New Medic Style Take The Fun Away?

(BioSnark) #261

It’s the difference in control limitations that is relevant. That difference is applicable in either tactical fps or tactical rpg. The difference in genre, itself, is meaningless to this point.

I’ve played baldur’s gate 2 and DA:O. Last bioware game I played was ME2 where the controls and gameplay were designed for the confines of a controller and significant work to maximize the potential of the pc control scheme was not attempted.

As an aside, regarding DA2 development, add to the immediacy of action at the expense of tactical depth. What should I take away from that?

(X-Frame) #262

I was just telling a lot of my friends how unbelievably genius the Medic Revive system is in Brink and am so shocked that no other game (that I know of) allows the Medic to give the downed player to revive himself when he feels it’s safe (if at all) … and then I come on these forums and someone is saying this is a bad system?

(Nail) #263

the complaint is more about the removal of the need for a medic to put himself in harm’s way to do the revive, than the ability to revive yourself

(X-Frame) #264

Yeah, I realized that once I started to read more through the thread - I guess I was just very confused as to why anyone would doubt the system so I sort of … pulled the classic newb mistake and posted without reading the whole thread. Apologies!

I still don’t know very much about this game so discovering these forums a few hours ago should bring me up to speed.

(H0RSE) #265

A lot of text, but also a lot of information -

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=239863&postcount=1
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=239864&postcount=2
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243964&postcount=56

(X-Frame) #266

[QUOTE=H0RSE;247019]A lot of text, but also a lot of information -

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=239863&postcount=1
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=239864&postcount=2
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243964&postcount=56[/QUOTE]

Damn! Thanks!

Going to have to print that out at work to read tomorrow!

(darthmob) #267

[QUOTE=X-Frame;247015]Yeah, I realized that once I started to read more through the thread - I guess I was just very confused as to why anyone would doubt the system so I sort of … pulled the classic newb mistake and posted without reading the whole thread. Apologies![/QUOTE]I wouldn’t expect you to read whole threads around here. Most discussions are like bubble gum that has been chewed on for eight hours straight. Get a bit of the tasty goodness in the beginning, have a look at what’s left of it in the end and you’re good. :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #268

After that it’s straw men all the way down.

(Beermachine) #269

Dug up this thread as I think the OP has an interesting point.

While it’s impossible to judge without seeing how the medic dynamics work in Brink, I can see some obvious things that will definitely lessen the enjoyment of the medic class (my favourite by a mile) for me in certain areas and remove some tactical elements from previous SD titles.

  • Revives being easier makes the medics judgement call on when to risk a revive and when not to an easier decision.
  • Not much point of healing teamplayers in combat due to having to stand next to them for a period of time with a needle out (from what I understand, could be wrong), far to dangerous for enemy target number one. No more ninja medicing around just behind the front lines mixing shooting and throwing packs down for your teammates, better to just always shoot and deal with healing afterwards.
  • No more making stategic strongholds on attack or defence with a stack of medpacks where you team knows they can fall back to when needed.

On the flip side I can see how having abilites linked to pips adds the dynamic of managing your energy better, which seems like an improvement, and giving the downed player the option to revive or not makes perfect sense. Hopefully there will be many more interesting styles of playing a medic that I’m unaware of with the new system, and possibly necessitated the change in the way medics are handled.

Some of the elements (medics sticking to players to heal them) seem somewhat TF2 in style, which personally I find implemented medics in a dreadful way, who wants to play a virtual buff bot in a FPS!

(Humate) #270

No more making stategic strongholds on attack or defence with a stack of medpacks where you team knows they can fall back to when needed.

With prepacking, its done a bit differently. Instead you buff yourself before you enter a fight so that you have more than the default HP available to you. Its a little bit more balanced that way, because the enemy can see your health bar. Where as in say etqw - you can conceal the packs quite easily, giving you a massive advantage.

(brbrbr) #271

enemy can see HB ? why? how ?[floating above head, like in Diablo ? 8-]
will it have exact numbers of dmmg like in comix/13 game like “whooosh !!! you just got 38 flamethrower dammage![ouch !]” ? :slight_smile:

(brbrbr) #272

[QUOTE=jazevec;246948]They may be so far into the console land it will be cheaper to bundle a console controller with each PC version copy.

