New Medic Style Take The Fun Away?

(tokamak) #101

Well that encourages team-communication. Having a mic will be more important in this game.

(H0RSE) #102

i just meant that when you’ve played the game long enough, you will not have to take your attention away from a fight, and you will not have to put yourself in a disadvantageous position to do a revive. you hear a teammate fall down and it’s just a flick of the mouse and a press of a button to revive them. you may have to take a peek if sound and knowledge of level geometry aren’t enough to tell exactly where the corpse is, but they will be in the vast majority of the cases.

You’re generalizing. “You hear a teammate fall down and it’s just a flick of the mouse and a press of a button to revive them.” As I said earlier, the same philosophy applies to the manual revives - you’re just closer. You’re making it sound like you can be anywhere at any time and still be able to revive anyone - You still need to be close enough to toss the syringe, which isn’t a mile away. I almost exclusively play Medic in class-based games, and seeing how SD handled healing/revives in the past compared to how Brink handles it, te only real difference is how close I am to the body - the same tactics apply. I still need to be smart and know when and who to revive. I still need to avoid being killed. And unlike the old method, I can’t stockpile medkits for players to pickup, so I need to be even more cautious and closer to the action. I really don’t see how all the tactics ad strategy of playing Medic, suddenly goes out the window because the Medic can be a couple feet away from the body to revive, rather than right on top of it.

i’m not sure how i feel about the corpse getting to decide when to wake up, usually the medic has a much better understanding of what is happening in the area, or should have at least.
Who are you to say you know wen the best time is for the player to revive? This sounds more of a control issue or personal preference you have, rather than a legitimate, overall concern to gameplay - “How dare they second guess the Medic’s judgment…Blasphemy!” Even if you did you know when was the best time to revive and the player didn’t do it, it’s not your problem, it’s theirs.

and the medic used to have to find an opening to both revive and wait for the resurrection to happen while not being able to shoot.
I really don’t see what you’re saying here…Revives were instant in ET and QW (except Technicians.) Once you stuck them or defibbed them, they immediately got up. The way Brink does it involves needing to wait, since it takes like 3 seconds for the revive to initiate, after the player presses the button. This in effect, adds a new dynamic to the Medic - keeping the player alive long enough to active the syringe.

i don’t know what the corpse should do, if they are in a place where they can’t be gibbed by any of the enemies at the moment (either because they are otherwise occupied or because of level geometry), they likely can’t be shot at either so they should just revive themselves. and if they are in a place where they can be gibbed by someone on the enemy team, they most likely will be and so should revive themselves. i don’t know when it would be beneficial for the team for them to wait.
You’re looking at it too one-dimensionally. It isn’t just about if it would be beneficial or not to wait. The mechanic as a whole changes how revives are done in these types of games - it puts the downed players fate in his own hands, taking the pressure/blame off the Medic. It also helps stop griefing. You’re assessing it like, “if it doesn’t have a distinct, competitive advantage, then it shouldn’t be in the game.” - Game design isn’t as black and white as that.

As for situations where it’s beneficial to wait - you seem to assume that players are going to make gibbing every corpse they see their number 1 priority. Like if they are in a fire fight, they’re gonna take their eye/aim off of the moving target(s) shooting at them, kill the incapped player, then focus back on the immediate threat. You can’t possibly account for every situation that could arise in the game, and say that waiting to revive yourself would never be a valid choice.

(DarkangelUK) #103

Down to basics, this just sounds like another accusation of “dumbing down for consoles”. Tbh at this point I think anything that differs from ET/ETQW is going to be tagged as such.

(tokamak) #104

Well yes, you can see it as dumbing down, I personally like ‘simplifying’ for consoles. That’s not bad at all, I’m sure it will make the console experience less frustrating. I just really don’t see the need to give PC’s the same treatment.

(potkettleblack) #105

I prefer the term streamlining.
Makes it sound as if im buying a HiFi system.

(BioSnark) #106

The same tactics do not apply.

