #50

I still want each merc to have something in their arsenal that actually alters the map. Just small meaningful things, not the ability to take down a whole building. Throw up a rope ladder that “decays” after a certain amount of time/uses. Things that we could see in the engineer video who had a buildable small wall. “Throwables” that actually give you options to traverse areas and complete objectives rather than do-this-once-in-this-spot-only kind of deal.

(potty200) #51

If you are gunna remove the classless system I honestly think 3 types of mercs would work better. So a repair man, a healer man and a big guns man.

The abilities you could change and choose. Just so you do not need a fops or a pointless recon. Make the engineer more worth while. Drop the fops and give the ability to the heavy wep’s man or even the engineer? Some think this:

Medic: Either Light or Medium body size - Revive paddles - ONLY CLASS THAT HAS HEALTH REGEN OVER TIME. (Addition ability - Med packs, self rev, healing station) - Unable to repair / build things.

Heavy: Either medium or Heavy body type - Bigger and better weapons! - Everyone has frag, concussion or flash grenades. - Has a set of pliers and repairs/plants at 1/3rd the speed of an engineer. Current abilities can be move from recon.

Engineer: either light or medium body type. - Blow torch (100% build time) - Ammo packs for teammates (Give engineers more purpose on defense) additional ability to be like a turret or landmines. current abilities can be move from fops.

Just throwing out something I haven’t seen yet. 5 “classes” for a moba style 5on5. Try limit to give teams a chance. Too many people want to play medics. Rather than make them weaker, make the others stronger and more fun!

(Glottis-3D) #52

[QUOTE=potty200;514006]If you are gunna remove the classless system I honestly think 3 types of mercs would work better. So a repair man, a healer man and a big guns man.

The abilities you could change and choose. Just so you do not need a fops or a pointless recon. Make the engineer more worth while. Drop the fops and give the ability to the heavy wep’s man or even the engineer? Some think this:

Medic: Either Light or Medium body size - Revive paddles - ONLY CLASS THAT HAS HEALTH REGEN OVER TIME. (Addition ability - Med packs, self rev, healing station) - Unable to repair / build things.

Heavy: Either medium or Heavy body type - Bigger and better weapons! - Everyone has frag, concussion or flash grenades. - Has a set of pliers and repairs/plants at 1/3rd the speed of an engineer. Current abilities can be move from recon.

Engineer: either light or medium body type. - Blow torch (100% build time) - Ammo packs for teammates (Give engineers more purpose on defense) additional ability to be like a turret or landmines. current abilities can be move from fops.

Just throwing out something I haven’t seen yet. 5 “classes” for a moba style 5on5. Try limit to give teams a chance. Too many people want to play medics. Rather than make them weaker, make the others stronger and more fun![/QUOTE]
this is very similar to my 3-role system.
i just thought, that any mercs can be any ‘class’ just with different set of abilities and guns.
i mean why limit Gun-fighters with medium/heavy bodytype?
Proxy with her speed and incredibly great secondary can be easily a frag-dealer.

(potty200) #53

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;514008]this is very similar to my 3-role system.
i just thought, that any mercs can be any ‘class’ just with different set of abilities and guns.
i mean why limit Gun-fighters with medium/heavy bodytype?
Proxy with her speed and incredibly great secondary can be easily a frag-dealer.[/QUOTE]

I completely disagree with a shotgun being on a light class and have been vocal about it. Proxy needs a change as she has no weakness right now. I wouldn’t want a light class running around with explosives and big fire power.

Or you could not limit body types and have another brink where nobody plays medium or heavy?

(Anti) #54

[QUOTE=potty200;514006]If you are gunna remove the classless system I honestly think 3 types of mercs would work better. So a repair man, a healer man and a big guns man.
[/QUOTE]

If this isn’t another class system what is it? A role system? :slight_smile:

We like the idea of roles but I think we can find more roles than that, that would be valuable and fun.

(spookify) #55

[QUOTE=Anti;514010]If this isn’t another class system what is it? A role system? :slight_smile:

We like the idea of roles but I think we can find more roles than that, that would be valuable and fun.[/QUOTE]

SNIPER! I likea da Sniper!

(Glottis-3D) #56

role system is what a proficiency-system needs to go.
proficiencies, being obvious for us - testers because we know that Bush and proxy used to be engie class. seem to be counter initiative for any others. Since any merc can do anything does any newcomer will know whom to kill first on a disarm? a medic or an engie?

if the system itself says that there are roles(classes) that are ment to do objects. then everything will be much clearer.

(Mustang) #57

I still hope that each role with have an objective that they are more proficient at than all other roles are at said objective.

(Anti) #58

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;514013]role system is what a proficiency-system needs to go.
proficiencies, being obvious for us - testers because we know that Bush and proxy used to be engie class. seem to be counter initiative for any others. Since any merc can do anything does any newcomer will know whom to kill first on a disarm? a medic or an engie?

if the system itself says that there are roles(classes) that are ment to do objects. then everything will be much clearer.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that we don’t communicate the different Mercs’ roles well enough right now, but there are plans to fix that. For one we want each Merc to have their own guide video that will explain strengths and weaknesses, best use cases, preferred maps etc to help get that across.

We also need descriptors on each of their profiles that highlight their roles, words like ‘Aggressive’, ‘Defensive’, Long Range’, ‘Short Range’ etc. They’ll have the same affects as LoLs ‘Mage’, ‘Fighter’, ‘Melee’ type meta tags, but don’t mean we have to limit each Merc to one particular tag or the other, and gives us the chance to explore nice hybrids.

(spookify) #59

[QUOTE=Anti;514015]I agree with you that we don’t communicate the different Mercs’ roles well enough right now, but there are plans to fix that. For one we want each Merc to have their own guide video that will explain strengths and weaknesses, best use cases, preferred maps etc to help get that across.

We also need descriptors on each of their profiles that highlight their roles, words like ‘Aggressive’, ‘Defensive’, Long Range’, ‘Short Range’ etc. They’ll have the same affects as LoLs ‘Mage’, ‘Fighter’, ‘Melee’ type meta tags, but don’t mean we have to limit each Merc to one particular tag or the other, and gives us the chance to explore nice hybrids.[/QUOTE]

Also hopefully creating less spam and more teamwork?

If you do indeed double abilities I hope you have a plan where its just not one big spamfest! Abilites are great but dont loss the soul of this being a shooter!

#60

[QUOTE=Kendle;513965]I don’t want RTCW or ET. I stopped playing RTCW in 2003 when ET was released, and stopped playing ET in 2005 back when it was as active as it ever was, through choice (I loaded up DOD:S one day when I was bored, because it came free with Half-Life 2, and got hooked).

What I don’t want is mindless TDM, especially when the game pretends not to be mindless TDM by having things like objectives to complete. If a game is supposed to be a team-based objective game then it should be a team-based objective game. With it’s current spawn system, maps, and class-less objectives, DB isn’t a team-based objective game.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. SD dont get it, sadly

Yeah