need minimally modified goldrush map for competition HELP :)

(RivrStyx) #41

reyalP… if you haven’t seen my version then don’t comment on all being shit. I didn’t rip shit off… i know its goldrush… i changed it for my reasons stated. If to minimal (as h3rf wants or maybe you think is ok) it will help nothing as far as long match times…but shouldn’t go over board either…which i tried not to do and keep the elements in goldrush intack. I’ve seen the other versions which scared me… but don’t lump me in with them unless you’ve looked at it and tried it. I’m open for suggestions also to get the best sw mod of it there can be without destroying a great map. I’m not trying to rip off anyone but make times more reasonable for SW and faster as SW should be. I didn’t just start making changes without any thought on what i was going to do. I don’t do that and no one that has tested it has said its a half asses done modification for it yet as they have with the others. I think my past maps show i don’t do things half assed.

carry on

(NullZilla) #42

i’m not trying to rip off anyone either i just made my goldrush mod as a private map for my clan not my fault it shows up to the public

(SCDS_reyalP) #43

Sorry, I was referring to the RTCW map conversions, a number of which can only be described as shit. Some of them are also quite good, but the point is, that accepting the idea that it is OK to modify and redistribute original maps has lead to us having a whole bunch of variations of the same maps, many of them sub-standard.

I didn’t rip shit off… i know its goldrush…

:banana:

i changed it for my reasons stated. If to minimal (as h3rf wants or maybe you think is ok) it will help nothing as far as long match times…

The fact is you made dramatic changes to the map. That’s fine, it might be a good map in its own right, but it isn’t just a slightly more offensive goldrush.

(RivrStyx) #44

I understand what your saying… and i really am against modifying existing maps, mappers maps without permission, or porting maps into ET… just was worried we’d end up in leagues with a script that did away with the tank and truck run completely with the bank doors being dynomitable…or even worse playing something like super goldrush. :). If to offensively biased things can be changed with feedback when that time comes. Its just a base to start from.

(Java.Lang) #45

There are mappers here that are obviously disappointed with the competitive communities lack of interest in their time and hard work. I agree with the statement that competitive players are lazy-They can also be narrow-minded.

If all you want is a map like Supply Depot, one that is pathetically simple, something you can learn… PM me and I will make you a big box with a wall in the middle, and you guys can go at it.

There is no argument you could make to discount some great customs out there (even ones like Venice mentioned specifically) that would make anyone here believe the competitive community, as a whole, puts forth effort in encouraging new maps, and learning new maps.

This topic is further proof. A thread like this is just salt in the wounds.

(RivrStyx) #46

Well since your not mapping with SW competition in mind… your comments mean nothing. Pubbing for fun…and competition are 2 different things. Theres alot of good maps with campaign play in mind out there and would work fine on the campaign ladder (theres some being used as a matter of fact)… not many with stopwatch in mind. Again…i’m not sure some know the difference. Maps are being tested and venice was modified for sw competition (venice_rc2). Some maps are fun as hell with 20 or more players… thats just doesn’t cut it for comp play. I guess you’d have to be a comp player to understand… thats not to say alot of comp players aren’t to picky for those that are making maps for comp play and some comp players are to over tweaked to care about looks… but thats not all comp guys. Alot of comp players play custom maps on pubs and enjoy them… doesn’t mean they’d be enjoyable in competition.
You may think your maps are the best thing to hit ET and everyone should be running to play them… thats just not the case. I’ve made plenty of maps but i didn’t gear them towards comp play and was my choice… i can live with them not wanting to play them in leagues…they weren’t designed for it.
Supply Depot is as simple as Radar or Oasis…etc… not sure what your point is? If you want to spawn forward 3 times and have a 10 objectives along the way or have a map so dark you can’t see shit or the gameflow not expecially flowing…great…should be fun on pubs.

(]UBC[ McNite) #47

I will make you a big box with a wall in the middle, and you guys can go at it

Be careful u will not make it too sophisticated :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

(Java.Lang) #48

Be careful u will not make it too sophisticated

Ha ha, ok, just a box then.

(LaggingTom) #49

Unsolicited plug? Or are you getting paid? :wink:

(RivrStyx) #50

Oh btw h3rf…everyone is not excited about Delivery in comp… but you think your views represent all of comp for some reason. Don’t talk to mappers about a map being successful in comp play when the lighting phase of the compile was left out because “most comp players don’t care”. This is what mappers see which alienates them from helping comp out. Seeing you praise delivery which was done half assed while alot of mappers spend alot of time getting things just right but turned down by comp players isn’t much of an endorsement to come help. Most mappers that are into mapping find this a joke to skip lighting. Thats the way it is whether you understand or not.