I can’t have an educated opinion on how well this revive system works at this point but a ranged revive is not the same as melee because the former can be done from cover. Tactically, the onus is on the killer to reposition in order to clear out the medic as opposed to the medic having to advance and enter the same line of fire as his patient.

(Qhullu) #107

i’m just saying flickshots on stationary targets aren’t at all hard with a mouse, and so the actual process of reviving will take about as long as it takes to shoot one bullet in W:ET, no matter what the situation is. of course if the distance you need to do it from is short enough, there’s no real difference, except in W:ET you can’t switch back to your gun during a second or so after a successful revive.

The way Brink does it involves needing to wait, since it takes like 3 seconds for the revive to initiate, after the player presses the button.

are you sure? 3 seconds is practically an eternity in an online fps game. still the medic doesn’t need to wait for anything, the only action they need to do that is out of the ordinary is throw the needle.

You’re looking at it too one-dimensionally. It isn’t just about if it would be beneficial or not to wait. The mechanic as a whole changes how revives are done in these types of games - it puts the downed players fate in his own hands, taking the pressure/blame off the Medic. It also helps stop griefing. You’re assessing it like, “if it doesn’t have a distinct, competitive advantage, then it shouldn’t be in the game.” - Game design isn’t as black and white as that.

As for situations where it’s beneficial to wait - you seem to assume that players are going to make gibbing every corpse they see their number 1 priority. Like if they are in a fire fight, they’re gonna take their eye/aim off of the moving target(s) shooting at them, kill the incapped player, then focus back on the immediate threat. You can’t possibly account for every situation that could arise in the game, and say that waiting to revive yourself would never be a valid choice.

well if i know there’s a corpse who can revive themselves at any time, then of course i will gib them as soon as possible. sure standing enemies are a priority, but i wouldn’t leave the corpse be in peace after everyone else on their team is dead. but then again it may be that we are used to playing with different company. i like to play tongue in cheek but in kind of serious environment, so i’m just used to corpses being gibbed pretty much as soon as possible (if there is a chance they might get revived of course).

why i say “waiting to revive yourself would never be a valid choice.” is because i honestly can’t think of any situations where it would’ve been. and yes i know i don’t know that many things but saying “You can’t possibly account for every situation that could arise in the game” doesn’t really provide me with any more knowledge. (funny thought about five people reviving themselves at the exact same time crossed my mind, the attack of the undead style.)

(tokamak) #108

[QUOTE=potkettleblack;245669]I prefer the term streamlining.
Makes it sound as if im buying a HiFi system.[/QUOTE]

Calibrating is maybe even better, calibrating the gameplay on the accuracy of the controls.

(Senyin) #109

The up close and personal revive, especially the ones that seem impossible to pull off, is what I find fun and a rush about playing a medic.
The close and personal part is kind off important to me and so is the risk it sometimes involves.
Throwing a bunch of needles around doesn’t sound that great …I’ll just have to wait and see.

(Kinjal) #110

I don’t think so. If I remember all right, it is…

ET

Weapons: MP40, Thompson (ammo: 30/0-default, 30/30 – light weapon rank 1)
Colt, Luger (ammo: 8/24 – default, 8/8/24 akimbo- light weapon rank 4).

Grenades: Standard grenade. Amount: 1-default, 2- light weapon rank 2.

1-st ability: syringe (half health revive –default, full health revive – first aid rank 4).
Amount: 10.
Use: Require contact to incapacitated player.

2-nd ability: med pack (+20 hp each).
Amount: energy line (4 bars-default, 5 bars- first aid rank 1).
Use: Drop on surface.

Special ability: none

ETQW

Weapon: Pistol (10/20), Assault rifle (40/40, 40/80) or Shotgun (10/10)
Blaster (unlimited), Lacerator (160, 176) or Nailgun (40, 44)

Grenades: Standard grenade. Amount: 2-default, 3- light weapon rank 2.

