New Merc Unlock Model

(pumpkinmeerkat) #1

DB is better with a one merc limit.

Currently this cannot be implemented in pubs since a large portion of the player base only has Skyhammer, Aura, and whatever is on free rotation available. I propose removing free rotation and instead making the default loadout of every merc free. If players want augmented and/or shinier loadouts they would still have to pay $10 or 50,000 credits as they do currently to fully unlock the merc. 8v8 servers could remain free-for-all but all other servers would switch to 5v5 with 1-merc limit. Thoughts?

(tominatorx) #2

A bit difficult isn’t it?

And then I’m not even speaking about the arguments that would be had if there was such a system in place. I could see people ragequitting if they can’t play the character they want.

On top of that, matches would be quite boring imo. One of the most enjoyable things about Dirty Bomb is the different compositions of teams. It keeps the matches varied. If there is a limit of one merc per team, then 5/19 mercs would be on one team. This severily influences the amount of variations you can encounter.

[quote=“pumpkinmeerkat;d-33929”]If players want augmented and/or shinier loadouts they would still have to pay $10 or 50,000 credits as they do currently to fully unlock the merc.
[/quote]

Problem with this is that certain augments are incredibly useful and would make the balance between those that are forced to play a merc they don’t have and those that can play a merc that they have uneven. And who are the ones that usually don’t have all the mercs? The lower lvl players. So you basically give them even more of a disadvantage vs the experienced players.

Think about augments like: “potent packs” and “get up”. As someone who plays a lot as a medic I can tell you that they are really useful. Same goes for some of the other augments. So you are basically making the fight even more oneven between the experienced players and the newer ones.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #3

@tominatorx

I don’t think the average new player prioritizes augments over mercs. It’s pretty easy to tell what’s on free rotation just from the merc selections in the lobby. Having all the default loadouts unlocked would only give new players more choice and encourage them to try different play styles IMO. Nothing would be behind a pay wall more than it already is.

I do think it would need to be explained VERY well to avoid the pay2win moniker, something SD has not done well in the past.

(Press E) #4

Having all default mercs free creates the same issue as Overwatch, where you have a lot of new players who have no idea how to really play the merc, because they didn’t actually work for them and don’t feel the need to get better with them.
Paying more for augment also creates a P2W type system, especially since you can use money to skip it.

I don’t understand what’s really wrong with the current style tbh. Sure it can be a bit of a grind, but that forces players to get used to the mercs they already have.

(tominatorx) #5

[quote=“pumpkinmeerkat;c-218039”] Having all the default loadouts unlocked would only give new players more choice and encourage them to try different play styles IMO. Nothing would be behind a pay wall more than it already is.
[/quote]

I get where you are coming from, but wouldn’t the problem be then that a lot of inexperienced players are going to have to play mercs they don’t know very well? That would make the experienced players really salty I think.

(GatoCommodore) #6

people like angry joe already yell P2W when they see Gacha-like things in game…

hell, i sometimes use vanilla because i dont know which one to pick

(LifeupOmega) #7

Ranked should haveone merc limit and potentially bans, pubs shouldn’t.

(Press E) #8

Imo that would just push more people away from it. A lot of people already avoid friendly fire, another different system wouldn’t really help

(DarkMatterMatt) #9

No, there should be no merc limit.

If we’re going to be talking about changing free rotation, I’d like to see private random rotations implemented. Thread about that here.

(BlackboltLW) #10

What about everytime someone unlocked a merc they rewarded with bronze loadout chest special for the merc they unlocked?

(doxjq) #11

Tbh I voted yes, but I really needed a not so sure answer more than an I have a better idea answer.

I would like to see some kind of limit, and I’ve thought about it a lot before, but then I was left with the dilemma of thinking it can’t work because all characters aren’t available to new players, so they couldn’t fill in spots even if they wanted.

I had thought about your idea before though, allowing people to use default versions of mercs, but then I was left with the dilemma of default cards leaving you with no choice of gun, and people wouldn’t be able to play with whatever weapon they wanted to play etc - Like if I’m going to be forced to play a character I don’t like because someone else locked it in, I’m at least going to want to be able to pick the primary weapon on the character I have to use instead.

Then I was thinking the 3-man party we choose before game would have to go, because if you joined a server and locked in a party where all of those characters were in use, you wouldn’t be able to play at all, so all mercs would have to be available all the time like they are in Overwatch.

So yeah I dunno. I’ve always wanted some kind of limit, but I had no idea how to implement it properly. But there are some combinations that always bug me, like Chapel attack when the enemy team has 6-7 Artys/Skyhammers on defense etc, or when the enemy team runs 3-4 Thunders and stuff. So yeah I dunno.