As for the mappers… the thing is in league play theres only 6 players to a team… not 10-20 you find on pubs where bigger complicated maps are fine. If a map is to complex with to many routes (which is fine for pubs) a 6 man team is lost trying to cover all the areas to defend the map and strats aren’t possible. Thats comp play like it or not…teams make strats for maps and practice them just like playing a sport. May sound silly to you all huh? Its not like pub play where everyones doing there own thing with maybe a few working together. Comp maps are used in tournments where serious money can be on the line. Players need maps that are defendable and not have so many areas as to make that impossible. Alot of custom maps are made more for looks and to impress then playability. On pubs its not noticed as much with so many players and they are fun…in leagues their a nightmare trying to come up with a strategy.
Comp players need to stop the “this map sucks”… but thats not all players…just that seem to get noticed. Others are looking at and testing maps. Come down off the high horses blaming comp players for not using your maps in competition. Theres reasons alot of maps aren’t used and they don’t have to be boxes unless thats the limiit of your mapping skills. Supply Depot may be ugly but it sure is playable for 6v6. I’m a comp player but i also did Resurrection, Den of Lions, Callfire…etc and did them for looks and pub play… i’m not going to blame comp players for not wanting to use them in competition if not geared that way. Same with Cathedral… its fun for pubbing just not right for comp play and don’t think it was made with competition in mind where teams are 6v6. I see both sides blaming each why custom maps aren’t more widely used when its a little of both sides fault… but at the same time both sides have valid points. Mappers want that extra detail that gets their map noticed and makes players say wow (sometimes at the cost of Frame rate tho)…where comp players care more about the flow and connectivity of a map. I think mappers could still make very detailed maps while having good flow and playability. Just no common ground i guess and both sides knock heads.
If your thing is making pub maps for the masses thats always great and is appreciated …but if you want to make a comp map you might want to sit down and talk to some comp players with open minds. They’re out there :slight_smile:
Again …if you don’t understand comp play then theres no point blaming comp players if your map just doesn’t work and saying i’ll make a box for you all (thats just shows your lack of knowledge in this area). Comp players also need to work more with mappers that are willing to help and stop the “this map sucks shit” which doesn’t exactly make mappers come running. Its a 2 way street.

(Ifurita) #51

\o/

Well said Rivr. Comp players have a lot of legitimate gripes about maps. Routes and timing for example. A 2 second change in travel time isn’t a big thing on pubs, but for comp play it can be the difference between a defender biased stage and an attacker biased stage, which translates into longer match times/full holds and less interesting games.

There are a lot of comp players and leagues out there with open minds who are willing to help, offer feedback, test, etc … you just need to find them. You also need to do your due dilligence and make sure you’re not wasting their time, just like you wouldn’t want them wasting your time.

(blushing_bride) #52

Same with Cathedral… its fun for pubbing just not right for comp play and don’t think it was made with competition in mind where teams are 6v6.

the map was designed with 6v6 competition in mind and has been used in nearly all the important european compeitions this season. Its design was based on ideas generated by experienced clan players and after the first beta it was modified based on the advice of cup admins and many clan players. No offence but i really wish people would play maps properly before making hasty decisions about them.

(Ifurita) #53

meh, still feels largish :wink:

(RivrStyx) #54

Play the map properly?..ok. Well …It was tried out and does seem a bit big for 6v6. No offense but the second parts run route …up past the CP … through the roof area…down the ladder was quite a bit longer then to other way out and when finally getting to the ladder…it was easily camped. I dunno…europe is different then NA i guess in what they want for comp play. NA likes smaller faster maps it seems. Resurrection was used in some Euro tournaments and cups and its quite a bit bigger. Dunno what to say…it was played alot.

(blushing_bride) #55

im having a strong sense of de ja vu.

(Mean Mr. Mustard) #56

im having a strong sense of de ja vu.

