[New idea] MapPlotter - yes or no?

(Flippy) #1

Hi,

I was bored and browsing for something to do, and I decided to try and make a very quick painting application. That gave me an idea, an idea for a new application I might try to make for you lot…

The idea is basically an application that helps you plot (draw, plan, layout) your map in the making. The plan is that it basically becomes a “dumbed down” version of Photoshop, designed for W:ET (or possibly other games) mapping. Of course, I haven’t got the programming skills to make something that even comes remotely close to Photoshop, but I feel I might still get close enough for most purposes.

The ideas I had are for the most basic things:

  • Multidocument interface allowing you to view and create multiple images at the same time.
  • A grid that allows you to draw straight lines easily (most map buildings consist of straight lines, no?)
  • Interface similar to ETScript, a professional looking interface capable of docking windows, etc.

And the ideas / tools suited for W:ET for example:

  • ‘Templates’ you can drop right onto your drawing (such as spawn point markers, objectives, command posts, etc)
  • Adding labels to certain ‘layers’ of objects that move around with the object when you move it.
  • Ability to create different layers of your drawing, such as map geometry, buildings, terrain, objectives, all in a separate layer, allowing you to view/hide layers.
  • … Possibly more?

Now a question… Do you think this is a good idea? Would you use it? I don’t map anymore so I honestly couldn’t tell… When I did map however I occasionally used Photoshop to draw some things out, but I always felt drawing it quickly on paper was easier, mainly because I found it hard to draw things like objectives and spawnpoints in photoshop quickly. In that case, a tool like this, where you can just drag and drop the templates would come in handy!

I am probably going to try it out regardless of what you think, as I think it’s a neat project; I’ve never done any drawing program before, and I am also planning to try it in C#.NET instead of my usual VB.NET language. But if you like the idea and there is enthusiasm for it I can try to make something good out of it instead of some crappy test program :wink:

So what do you think?

(ailmanki) #2

This might be interesting, but it needs the ability Collaborative Online editing.
So that people might join some channel, and discuss a map…

I also thought once about map planning, but it seems not really appealing to anyone :smiley:
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15520

Maybe a pdf to print, where you can cut out all the symbols?

(IndyJones) #3

i liked the idea, but i wouldn’t use it… so i voted for no :stuck_out_tongue:

(dwe_flame) #4

could be a good idea,

but than again, i ask myself will i use it ?

i think this will totally depend on the user friendly stuff it can be made to.
but i think, if it is posseble importing templates (maybe auto generating prefab script files from out of the map, so you dont have to bother anymore checking if you set every name correct) it could be of good use i think :slight_smile:

(Diego) #5

For just drawing things out to get a rough idea what I want, I usually just use paper. And then when I want to get more accurate with building layout, I’ll use photoshop and screen grabs from top view in radient. I think to make the tool really useful, it would need to be more vector based, than a paint program.

I guess I’m thiking about something that is kind of a 2d hybrid between radient and photoshop. I like the idea of having templates. You could have a variety of shapes that can be used to define the outline of your buildings. But the shapes outline would be defined by point coordinates rather than colored pixels. You can drag and drop the template shapes into the workspace which would have a 2D grid that you can snap the shapes to. The mapper should have the ability to make custom shapes and save them to the templates.

Each shape will be its own “layer”. And then you can dynamically control the “fill” and “stroke” colors of the shape as well as how thick the outline will be. Controlling the thickness of the outline would be like controlling how thick your walls would be. Or perhaps this can just be a “shape within a shape” with the inner shape offset in size and color to represent the interior. If possible, several shapes primitives could be merged into one shape.

The mapper would also need the ability to draw out custom shapes by plotting points and closing the shape. Snap-to-Grid and the ability to edit the points is essential. Also, controlling the types of curves drawn between the points would be usefull. So the curves could be changed from linear, to b-spline, to bezier. A curve that is not closed would be considered a “path” with only the “stroke” parameter available. This can be used to plot out attack routes, rivers, etc.

One idea I have that I think would be extremely useful, is the ability to have the tool calculate Vis portals. If we treat the work space as the “void” in radient, then every time you place a shape into the void, the tool would break the void up into regions. So, placing a square shape into the center of the void, would break it up into 9 regions that run parallel to the edges of the shape. Also, the ability to add a default “blocksize” to the viz will be helpful to see how that might affect the vis data. I don’t think this feature has to be 100% accurate to what we would get from ET. But it would give us a rough idea of how the portals are divided so we can optimize our maps for framerate. The Vis feature could be turned off so that it doesn’t calculate with every single shape placed.

So each shape would contain these properties:

fill color
stroke color
border thickness
detail/structural/Hint (Added hint in case we want to add a shape that simply breaks up the vis regions)

I really think the ability to visualize our vis data without opening ET or radient and displaying the portals would be the single most useful ability. Curved shapes made with bezier or b-spline points would automatically be considered detail shapes.

