need minimally modified goldrush map for competition HELP :)

(herf) #1

I am looking for 2-3 minimal goldrush modifications:

1)remove the fixed machine gun in the bank courtyard
2)remove the ability to plant mines in the bank courtyard

thats it.

Also if possible, switch the number of golds that have to be put in the truck from 2 to only 1… But thats not as important as the other two. If something isnt possible, or not easily done, I would take only 1 modification of these three.

Thanks for any help you can provide,

H3rf

(]UBC[ McNite) #2

Hmmm… look at this post

http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=10145&sid=c1b2749e727d6dcefc45d1401df42e75

See, this kind of request is a bit illegal.

(herf) #3

Well, let me know when all 5 of those evil mod makers of goldrush get thrown in jail by activision, along with all the “new” map makers who happen to copy map code wholesale for large portions of thier “new” maps.

That isnt gonna happen : )

If anyone could help the competitive ET community I would much appreciate it.

Thanks,

H3rf

(jah) #4

why don’t the competitive ET community help themselves and test custom maps for competition?.. or wait untill bani releases next version of etpro with a custom script for goldrush like fueldump or battery?..

i’m running an ET league and we’ve got 2 new custom maps that we tested if they were suitable for competition… and it wasn’t that hard to test them… that’s way better of just ‘destroying’ others people work (and disregarding copyrights).

tklots.

(herf) #5

Hello,

Hey guys, I am a competitive ET player, heh, perhaps I fit reyalp’s prima donna description : )

Anyway, I couldnt code jack : ) so I cant really discuss with you any issues of map making and what technically goes into it. But perhaps I could give you some insight into what at least one competitive ET player thinks in terms of maps. Keep in mind I am a simplistic prima donna, so most of this is gonna be obvious : )

1)Maps to be workable in competitive should have a couple qualities
-stages where the offense can after a 3-7 spawn waves will overcome the defense
-there should be chokepoints where defenses can be set up, ie, one wave if it gets lucky shouldnt be able to crush a defense oftentimes.
-Maps should NOT have defensive stages which are basically lockdowns (goldrush suffers from a bit of this at last stage)
Basically, the map should have a nice flow to it, and is offensively biased a bit so things keep moving.

  1. Figuring out what maps, at top levels of play like a top 5 clan vs a top five clan, truly have those qualties takes lots of work and time.
    -first members of the clan have to play the map, get a feel for it just in terms of learning layout so they can PUB it at a high level.
    -then technical aspects of play (AS, art strike spots-ie places where u can hide the smoke and reproducibly get big kills, panzer spots, riflenade spots, crossfire spots, possible fix mg, mortar spots, etc. etc.)
    -then develope strats for the map, ie try to make a defensive LOCKDOWN of the map, figure out how many stages defense will have, how to flex, when to fallback etc etc. Somewhat time consuming stuff.

3)players are a bit LAZY perhaps, or maybe just dont like to waste time, depending one how one looks at it.
-if I encounter a map like cathedral or venice, thats not very easy to rapidly learn just PUBBING it, well I am discinclined to take the time to see if its really going to be any good at top levels of play if I dont rapidly ENJOY pubbing it. Those maps that take a lot of WORK just to pub at a decent level, they arent gonna make it readily. If I have to study something I am less likely to enjoy it, the more complicated, the more work for us prima donnas.

4)Qualites that make new maps likely to be accepted (supply depot, deliver are Prime examples here)
-They are easy to understand
-they are fun to pub
-they are “easy” to strat for, ie anyone could come up with a strat for supply depot, whereas in some of these maps, hmmmm, where to start?

Unlike venice and cathedral, when I played supply depot, I got it right off the bat, its not complicated, ditto delivery. Both are fun, have great flow, and are "cap"able maps. Supply depot is a done deal, its a competive map end of story. I eagerly await deliveries trial in competition, but I just think its going to continue to be successful. I can basically “see” the whole delivery map already in my mind, ditto supply depot. Can I see all of venice, hmm, not quite yet, and I have played it in like 2-3 matches already… can I see all of cathedral, nope…

  1. Problems with modifying of a map, ie Goldrush
    -Goldrush is largely well liked as is.
    -Goldrush is a very KNOWN map, I have played tons of matches on goldrush, and I know tons of tricks, I know the ebb and flow of it better than any other map, goldrush I have perhaps 15-20 artillery airstrikes I can do and achieve 4 kills against beta teams for sure, and perhaps the bottom half of alpha teams on a pretty regular basis, and sometimes on the top alpha teams as well, although, its harder to do, as they know the ebbs and flows as well.
    -Hmmmm
    -Goldrush to me is kinda like chess, at one point there was a problem in chess, which they resolved by adding the ability to castle to the game. that was it. Now say instead they had made the change that a queen could hop over a pawn once right at the start… Whoa. Ok, basically take ALL the opening moves of Chess, all the books of them, and CHUCK them out the window. they are history. they are all basically going to be worthless most likely, and even if not, they are ALL going to have to be reexamined closely… Are expert chess players, who have spent years learning that stuff, gonna want to chuck it all away? Nope. Niether do I want to have huge changes to goldrush. Now would a beginner chess player really care about the queen jump pawn rule, probably not, what the heck, the game is STILL fun for him, perhaps even more fun, he has lost nothing…

Where you guys see something like, ah I will move this spawn, move this wall, make a new path, hey cool, no big deal, just run down and shoot like I normally do. Whereas what I see is the dissapearance of 6 of my AS ART tricks, a couple nade tricks gone, ambush points gone, corner camps gone, and area specific smg battle tricks gone. A whole TON of nuances that are gone. What makes the map entertaining, is not just fighting it, its the move counter move stuff that has been developed amongst the top clans on these maps.

To sum imo
-for new maps if you want higher chance of “success”/adaption of map by competitive community keep it easily understandable (aka goldrush, delivery), keep it offensively biased, but defensively holdable for 3-7 spawn waves each stage.
-to mod a well liked map, hmmmm keep it pretty much as is.

Now for pub maps, none of the above applies of course. And you can make a complicated map, it MAY be a great map, and it may, if you could get people to try it, actually become one of the greatest, best liked ET maps of all time, but people are likely not to put effort into learning how great it is unfortunately.

H3rf

(thegnat) #6

THERE YOU GO + HERE TOO

If you want this “slightly” modded Goldrush so much, do it on your own. The modifications aren’t that hard to make.
Delete the misc_mg42 entity, create a new shader for the terrain texture and replace it, edit tthe team_CTF_redflag and modify the script to fit your needs.

As you might have read in the thread, McNite has posted, there are mappers who respect the work of others and don’t touch it - and there are some that don’t respect anything. Obviously there aren’t many people around here, that count to the last group of people.

(herf) #7

We have a couple customs we are testing currently already. Supply depot is a successful custom, Delivery looks to be a successful custom. There are a couple others as well.

(herf) #8

Heh,

man, thats like me telling you do do a vasectomy on your own. You could do it, its not hard, but I bet your not a surgeon, I am NOT a programmer, I dont know what a shader or entity is… I mean people… If I could do this on my own, I would have, I have a gut sense its NOT that hard, but for me, I would have to start by looking up in a tech dictionary the terms you cite.

Goofy stuff imo. Now hey man, really, when u want the vasetomy in the future, you COULD do it yourself its not hard, just look it up in a medical procedure book, get some lidocaine, and a bovie or suture, viola!

Now if anyone can give me some help I would trulty greatly appreciate it. My fathers a lawyer, I dont need legal advice either : )

(herf) #9

“If you want this “slightly” modded Goldrush so much, do it on your own.”

Heh, that really blows my mind man, thanks for the helpful comment.

(thegnat) #10

Argh! Another one of this sort.
Maybe you should beg NullZilla to do the modifications, I think you both will like each other.

(herf) #11

heh thegnat,

Dont you see anything slightly moronic about responding to someones request for help by saying, do it yourself? I mean why bother even replying? I guess you are that annoying sort : )

So far I have had legal advice on a programming forumn, and someone telling me to do it myself, oh and the little helpful info about what some coders will and wont do, fascinating stuff thegnat, really fascinating. So please no more legal advice, if I want any, I will ask my father, or perhaps ask on an legal forumn, where someone graciously will link me to a law book and tell me to learn it myself : ) Really, the legal advice wasnt all that bad, I guess the guy is really worried we are all going to jail.

Herf

(thegnat) #12

I wasn’t telling you anything about legal advices. You just don’t understand that there is a moralic aspect for mappers, who actually know how much work, time and creativity is involved in making a map - we respect each others work and would never touch it without the OK from the owner.
But I admit, that its hopeless to try to teach you and some ignorant people respect of others hard work.
I don’t want to turn this thread into a second Goldrush and the EULA thread.
I think that every mapper, that respects the work of others will never touch Goldrush and release a modified version.

Don’t like the MG42? Don’t use it. Add to your “war rules” that its not allowed to be used and that mines are disallowed in the whole area in front of the bank. Whats the problem with that?

(Mean Mr. Mustard) #13

Dont you see anything slightly moronic about responding to someones request for help by saying, do it yourself? I mean why bother even replying? I guess you are that annoying sort : )

I find this quite hypocritical coming from a competitive player. Check all the great feedback the comp community gives custom mappers - such as “map sucks”, “map sucks”, “map sucks”… The majority of the comp community hasn’t lifted a finger to help the mapping community — even though many of us have tried to solicit feedback early and often from the comp players. Does it surprise you that your request is met with disdain?? Also, consider your request – you are bascially slapping mappers in the face by requesting a change to goldrush instead of testing custom maps.