1-st ability: Defibrillator (half health revive-default, full health revive – rank 4),strogg syringe (half health revive –default, full health revive – rank 4). Amount: unlimited.
Use: Require contact to incapacitated player.

2-nd ability: Med pack (+25 hp each), amount: energy line (4 bars-default, 5 bars- first aid rank 1).
Stroyent (+18 hp each), amount: 4-default, 5- first aid rank 1
Use: Drop on surface.

Special ability: supply crate, spawn host

Brink

Weapons: any weapon, known assault rifle (30/90) + submachine gun

Grenades: unlimited, flash bang grenades.

1-st ability: On teammate- syringe (full health revive or restore, ranged). Amount: energy line (6 bars)
Use: only on target.

2-nd ability: On yourself- syringe (full health restore). Amount: Same energy line (6 bars)
Use: only on yourself.

Special ability: Lazarus Grenade, self-revive.

Medic has changed.

(Mad Hatter) #111

I just wanted to point out, as a non-long-time medic, that this system isn’t all for your personal enjoyment. Think about it from the perspective of a downed guy too please.

  1. Heavy or Medium Medics won’t always be able to reach their lighter-bodied allies. Letting them toss the revive needles a little ways allows them to revive people they might not have been able to otherwise.

  2. Uh…I’m sure I’ll think of more points later. ( _ _)

(DarkangelUK) #112

I’ll be honest here, at this point I prefer the needle/defibs method of being right over the player and reviving because that’s what I’m used to. I’m not going to hide behind excuses of ‘skill’ and ‘more intuitive’ nonsense… I’m always going to prefer what I’m used to and fight change because it’s only natural. On the other hand, I’m not so ignorant and set in my ways that I’d speak out against something before properly experiencing it. Raise concerns sure, but outright oppose is a bit extreme. Maybe it’ll suck, maybe it’ll be awesome… it’s never been tried before, and we’ll never know if it works or not until then. I will at least give it a chance, and if it fails then i’ll bow humbly to the ‘I told you so’ crowd.

(H0RSE) #113

[QUOTE=Kinjal;245676]I don’t think so. If I remember all right, it is…

[a bunch of stuff…]

Medic has changed.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the way the operate has changed, but the same factors that make a good medic are the same.

  • You still need to know who/when to revive.
  • You still need to be cautious and avoid dying.
  • You still need to play smart.

Comparing it to ET and QW is irrelevant, since 1) the vast differences in Brink (body types, abilities, weapons, etc) are like night and day. 2) QW has asymmetrical teams, and 3) Brink is indeed its own game, and not ET or QW.

I would like to point out some things in your comparisons:

Weapons: any weapon, known assault rifle (30/90) + submachine gun

Since everyone has access to the same weapons (body types aside) what does this matter? If anything, it adds variety and even more strategy to the game, knowing that Every medic isn’t going to have the same exact gun.

Grenades: unlimited, flash bang grenades.

flashbangs are a Soldier ability, not a Medic or even an everyone ability.

1-st ability: On teammate- syringe (full health revive or restore, ranged). Amount: energy line (6 bars)
Use: only on target.

Rahdo mentioned that the length of the energy bars change between body types.

2-nd ability: On yourself- syringe (full health restore). Amount: Same energy line (6 bars)
Use: only on yourself.

Healing yourself costs more than healing teammates.

Special ability: Lazarus Grenade, self-revive.

These are optional.

If only the rest of the forum was as up-front and honest - The “find an excuse other than just being set in my ways and keep comparing Brink to ET and QW philosophy,” is dead as dead.

(Nikto) #114

[QUOTE=BioSnark;245671]The same tactics do not apply.