The ability to use text and import images would be essential. You can have a collection of icon templates for placing the objectives on the map, or other nodes that should highlight points of interest in the map. The mapper could create new ones for himself. The ability to do some rudimentary pixel painted layers would probably be helpful, but I wouldn’t miss it if it wasn’t there.

Finally, I think if these objective nodes could contain text information that might give details about a specific area or objective. You could roll your mouse over the objective and a pop-up will display the information for you.

I think such a tool would make mapper collaborations much easier. The file can also be saved in ascii format like a .map file so it would be easy to text edit. However, since I’m not a programmer, I have no idea if this kind of tool is what you had in mind. Something like this, I would definitely use.

(Berzerkr) #6

How about a “Command Map Plotter”?

Schaffer made once very good tutorials how to create a decent command map, but it’s still very hard for mappers to make a command map that looks like the ones of the stock maps.

http://schaffer.game-host.org

(Nail) #7

I like it, any tool that helps beginning and experienced mappers is a plus to the community, if the tools being brought forth recently help new mappers stick with their maps or help spark new mappers, I say go for it, I’ll host them for sure, I’d like them to become part of our sites new mapping resource section as well as tutorials and prefabs

(th0rn3) #8

Maybe add something like “chief architect”, where you can design buildings?

(Pegazus) #9

I like the idea, but my ideas usualy get drawn on paper and written in a document.
After that, i draw it out on photoshop.

But still good idea

@Th0rn3
You might want to try out Google SketchUp to design buildings, houses, etc.

(DerSaidin) #10

I don’t see any advantage to doing it on paper, or blocking the map in radiant.

As Berzerkr said, command maps are difficult.

(Pegazus) #11

Command maps are easy, just time consuming.


2-3 hour work.
Edit: This is an older command map, just in case.

I might write a tutorial on how to easily make command maps in photoshop, hand made.

(-SSF-Sage) #12

Edited it for you :smiley:

Back to topic:

I really love the idea (original one). That might be the best idea for a game dev tool for ages! I’d definetly use it if it comes out as it sounds and is simple enough and handy. I have had my own template nodes for spawns etc. (different coloured dots) and have had them listed in the plan.

A possibility of adding your own template nodes would be great too, it would made it suitable for most fps games then. And if it’s easy to add, the program could get to be more popular.

(Flippy) #13

Well I tried some things and unfortunately, I don’t think I can do it :frowning:
I can do basic drawing, but not nearly enough to come up with something that people would actually use.

I might be able to use Microsoft Visio, and embed that into my application (very vague idea), so you can use the Visio interface (if you’re familiar with it?). I am not sure how much things I can add to that… Of course, one very VERY big dependency would be that you need the same version as Microsoft Visio… So I think this idea is out for now :frowning:

I’m still a little bored though :tongue: so if anyone has any other idea for an application, I’d love to hear it!

(shagileo) #14

oh- what a pitty :frowning:

ah well

(kamikazee) #15

Ugh - Visio may be decent by itself, but it is nothing without a good bit of customized stencils. And those might take a little while to develop if you want them to allow a lot of customization.

Also, you might want to look at Mono if you would start another project. It allows .NET applications to run both on windows and Linux unchanged. The only impediment is that you shouldn’t use any of the standard Microsoft libraries directly but call the Mono wrappers instead.

EDIT: On another note: I sometimes use Google’s SketchUp. It features easy 3D manipulation tools and can be used for quick prototyping.

(dwe_flame) #16

[QUOTE=Berzerkr;191274]How about a “Command Map Plotter”?

Schaffer made once very good tutorials how to create a decent command map, but it’s still very hard for mappers to make a command map that looks like the ones of the stock maps.

http://schaffer.game-host.org[/QUOTE]

too bad most downloads and other links don’t seem to work :frowning:

like the saint pack, maybe someone else still has it for hosting ?

(aaa4) #17

too bad this got stuck :frowning:

i really love the idea. not because it would be useful to draw your own mapplans, it would be a somewhat common tool mappers would use when they do community mapping, very reduced and specialized.

it would invite me much more if someone in a forum like this says “hey lets do a map and because we have to do concept drawings first download the ET MapPlotter” than someone pointing you to microsoft visio or tools like dia etc…

i think this way great maps could be done, because you have a good ability to create the concept before, which is almost the most important thing when it comes to mapping. with an own filesystem where you dont upload images, but whole files, and where you can delete parts and stuff. similar to painting programms, but as i said it would be much better to have a common tool.

(eiM) #18

let it export a ready constructed map with entities :stuck_out_tongue: then I’ll use it

(stealth6) #19

fyi this thread is a year old

(valkyr) #20

Something like AutoCAD would probably be just as useful…

anyway, all that talk of drawing maps on paper reminded me of something I saw a while ago… Some guy had written a tool to take drawings and turn them into Quake maps. So you’d draw the outline of the map on paper, with doors and different entities being signified by different colours. Then you’d scan the drawing and the tool he’d written would turn the image into a .map file.