Nades back! (gief alrdy!!)

(Glottis-3D) #41

if one is afraid of nade-spam. this is a matter of amount of nades, not their existense.
make a BIG cooldown.
OR make 1 nade per life
OR make 1 nade + cooldown.

so that everyone would realy spare their nades.

= problem solved.

(tokamak) #42

It’s not the spam. It’s having the ability to resolve a problem that should be reserved for specific combat roles.

Giving everyone the ability to hand out medpacks however minor or limited, won’t lead to spam either, but it will put the medic out of a job.

And, as practical experience in the earlier testing stages as well as with Brink have shown is that putting a grenade on cooldown will only make the player feel compelled to regularly use the grenade. The player feels that otherwise the cooldown would go to waste.

Same goes per life. Players feel like they have to use that grenade at least once before they die, leading to more trivial uses.

Limiting it to merc roles however, poses no such problems. You can make grenades as frequent, lethal or nasty as you want the merc to be powerful without every running into issues of players throwing their grenades just because they feel compelled to do so.

(PixelTwitch) #43

[QUOTE=krokodealer;502818]wrong, i know exactly how bad i am.
i never realy cared too much about accuracy.
but being quick in movement, quick in desision making, surprise and be suprised. thats what i like.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough but still Random and Dynamic are very different things…
I would maybe like to see a nade key in bindings and maybe have a merc with the ability to put down a nade box that each player can take a nade from. but have it on a long recharge :slight_smile: that would be dynamic as you would be able to predict at the same time as using it as a surprise tactic. Nade box merc could = win… Maybe even give it nader as a second ability :slight_smile: however saying that… that would be too much explosions I think. but maybe fragger.

(PixelTwitch) #44

obviously I am talking in very basic terms… you would check to see where everyone is before you do any big plays I would hope.

(Glottis-3D) #45

[QUOTE=tokamak;502820]It’s not the spam. It’s having the ability to resolve a problem that should be reserved for specific combat roles.

Giving everyone the ability to hand out medpacks however minor or limited, won’t lead to spam either, but it will put the medic out of a job.[/QUOTE]
with all due respect. where did medpacks come from? =)
and we do have HP regen, and i dont like it either. and i am not afraid of saying it!! =)

if you say, that only certain mercs can attack certain areas with nades. and those without nades - have to go the other way, then this game need a serious maps redo. i mean serious. and those maps would much more difficult to balance out

(Glottis-3D) #46

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;502821]Fair enough but still Random and Dynamic are very different things…
I would maybe like to see a nade key in bindings and maybe have a merc with the ability to put down a nade box that each player can take a nade from. but have it on a long recharge :slight_smile: that would be dynamic as you would be able to predict at the same time as using it as a surprise tactic. Nade box merc could = win… Maybe even give it nader as a second ability :slight_smile: however saying that… that would be too much explosions I think. but maybe fragger.[/QUOTE]

i somehow feel, that artilery is too much in this game at the moment. But lets remember that we still have a magic ‘increase cooldown’ spell in our book!
Nade-box was there in ETQW. and it was spamfest. properly placed box and properly placed spammer did it very well.

What if a nade could be handled like ammo? 1 nade per merc with proper cooldown.

fragger giving 1 frag grenade
concker giving 1 blind nade

(tokamak) #47

Well don’t you just hate it when you see your team-mates get hurt and go down, or even when you get hurt yourself and there’s nothing you can do about it? The medics on your side aren’t doing your job and you’ve been conkering bad guys all match long. That’s when you really could use a universe medpack distribution for all mercs just in case they find themselves in a situation where they need to heal themselves or their team mates.

(Ashog) #48

pfff, w/o nades I could as well go play TF2…

games w/o nades are castrated by default.

(Kendle) #49

That’s not a valid comparison. It’s close to saying “giving everyone a gun puts the Assault class out of job”.

Grenades shouldn’t be considered a class ability … “there’s a noob camper over there, bring up the guy with the 'nade to flush him out”.

Grenades should be considered an extension of everyone’s fundamental role, which, being an FPS, is to kill bad guys.

  • I have a primary to do most of my killing
  • I have a secondary to get me out of a spot if need be
  • I have a knife for a sneaky backstab if the situation arises
  • I have a 'nade to weed out a dug in camper if the situation arises

By all means give Merc “X” a better 'nade than Merc “Z”, just as some mercs have better guns than other mercs, but give everyone at least one 'nade, IMHO.

(Glottis-3D) #50

nice post by Kendle!