/sarcasm that BB will get – and anyone else who has followed the ‘Cathedral feels too big’ threads…

Is it a ‘big’ feeling of de ja vu? :wink:

Does it just ‘feel’ like de ja vu or is it de ja vu? It just ‘feels’ like it to me :wink:

end sarcasm/

I’ve never been a comp player. I don’t understand what comp players want - quite frankly after my experience with them, I’m not sure they know what they want. We tried when Iffy and I were making Rommel to get comp feedback – which did not help in NA at all. Maybe it’s just the NA comp players, but they seem utterly lazy when it comes to new maps. They don’t want to learn the maps, learn new strategies, etc. But yet they complain that they are sick of playing the same maps over and over in comp play – any one else see the irony in this??

So what is their new ‘strategy’??? – modify existing maps (ie. the standard already excepted comp maps) to suit their needs. This way they don’t have to learn new strats or new maps. Shows their laziness once again. I wonder how long they will play the ‘reimagined’ maps before we hear the same ‘we need new maps – these same ones are boring…’

(RivrStyx) #57

Your right … alot of it seems to be laziness and not alot as far as constructive feedback. Seems you get more like …“this map sucks” then i think this would work better comments. It seems to be getting better <sigh>… was alot worse in RTCW.
Cathedral probably should have been scrimmed/played more. Rommel i liked alot also… not sure what happened to it. Probably why I haven’t felt the need to try and make a comp map before and waste my time. Back in RTCW i started a comp map and it turned into Den of Lions for 64 player servers…because i saw the negative comments Menzel was getting and thought why deal with this. Hopfully thats changing because the leagues have 4 pre-season weeks to test/scrim new maps and if a team doesn’t try them they don’t get a vote in deciding. At least that will make the teams have to really learn the maps.
I’m about done a comp map (what i think could be a comp map anyway) but still leary of putting myself through all the BS or being blown off completely. Its gone back and forth between a pub map and comp map a few times. I’ve even had arguements with comp players about a completely different issue where they’ll resort to shit like “why don’t you just go map another shitty map like Resurrection” just to get back at me. Makes me want to help out huh? Do i want to hear “why don’t you try an make another shitty comp map like you did before” if it doesn’t work out. I know what your saying from a mappers POV… it doesn’t seem worth it sometimes. What do they want?..everyone has a different view and hard to figure it out.

(Ifurita) #58

The way I look at it is:

  1. I’ll bend over backwards for specific leagues who have gone out on the limb to run custom maps (not necessarily mine) because it demonstrates the league admins and players are willing to take on some risk and effort to give them a go. Big shout out to the MGL League (New Zealand) and King Jackal. Their input is taken very seriously because it’s based on actual play time and for the most part, has been very constructive - even the flames, which I didn’t think were out of line.

  2. There is a handful of other players who I consistantly go back to for feedback because their feedback tends to be right on target, even if I don’t agree with their suggestions in the beginning. Mappers to cannot adapt are just as bad as players who can’t adapt.

  3. I tend not to go back to the mapping community for feedback, because the feedback tends to be of technical nature (e.g., misaligned textures, z-fighting) but not focusing on the gameplay (e.g., need to reduce travel time from A to B by 2 seconds as that will significantly change the offensive dynamic of that phase)

That will be all :wink:

(RivrStyx) #59

Holy crap… i was owned by a turkey. I will never look at one of those birds again :disgust:

(Oxygen - o2) #60

then why do you want a slightly modified goldrush?

seriously bitch, use a custom map, do you know how much work mappers put in to make maps, that retards like you flush down the toilet!

you want a map that makes you look good you selfish bitch, you had to learn goldrush, learn a custom map, i reccommend trying steelplant or MLB_Temple, or MLB_DayBreak, but sorry i forgot, you might look less 1337 playing a different map, you would be mocked for life :frowning: boo fucking hoo :eek3: just the thought of camping in a different position than the corner where the tank exits send shivers down your spine, well idiot, guess what?

NOBODY GIVES A CRAP

i dont make competition maps, you know why? because of people like you, cant be arsed to change the routine to play a normal fucking map, i swear, if i met someone in real life like you, id punch them :bash:

BTW you say supply is a good comp map, bullshit, its too biased towards attackers, the truck cant be destroyed! its like setting a mouse against a dragon, of course allies win, ive never seen them lose

so use a custom map, and if you dont, it just proves what inconsiderate cocks you lot of ‘1337’ competition players are

BTW i relise some competition players are not n00b map whoring faggots, but majority are and ffs, you should should start a clan, play custom map, and own these faggots

also mappers, dont make competition maps, otherwise wankers like this shit on your map and then flush!

i beleive my work here is done :chef: