New XP system

(Humbug) #1

http://s1.postimg.org/b4124ftsv/2015_05_18_00002.jpg

Seems a bit random? xD

(Ardez1) #2

I don’t see what you mean? It looks fairly normal to me.

You get experience for helping your team and doing objectives, as well as kills. It makes sense that players will have more experience with fewer kills - If that is what you mean.

(Gi.Am) #3

Nope looks fine.

Wasn’t in the game so I’m just guessing.

Engineers on chapel defense don’t have that much to do (unless you threw all stickies at the EV) so main XP income was combat XP. Dreamcrusher was a skyhammer so on top of his good k/d he got a ton of game XP from destroying the EV.

Not sure about the two vasilis, but they propably get a gamexp bonus everytime they kill the delivery guy. Also vendara has a skyhammer in his squad so if he played him in the escort phase. He scored some gamexp aswell.

Guilte vs. your score well they are pretty close so I would asume it comes down to who repaired the EV more/stayed closer to it for longer (asuming he was bushwacker) in the attacking round (or maybe a little support XP for helping a teamate up).

Combat XP is just 1/3 of the score.
The game rewards playing the objectives as it should.

I mean look at bobbert his k/d isn’t the best. but he is firmly in the top spot of his team.

And it propably is because he pushed that EV like a boss.

(Szakalot) #4

also, lots of XP comes from badges. Scorin an ace is a badge for triple kill; a badge for quadkill and the ace badge, overall more than +1k xp for a single ace. Make one more kill and you get a killing spree badge, etc. etc. etc.

(Humbug) #5

yep, you’re analysis is pretty much perfect .
The new system rewards team and lemming objective play, over the good players, to say it a bit harsh. I’m not sure if i like it or not.

i got more of those, than the rest in this game

(Ardez1) #6

And by good players you mean players that go for kills? The highest scores are generally people who combine kills with playing the objective. It is about the win, not the score. The exp provides no benefit, so I don’t see why people worry about it. In the end it is about the fun and the credits - Scoring the W is more important than scoring exp IMHO, as it is more fun to win than to lose(again IMHO).

So if you are getting kills and that allows a teammate to score the objective, why should you individual score matter? You can always go and look at the K/D later anyways if that is how you feel and use that as your measurement instead of XP.

Besides, if the most EXP always went to the most kills, nobody would want to even try and revive players or do the objective.

(Humbug) #7

Well I don’t know, winning is a team effort after all. While they were holding F to deliver, I was securing their backs. The maps are not tactical either, so staying alive and killing is what requires skill and the old system (battle sense) did at better job at rewarding this.

Another example: A Bridge match. I was defending and counterpushing all the time, ended up with 16-7.
A skyhammer with 4-4 was sitting in front of me in the scoreboard. He camped at the EV and gave some ammo.
I understand the intention of the new system, but I think the old system did a better job at rewarding the right people.
Not that i care for xp or my place on the scoreboard, but I think the old scoreboard was a better indication of player skill

(Ardez1) #8

Well the scoreboard hasn’t changed, just the amount of XP rewarded for certain tasks.

While getting kills is certainly important and is most definitely a game changer in the right position - a player only getting kills will not create a win. There needs to be an incentive to perform the objectives or it would just be TDM with a timer in the background. The bonus XP is purely to get players moving the objective/defending it.

Because there is ZERO real benefit to XP, I have no issue with the system as it stands. If they develop a system that gives out cases based on XP or something stupid like that then I would take issue with it. Right now though, if it gets the game moving away from just TDM with side objectives then I am for it.

(Viquel) #9

and your problem being? He made the game more enjoyable for up to 7 other people by providing almost endless ammo. 4/4 doesn’t say how many assists he got - if you aren’t kill-whoring, you don’t care who gets the last hit - maybe he was finishing husks and tossing ammo, hitting enemies on opportunity and trying to stay alive while using the cooldowns.

If you gib your targets, you’re useful - but you certainly know those Aura/Skyhammer chargers that kill 3 enemies, die far away from everyone else, then the opponent medic comes along and rezzes all three without any hurry. With some bad luck, a medic on your team gets carried away and tries to recover the idiot behind the lines - and dies in the middle of nowhere as well. While he’s being dead and useless, nobody else is dropping health and you get overrun.

Guess who is the first one complaining? The idiot with the 20-7 who didn’t properly kill a single one of those 20.

Not saying that you are that guy in the picture I painted, but I think many of use can relate to it.

If you want rewards for K/D skill, Execution mode sounds like what you’re after. Complaining about the sole thing that give PUG games structure is not cool.

(Gi.Am) #10

Hmm comparing the old to the new system? honestly I don’t know/care really while I do liked the Battlesense xp message (battlesense just sounds cool). It was indeed bad communicated (never knew what it was, always wondered).

Personaly I think as long as every merc gets equally rewarded for playing his/her role and constributing to the team, wether it’s by doing objectives or playing TDM in the enemies spawn area :wink: (or atleast infront of the objective and not behind it)
the system is fine no matter what.

That said I wouldn’t mind a unranked scoreboard that just lists the player alphabetical (or based on the time they joined) and showed stuff like K/D/A (some mercs hardly ever get kills but rake in the assists) amount of C4 placing/defuse, EV repair/destruction, revives/help ups.

Side note technicaly Ardez you do get more cases based on XP. Match XP directly fuels LVL. XP and every level up you get a Bonus case. But I think that is fine (The bonus case contains a Lead card: worst weapon for the merc you don’t play ).

(Ardez1) #11

Yes, I will be getting my next case 3-4 million XP from now… sooooo many cases dropping for me because of xp… lol. You can quickly get about 7-8 cases based on XP. More after that takes a lot of time.

(riptide) #12

That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.

(Ardez1) #13

[quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.

(Humbug) #14

[quote=“Ardez;19680”][quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.

(Ardez1) #15

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.[/quote]

Yes, but there were still tanks to repair and escort as well as explosives that needed to be planted and protected. There were delivery objectives as well.

Fun is a matter of perspective. Some people had more fun protecting/assaulting a plant than capturing a flag that would flip back and forth constantly during the fight.

(Humbug) #16

[quote=“Ardez;19689”][quote=“Humbug;19683”]

[quote=“Ardez;19680”][quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.[/quote]

Yes, but there were still tanks to repair and escort as well as explosives that needed to be planted and protected. There were delivery objectives as well.

Fun is a matter of perspective. Some people had more fun protecting/assaulting a plant than capturing a flag that would flip back and forth constantly during the fight.[/quote]

Oh man i LOVED that flipping back and forth
somehow random but still skillfull, really thrilling and exciting, very rewarding but also unforgiving. PERFECT MECHANIC

Delivering in ET was 1000 times better than in DB, because everything was instant and you were able to shoot

Tanks in ET were very different, because moving them was only contested at certain points like tank barriers.

The planting objectives are fine, but i hate the lemming defuse in DB

(Ardez1) #17

[quote=“Humbug;19694”][quote=“Ardez;19689”][quote=“Humbug;19683”]

[quote=“Ardez;19680”][quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.[/quote]

Yes, but there were still tanks to repair and escort as well as explosives that needed to be planted and protected. There were delivery objectives as well.

Fun is a matter of perspective. Some people had more fun protecting/assaulting a plant than capturing a flag that would flip back and forth constantly during the fight.[/quote]

Oh man i LOVED that flipping back and forth
somehow random but still skillfull, really thrilling and exciting, very rewarding but also unforgiving. PERFECT MECHANIC

Delivering in ET was 1000 times better than in DB, because everything was instant and you were able to shoot

Tanks in ET were very different, because moving them was only contested at certain points like tank barriers.

The planting objectives are fine, but i hate the lemming defuse in DB

[/quote]

Random doesn’t equal competitive. SD is trying to make a comp game here, so that flipping mechanic is less likely to be seen on official maps.

DB is a much faster paced game than ET was, so that is hard to compare. If you recall it was also MUCH easier to defend in ET and camping truly was a legitimate strategy on some maps. Instant yes, but still difficult because of the short TTK and slower base movement speeds.

With the smaller maps the EV needs to be contestable throughout, otherwise things like the barrier on Bridge would become the sticking point of every map. I’d rather not see a barrier on every single map that uses the EV personally, but I would definitely like to see the EV get a solid health boost. Maybe something that requires more than 1 skyhammer strike to kill.

Lemming defuse is directly related to the difficulty to defuse. If the explosive spam was reduced then you might actually only need one person to defuse the C4. Also, every merc can defuse which also increases the lemming train.

(Humbug) #18

[quote=“Ardez;19702”][quote=“Humbug;19694”][quote=“Ardez;19689”][quote=“Humbug;19683”]

[quote=“Ardez;19680”][quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.[/quote]

Yes, but there were still tanks to repair and escort as well as explosives that needed to be planted and protected. There were delivery objectives as well.

Fun is a matter of perspective. Some people had more fun protecting/assaulting a plant than capturing a flag that would flip back and forth constantly during the fight.[/quote]

Oh man i LOVED that flipping back and forth
somehow random but still skillfull, really thrilling and exciting, very rewarding but also unforgiving. PERFECT MECHANIC

Delivering in ET was 1000 times better than in DB, because everything was instant and you were able to shoot

Tanks in ET were very different, because moving them was only contested at certain points like tank barriers.

The planting objectives are fine, but i hate the lemming defuse in DB

[/quote]

Random doesn’t equal competitive. SD is trying to make a comp game here, so that flipping mechanic is less likely to be seen on official maps.

DB is a much faster paced game than ET was, so that is hard to compare. If you recall it was also MUCH easier to defend in ET and camping truly was a legitimate strategy on some maps. Instant yes, but still difficult because of the short TTK and slower base movement speeds.

With the smaller maps the EV needs to be contestable throughout, otherwise things like the barrier on Bridge would become the sticking point of every map. I’d rather not see a barrier on every single map that uses the EV personally, but I would definitely like to see the EV get a solid health boost. Maybe something that requires more than 1 skyhammer strike to kill.

Lemming defuse is directly related to the difficulty to defuse. If the explosive spam was reduced then you might actually only need one person to defuse the C4. Also, every merc can defuse which also increases the lemming train.[/quote]

I said SOMEHOW random, it was only random if you didn’t know their spawntimer already.
And it’s for sure still more skillbased than the time based spawn progression in underground for example.

Still in ET delivering was fun and thrilling and in DB it’s a pain the a… The EV is a pain too, it just isn’t fun. It was no fun in ET too, but it was not a pain at least.
I just think objectives need a rework, they got copied from ET but they’re working different and are no fun compared to ET.
Could of course also be the gamemode not fitting DB.
I don’t know anymore really, but something definitely feels wrong with DB in my opinion

(Ardez1) #19

[quote=“Humbug;19708”][quote=“Ardez;19702”][quote=“Humbug;19694”][quote=“Ardez;19689”][quote=“Humbug;19683”]

[quote=“Ardez;19680”][quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.[/quote]

Yes, but there were still tanks to repair and escort as well as explosives that needed to be planted and protected. There were delivery objectives as well.

Fun is a matter of perspective. Some people had more fun protecting/assaulting a plant than capturing a flag that would flip back and forth constantly during the fight.[/quote]

Oh man i LOVED that flipping back and forth
somehow random but still skillfull, really thrilling and exciting, very rewarding but also unforgiving. PERFECT MECHANIC

Delivering in ET was 1000 times better than in DB, because everything was instant and you were able to shoot

Tanks in ET were very different, because moving them was only contested at certain points like tank barriers.

The planting objectives are fine, but i hate the lemming defuse in DB

[/quote]

Random doesn’t equal competitive. SD is trying to make a comp game here, so that flipping mechanic is less likely to be seen on official maps.

DB is a much faster paced game than ET was, so that is hard to compare. If you recall it was also MUCH easier to defend in ET and camping truly was a legitimate strategy on some maps. Instant yes, but still difficult because of the short TTK and slower base movement speeds.

With the smaller maps the EV needs to be contestable throughout, otherwise things like the barrier on Bridge would become the sticking point of every map. I’d rather not see a barrier on every single map that uses the EV personally, but I would definitely like to see the EV get a solid health boost. Maybe something that requires more than 1 skyhammer strike to kill.

Lemming defuse is directly related to the difficulty to defuse. If the explosive spam was reduced then you might actually only need one person to defuse the C4. Also, every merc can defuse which also increases the lemming train.[/quote]

I said SOMEHOW random, it was only random if you didn’t know their spawntimer already.
And it’s for sure still more skillbased than the time based spawn progression in underground for example.

Still in ET delivering was fun and thrilling and in DB it’s a pain the a… The EV is a pain too, it just isn’t fun. It was no fun in ET too, but it was not a pain at least.
I just think objectives need a rework, they got copied from ET but they’re working different and are no fun compared to ET.
Could of course also be the gamemode not fitting DB.
I don’t know anymore really, but something definitely feels wrong with DB in my opinion

[/quote]

It is the map size and lack of any long range fighting I think.

(Humbug) #20

[quote=“Ardez;19709”][quote=“Humbug;19708”][quote=“Ardez;19702”][quote=“Humbug;19694”][quote=“Ardez;19689”][quote=“Humbug;19683”]

[quote=“Ardez;19680”][quote=“riptide;19677”]That one guy that gets the defuse or return on the objectve only got it because the of the people killing. Funny when bad players return the objective while it’s in the open and right before a spawn. Then get rewarded for it and think they are doing it right.

If you have one guy that is spawn camping/flanking and he gets 3-5 kills a death every couple of spawn waves. He is the reason the team wins more so than anyone else, he gave your team the best odds. Yet under this system he is likely to have a lower score than someone else on his team. Because he didn’t spam give ammo since he would have been in a worse position to help his team.
[/quote]

But if they rewarded equally too many players would want to take that position and go for the kills exclusively which could most definitely trigger a toxic playing environment and remove a lot of the fun.

The role everybody wants to do should always payout less, as it will push more people towards the role that needs to be done.[/quote]

I just think objectives need a rework, everyone should WANT to do them. Repairing the EV or delivering is just annoying and no fun at all.
In ET everyone would have taken a spawnflag or do a docrun, because it was fun, very exciting and thrilling.[/quote]

Yes, but there were still tanks to repair and escort as well as explosives that needed to be planted and protected. There were delivery objectives as well.

Fun is a matter of perspective. Some people had more fun protecting/assaulting a plant than capturing a flag that would flip back and forth constantly during the fight.[/quote]

Oh man i LOVED that flipping back and forth
somehow random but still skillfull, really thrilling and exciting, very rewarding but also unforgiving. PERFECT MECHANIC

Delivering in ET was 1000 times better than in DB, because everything was instant and you were able to shoot

Tanks in ET were very different, because moving them was only contested at certain points like tank barriers.

The planting objectives are fine, but i hate the lemming defuse in DB

[/quote]

Random doesn’t equal competitive. SD is trying to make a comp game here, so that flipping mechanic is less likely to be seen on official maps.

DB is a much faster paced game than ET was, so that is hard to compare. If you recall it was also MUCH easier to defend in ET and camping truly was a legitimate strategy on some maps. Instant yes, but still difficult because of the short TTK and slower base movement speeds.

With the smaller maps the EV needs to be contestable throughout, otherwise things like the barrier on Bridge would become the sticking point of every map. I’d rather not see a barrier on every single map that uses the EV personally, but I would definitely like to see the EV get a solid health boost. Maybe something that requires more than 1 skyhammer strike to kill.

Lemming defuse is directly related to the difficulty to defuse. If the explosive spam was reduced then you might actually only need one person to defuse the C4. Also, every merc can defuse which also increases the lemming train.[/quote]

I said SOMEHOW random, it was only random if you didn’t know their spawntimer already.
And it’s for sure still more skillbased than the time based spawn progression in underground for example.

Still in ET delivering was fun and thrilling and in DB it’s a pain the a… The EV is a pain too, it just isn’t fun. It was no fun in ET too, but it was not a pain at least.
I just think objectives need a rework, they got copied from ET but they’re working different and are no fun compared to ET.
Could of course also be the gamemode not fitting DB.
I don’t know anymore really, but something definitely feels wrong with DB in my opinion

[/quote]

It is the map size and lack of any long range fighting I think.[/quote]

definitely true. I think if we could play on ET maps it would already be a MUCH better game
Like Radar for example! Let’s hope for Dome