(tokamak) #51

You have no idea how close I am to actually saying that :). The only reason I’m fine with other classes being decent of shooting is that it’s the most general purpose in the game.

Flushing out campers and breaking through chokes however, is not. That’s a specific combat role and it should be reserved for assault mercs only.

(tangoliber) #52

I like restricting the nades to certain characters.

I think that the best way to code camping out of the game is to have high player health, fast movement speed, and a good headshot bonus. That way, someone who isn’t moving is at a disadvantage, even if they got the first shot.

(k0k0nat) #53

[QUOTE=tangoliber;502837]I like restricting the nades to certain characters.

I think that the best way to code camping out of the game is to have high player health, fast movement speed, and a good headshot bonus. That way, someone who isn’t moving is at a disadvantage, even if they got the first shot.[/QUOTE]

Add this to the “we just told this to SD 1 year ago”-list. :smiley:

(Rex) #54

YES bring them back! I’m lazy and skip the explaining today.

(Glottis-3D) #55

good point, however. height advantage cannot be easily opposed/negated only with speed.

(Kendle) #56

[QUOTE=tokamak;502836]The only reason I’m fine with other classes being decent of shooting is that it’s the most general purpose in the game.
[/QUOTE]

I’d suggest killing bad guys is the most general purpose in the game. How you do it, and / or with what weapon, is besides the point. Everyone should have a 'nade in the same way everyone should, and does, have a knife. It’s just another basic, fundamental, combat tool, and everyone having one is what makes this an FPS rather than an RPG.

(PixelTwitch) #57

Personally I feel this discussion is flawed…

Unless we all know WHAT nades are we talking about here?
How will the recharge or is it one per left?
Do we get more from Ammo packs?
Should the ability to give people nades literally be an ability?
Do they recharge over time like general abilities?
How powerful are they?
What range would they have?
Customisable nades?

I understand that nades used to be in the game before I played but talking to people on TS and Skype its a pretty big mix of NOOO NEVER DO IT AGAIN! and YESSS I WANT THEM BACK! Obviously its totally up to Splash Damage however I do think that if you are someone that wants it back at least try and convince/compromise with the people that don’t.

(Kendle) #58

For me personally, I’m talking about a basic grenade for everyone, either one per life or one per ammo pack, with other classes, particularly Soliders, having other more powerful grenades and / or more of them to distinguish.

I’m not sure what the argument against is.

If it’s that 'nades distinguish classes and everyone having one makes the Soldier less useful, then remove global health regen, because that makes the Medic less useful, and remove the ammo bins that SD seem to want to add back into the game, because they make the F/Ops less useful etc.

If it’s that 'nades increase spam, I’d suggest F/Ops are bigger contributors to spam than a few extra 'nades in the game would be. In RTCW not only did everyone have 'nades but the Engineer class had 8 of them (yes, 8!). RTCW wasn’t particularly spammy (at least not as a result of 'nades).

In many games 'nades are an inherent tactical element of the game. Knowing exactly when and where to deploy them, co-ordinating your 'nade with your team-mates etc. is a fundamental mechanic of the game, which is noticeable by it’s absence in DB.

Giving everyone at least one also helps improve the flow of the game because they’re a weapon of last resort when you’re in a situation where your only other option is die or stop moving forward.

(tokamak) #59

Oh I’d be down with a merc that hands out grenades through ammo packs. That’d be fun. That dude can be the Oprah Winfrey of explosives, all cool.

I’m just against every single player starting out with a grenade by default. It won’t lead to spam but it will lead to frivolous use.

Giving everyone at least one also helps improve the flow of the game because they’re a weapon of last resort when you’re in a situation where your only other option is die or stop moving forward.

Yes, precisely. That’s what I hate to see happening. It happened in the earlier stages of the alpha as well as in Brink. Grenades turn into some kind of death-spasm by players trying to squeeze out their last utility before they die.

This is fine for mercs that are specialised in that sense. But it’s not something that should be the main mode for all players.

(tangoliber) #60

[QUOTE=tokamak;502877]Oh I’d be down with a merc that hands out grenades through ammo packs. That’d be fun. That dude can be the Oprah Winfrey of explosives, all cool.
.[/QUOTE]
That really would be cool. I’d also be interested in a player that can build a weapon rack, allowing players to pick up different, or slightly more powerful weaponry.

(Also, a character who can pick up enemy weapons would be cool…but surely too difficult to implement as the game isn’t designed for that.)

Grenades were actually a first resort in Brink…if you had one, you always used it on the next enemy you came across. If only one player in a duel had a grenade, it was a massive advantage.