I can’t have an educated opinion on how well this revive system works at this point but a ranged revive is not the same as melee because the former can be done from cover. Tactically, the onus is on the killer to reposition in order to clear out the medic as opposed to the medic having to advance and enter the same line of fire as his patient.[/QUOTE]

yes, he can revive out of cover, if he’s close enough, but then again, don’t the unlimited(but with added cooldown) grenades make it easy enough to take that medic out once they saw someone revived an enemy from behind some cover? seems balanced out to me

not gibbing bodies is a strategy.
if you can keep the enemy medics away from say, 4non-gibbed players. that leaves them with only 4players until the players on the ground decide to go with the homebase revive. how far would you be able to push them while they have only half the firepower they normally have?

that too is something to be considered.

(H0RSE) #115

I would like to note that the OP’s original post, was discussing the way Brink handles healing and reviving, and his initial concern that it would ruin some of the fun tat comes with playing Medic, so when I speak of “tactics” and “strategy,” I am speaking about healing and reviving and a Medic fulfilling his core role. You guys bringing up weapons stats and gunplay tactics, game comparisons and overall gameplay - let’s try to stay on topic.

(BioSnark) #116

If tactics, or lack thereof, impact fun then it’s on topic. However, the topic itself deals with subjectives.

I have my doubts. Depends on the effectiveness of grenades as well as if the presence/position of the medic is know. Seems like many preconditions for that counter to be effective.

[quote=Nikto;245684]not gibbing bodies is a strategy.
if you can keep the enemy medics away from say, 4non-gibbed players. that leaves them with only 4players until the players on the ground decide to go with the homebase revive. how far would you be able to push them while they have only half the firepower they normally have?

that too is something to be considered.[/quote]
Don’t recall that ever being a factor in ETQW. Course ETQW showed if there were medics near on radar. Maybe Brink is different.

(tokamak) #117

Simply upfront enough to direct the arguments forwarded instead of ignoring them and making indirect passive aggressive snarks like you do now suffices for me.

(Nikto) #118

[QUOTE=BioSnark;245689]I have my doubts. Depends on the effectiveness of grenades as well as if the presence/position of the medic is know. Seems like many preconditions for that counter to be effective.

Don’t recall that ever being a factor in ETQW. Course ETQW showed if there were medics near on radar. Maybe Brink is different.[/QUOTE]

assuming the range(of the revive needle) isn’t large, throwing a grenade behind any cover that is close to the guy who just got revived should make the medic run off, kill him, or make him stay in his position, but with less health than he had before. ofcourse he could heal himself, but then at least he lost some more out of his ability bar.

in a trailer, i believe it was in the reactor map, there weren’t many side routes that i could discern, there were 4-5 bodies on the ground who weren’t gibbed, and it took some time for them to realise the medics couldn’t reach them. if you would watch it, you would see the team who left the bodies alone won because the enemy didn’t have the strength to keep them away. perhaps they would have won anyway, but certainly not as quick and easily as they did

(KAS--Will) #119

I agree and disagree with the new medic style… I liked playing Battlefield 2 (not Bad Company), and reviving teammates, and being the life saver. However, whenever I played as a class I didn’t want to be, and I wanted to change, I’d kill myself and what happens? A friendly medic goes and revives me… or in combat sometimes I don’t want to get up because a tank is keeping it’s sights on me… and a friendly medic comes and resurrects me right when I’m choosing a new load out.

I’m going to miss the gayness of being a medic in games, or the classic feeling of my teammate T-bagging me before going back into combat… but I’m not going to miss it a whole lot… I’m definitely looking forward to the new medical style.

(BioSnark) #120

[quote=Nikto;245731]assuming the range(of the revive needle) isn’t large, throwing a grenade behind any cover that is close to the guy who just got revived should make the medic run off, kill him, or make him stay in his position, but with less health than he had before. ofcourse he could heal himself, but then at least he lost some more out of his ability bar.[/quote]Again, there are a number of preconditions for that to work and with varying success. As I said, I can’t accurately judge if this is a problem or not at this point but if it is altering the throw range or making downed players dramatically less tough from how they were in the early Container City demo would be possible solutions.

They have a timer that they have to wait on before they can respawn.

(If I recall correctly, that demo was played against bots)