(blushing_bride) #14

yep Mean Mr Mustard is correct. The comp community has been to this forum before. Us mappers responded with enthusiam and put in a lot of hard work to produce maps like cathedral and rommel. What effort does the comp community put it, well i will quote you Herf sir

3)players are a bit LAZY perhaps, or maybe just dont like to waste time, depending one how one looks at it.
-if I encounter a map like cathedral or venice, thats not very easy to rapidly learn just PUBBING it, well I am discinclined to take the time to see if its really going to be any good at top levels of play if I dont rapidly ENJOY pubbing it. Those maps that take a lot of WORK just to pub at a decent level, they arent gonna make it readily. If I have to study something I am less likely to enjoy it, the more complicated, the more work for us prima donnas.

So in other words you cant be bothered, the comp community cant be bothered either. We work hard at your request and every indication you give us is that you can’t be bothered. Why should we be bothered. Why on earth do you think any of us would make some effort for you when you state so clearly that you wont make any effort for us. This conversation has been had a hundred times, until the clan community can show us that they are indeed willing to make some effort of their own to match ours then i see no reason why we should do all the hard work for the benefit of a community that in return will give us nothing but abuse.

(]UBC[ McNite) #15

Now for pub maps, none of the above applies of course. And you can make a complicated map, it MAY be a great map, and it may, if you could get people to try it, actually become one of the greatest, best liked ET maps of all time, but people are likely not to put effort into learning how great it is unfortunately.

So what? If I m going to make a map (and yes I too have asked quite some comp clans for feedback to develop my map along while I was building it) will I put effort in fulfulling the rules for comp map or will I do it for fun on pubs… easy answer: fun on pubs.
Because (and your essay says it too) (read nothing new in it though, there s a sticky about comp map requirements on this forum) I got the feeling that most comp players prefer it VERY SIMPLE and are not willing to give something new a chance or help developing a map.
And when you say Venice is too difficult… then I don’t think you understood it OR can’t deal with a tactically challenging map. The rc2 version offers great tactical gameplay with a nice risk factor (read about that in the comp-map-sticky), that s why it was on rotation on bio and efterlyst… but players on there just didn’t bother to learn it.
Conclusion: comp players have a real bad standing here due to all we experienced.

(ZeAvIs) #16

Herf, you have an incredible talent for making people like you so much. :cool:

(eRRoLfLyNN) #17

I take it, Herf, that none of the many current Goldrush modifications are to your taste? I’m just glad someone’s brought it to our attention that we need yet another mod of this map.

(Nothing personal… :beer:)

(RivrStyx) #18

I still don’t think you’ve given it a chance or even tried this one in a scrim. 12-15 min timelimit. No new routes or tunnels…etc… still goldrush with tank and truck …but time cut down for league play and much faster. I like goldrush also but what you want to do will still make it 20 min rounds. Theres enough versions to choose from and faster caps is whats needed so teams aren’t playing for 2 hrs or more. This version does that and hopefully TWL and CAL will try it out. If not then long ass matches weren’t really a problem and players were bitching just to hear themselves bitch and it should be left as is …or… TWL and CAL are just going to cut out the tank and truck completely and dyno the bank doors. Fun fun. At least this version doesn’t cut out anything while making it faster and reasonable timewise.

UPDATE 10-24-04 http://rivrstyx.trinitygames.com/maps/etmain/sw_goldrushb4.pk3

Changes

  1. Command Post moved to ladder room near bridge. Allies can spawn at CP if allies own the CP only after tank is past tank barrier #1.
  2. Stationary MGs near bank and behind bridge removed.
  3. Tank run ends on bridge and blows Bank doors. Added an outcove/overhang area for tank to turn in to blow Bank doors. (After tank blows Bank doors the next time tank is damaged its no longer repairable as this would slaughter the Axis)
  4. Only one gold crate needs to be secured in truck.
  5. Truck is indestructable. Its been moved to a spot behind the bridge in rear courtyard near ladder room stairs where 2nd tank barrier was. Its runs under the bridge and makes a right turn at island in front of bank and continues on its original track. This will give the Axis a last ditch effort to stop the allies.
  6. The 2nd Tank barrier and 2nd Truck barriers removed. Tank barrier #1 still in place and Truck barrier #1 is where tank barrier #2 was under bridge. (there is a version with the truck barrier under the bridge out but may be ok since allies spawn at ladder room)
  7. Front door to Tank Depot opened slightly for easier access to build tank.
  8. Timelimit shortened to 15 min. (possibly could go to 12… will have to see)
  9. Un-openable door by old stationary MG & old truck spot on side of bank in arch now gets blown out by tank blast also.
  10. Tank and Truck speeded up to 1.25 b_moverscale.
(MeeZ) #19

The best goldrush change imho. Correctly compiled, Correctly Thought out, no stupid corridors, etc.

The only thing I dont like is the truck :frowning:

(RivrStyx) #20

Well during testing some good fights took place in that back courtyard. Since only 1 goldcrate makes for a bit longer run. It was taken sometimes up the stairs and through ladder room or over bridge…or taken up alley and around to truck. Truck can be changed or whatevers needed…thats up to players suggestions and what they want.
Thx btw.