(ImSploosh) #12

I can see where you’re going, but what you propose just wouldn’t work. I’m iffy for a merc limit. I think there should be servers that have this enabled (but it would still be kinda wonky as Dox mentioned because all the mercs in your squad may be in use already).

You also mentioned 5v5 servers? I wouldn’t mind having them, but I enjoy the chaos of 7v7 and 8v8 servers. More 6v6 servers would be nice. I’d like to see 5v5 as well, but I definitely wouldn’t want nearly all of the servers to be 5v5.

(Szakalot) #13

its an interesting idea but it wont happen :

  • its unfair to people who payed good $$$ for mercs
  • it creates an impression of p2w (those assholes with their shiny cards!)
(pumpkinmeerkat) #14

Full disclosure: I don’t expect anything like this to ever happen. In actuality the game is past the beta stage and I doubt anything major will change moving forward.

At this point I think the best shot at better matches would be community servers that would allow for merc limits, bans, etc. CMM has been too long in the making and I seriously doubt it has any chance creating better match balance in a short amount of time given the current player base.

All mercs would need to be available in game OR players would need to lock into a single merc before the match. I would be alright with either but I feel like the three merc squad is part of DB’s identity at this point for better or worse.

I still don’t think a system like this adds any sort of pay wall but I can agree to disagree. P2W cries would absolutely be a concern with or without a proper explanation from SD. Just glad I didn’t pick up any disagrees :blush:

(SnakekillerX) #15

I’d rather play the merc I want to play when I want to play them. Just because someone picked Aura doesn’t mean they are going to be a good medic, and it shouldn’t stop anyone else from picking Aura to pick up that slack.

While yes, I could just pick a different medic to help with, Its just another reason to be annoyed with my team. Kind of a “Get off of Sky Hammer noob, so I can play him better” mentality.

The game is far more interesting and varied by allowing up to any number of the same merc per side. We have few maps as it is, so it is only the engagements in those maps and how they vary that keep it interesting long term.

(XavienX) #16

I think Aura and Skyhammer are fine starting mercs. It’s the free rotation that should be removed and changed into an individual rotation for each person so everyone has random different 3 free mercs to try out.

(bontsa) #17

Pubs? No, its the playground to test out stuff and have your occasional stack-foolery like Revolver Rhinobros etc.

Ranked? I would indeed love to have 1merc limit in place but perhaps in some other type of system than this, as this might result in people coming completely wet-behind-the-ears from pubs to just try out mercs in ranked. We got enough bottomscore recons as it is, allowing people to use all the mercs like this there would just create more. In pubs however that shouldn’t matter at all, its exactly the place people should go to suck and prac basics, then move on.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #18

8v8 would be the place for experimentation. Without a different system or having all mercs unlocked as a barrier to entry into ranked, a 1-merc limit can’t be implemented there either. Overall I think it would be a good idea for the lowest level of play to resemble the highest level of play as much as possible. I don’t understand why the server browser has no 5v5 servers if that is the player count the game is designed for? FF is a more difficult issue to tackle but I still think it would be good to have at least min 20 servers switched to FF on. Shotguns, thunder, explosives, etc. seem much more annoying/unbalanced to new players when mercs are spammed. Free rotation currently compounds this problem.

I don’t think there would be more recons. It seems like Phantom and Vassili are already two of the most common early unlocks as is. If there could only be one per team max I don’t see how that would create more of an issue?

From the stream yesterday it sounds like community servers are only in the planning stage still :’( I was hoping that was one of the exciting things SD has been working on that they can’t talk about yet but apparently not.

(Your worst knifemare.) #19

With a 1 merc limit i can’t bring the fatty army to battle.

Though in ranked areas this is acceptable.

(Teflon Love) #20

I think there are two issues mixed up:

Currently pub servers have to cater to two kinds of crowds: people who want to play seriously in a relaxed way (so ranked is too tense) and people who want to mess around (“melee only!”) or practice a merc they still are inexperienced with. If the mess/practice players could be contained on community servers they would not ruin the game for the serious-relaxed players.

The disadvantages of a one merc rule in pubs have already be elaborated on. What might work though is limiting such a rule to mercs that can easily ruin the game with multiple players (for example Arty and Thunder due being very powerful in certain situation, Vasilli and Phantom because stubborn lowskill players can easily drag down the team beyond repair).

In my experience other mercs don’t really have a negative impact. Having multiple Aura, Sawbones or Phoenix is not uncommon and works pretty well in pubs. Skyhammer, Kira and Stoker have powerful abilities but a long cooldown, so 2 of them should work in most cases. Although having to escort an EV with skilled Arty+Skyhammer+Kira as opponent still would be pretty unfunny, so possibly additionally limiting the EV killer mercs would be useful.

However, turning such rather complex rules in an UI that’s still easy to use and understand for players is a major challenge.