Seriously, to say that console players are not dumber than pc players is horribly naive. Console developers (and many players) often pride themselves for setting the entry barrier very low. What do you get when you let everyone in ? No, not everyone who plays games on consoles is stupid, but more of them are. Similarly, there are (and will be) stupid PC players, but they’re less common as long as PC’s are harder to use. That’s the price they pay for making consoles idiot-proof.

In other words:
Not everyone who plays Checkers is stupid, but Chess players are likely to be smarter. That’s because Chess is a more demanding game.

Generally, people who do more intellectually demanding things are more intelligent, because 1) it’s an exercise 2) it filters out the people who can’t get better.[/QUOTE]

consumer electronics for gaming - from cellphones to trains[with built-in gaming devices] are ENTERIELY different World in both L&F/Art/Interface[input-output HW] and gaming/timing pressure on both consumer usage and development/production ROI.
or, in short, PC was 50x times supriour, but consumer electronics gaming, fill the gaps[ie you don’t take you netbook or PC anywhere. not yet] in market and thus, can provide considerable income.
facts: majority of “console gamers” was also … PC users :slight_smile:
in West countries, proportions[per family]was about ~ 2.5x.
and thats reasonable/explainable. by common sense.

(crazyfoolish) #273

[QUOTE=jazevec;246957]I didn’t mean it’s only because PC games can be more demanding (although this is certainly the case). It’s also because people who own PC’s are likely to do other things with them, too. Like using a word processor (not that it’s very “intellectual” but it implies literacy), searching the net for information (or the right sort of porn), using PC’s for “work”. Some of things which are seen like downsides (installing software updates, dealing with crashes, adding extra hardware, installing or configuring software) are also challenges. Every little bit counts. These things can scare console players away.

Try writing a letter with a console controller. No, consoles are designed to be used from a couch, like TV. Who is likely to be smarter: someone who can use a TV, or a computer ?[/QUOTE]

It’s funny how you list the ability to look up the right kind of porn as a sign of intelligence.

(tokamak) #274

I still think there needs to be some kind of a reward for close-up revives. Just like with the proximity hacking being more efficient when up close.

The best way to do this would be to give a delay in being able to revive yourself, the further the throw, the longer the delay. ‘Handing’ over a revive up close makes the revive instantly available. It would simulate the prone player fumbling harder to catch throws.

(Ragoo) #275

[QUOTE=tokamak;268627]
The best way to do this would be to give a delay in being able to revive yourself, the further the throw, the longer the delay.[/QUOTE]

This is already in the game. They call it “needle flying delay” and it actually makes it so that there is a delay of about 2 milliseconds when you throw at maximum range compared to handing it over when you are right next to somebody… … :stuck_out_tongue:

(tokamak) #276

Yeah… good point.

(Beermachine) #277

Hmm, not sure how balance comes into play, given that medics on the enemy team can do exactly the same thing. The only time I can think of is say 1v1’s medic vs another class where the medic has had the time to stashed a pile under his feet, but given that teamplay should annihilate solo rambo medics everytime anyway… I guess with the new system of body types and no weapon restrictions for classes it does makes sense though.

With prepacking, choosing the right locations where you team could see and most benefit from them at the frontlines but also making sure they were not easily captured by the enemy was a strategic and dynamic thing as the frontlines quickly changed.

With a buff system it seems somewhat automatic, spawn, buff all your teammates and then buff yourself end of story, repeat after battles when needed, with less tactical decisions to be made. A bit like spawning as a field ops in ET, automatically hand out ammo to everyone else at the start and not yourself, with the only real tactical choice to be made of whether to save enough to regen to allow for an airstrike / artillery when you reach the front.

Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an unlockable medic crate that can be placed ability, similar to ETQW’s supply crates, bringing this dynamic back in a different way, just more restricted (which has it’s pro’s / con’s and balancing issues).

(Jess Alon) #278

I think it’s hilarious how whenever you see a classic game mechanic implemented differently (for balance) lots of people get bent out of shape.

I like the throw a syringe ability. It gives me options as a medic and I don’t have to worry about the other team downing my teammates and then camping out to gun me down when I come to save my friend because I can be more creative about how I choose to save them. If I see some dudes camping on my downed buddy and there’s some high ground nearby I could throw the syringe down to him and start shooting at them and turn their cheap tactics around on them thus forcing them to find a less crappy way to play the game making it a more enjoyable experience.