Nader's spam.

(Glottis-3D) #1

Nader (even 1 in a team) gives too much spam.
5 nades instead of 6, and cooldown increase up to +15%

Splash damage is OK.

ALso i think to make this char more skill-demanding make his nade speed a little bit lower. (but facial damage higher)

(Sun_Sheng) #2

Tbh i think Na der needs the spam because the damage is so awful. I much prefer the ET rifle nađeš where you only got a couple but you could get a nice 4 man if you aimed well. I did that with Nader the other night but it took all 6 nades to do it and a lot less skill. The first kill i thought I’d got all 4 guys but needed the spam because the splash damage was so bad. Better to make it a one shot that requires some skill than a spam shot. More satisfaction for the player, more drama for any specs that might be watching, but same effect

(tokamak) #3

You want Nader to be head-shotting people with her nades for optimal effectiveness? That’s metal.

Anyway, Nader is about area-denial, not about insta-gibbing people with expertly aimed shots.

(Violator) #4

It could do with more damage for a direct hit, but countered with less splash damage. The rifle-nade in ET was great fun and took some skill to aim over long distance (it seems to have more range than Nader’s launcher as well). Nader’s launcher does take a bit of skill to aim through windows etc. at distance. At the end of the day it is more an area-denial weapon in its current form.

(Mustang) #5

What spam?

(Glottis-3D) #6

PLay vs 2 naders.That spam.
COnstant explosions… skilless and effortless, and pretty much brainless.

(tokamak) #7

Inappropriate thoughts.

(Glottis-3D) #8

your opinion. how often do you play vs 2 naders? how much do you like avoiding multiple (10+) nades?

(tokamak) #9

Alright, in all seriousness though, two naders are more visible than say, two auras or two phoenix, but the extend of their power is highly situational. I can imagine it’s a disaster for anyone who wants to keep an EV up but beyond that, meh. Two rhinos seem pretty scary as well. But that’s only because you’re already imagining them back to back holding down two chokes while forgetting that these guys take ages to get anywhere, let alone in the same place at the same time.

(Glottis-3D) #10

we all play the same small maps with ~10 chokepoints at each map, right?
when we get bigger maps, then Nader’s spam wont be sufficient. like in ETQW GL wasnt (even with 9 nades).

what i mean is: countering 2 phoenix or 2 vasiliis or two stokers is an interesting task, but countering unlimited amount of nades from 2 naders (or 3 or 4??) in NOT interesting at all, imho.

(humanbeen) #11

mmm … if nader is not spammy - than nades must be returned to everyone - because it’s not spammy too =))

(tokamak) #12

What if shooting the grenades on the ground or mid air switches the team they damage?

(Glottis-3D) #13

shooting them midair and kicking them away from you would be nice. without switching =)

(humanbeen) #14

what if you will not be able to go through your teammates - i wanna see that queues :smiley:

(Glottis-3D) #15

excuse me, good sir. but i was first in line to the EV…

(Sun_Sheng) #16

[QUOTE=tokamak;510986]You want Nader to be head-shotting people with her nades for optimal effectiveness? That’s metal.

Anyway, Nader is about area-denial, not about insta-gibbing people with expertly aimed shots.[/QUOTE] at the moment she’s about area denial and if that is what is wanted with character then spam and potentially, more spam, is what is required. For me though, I used to enjoy and prefer the ET version where spam was minimised by less shots, but was more effective with skill i:e of course you could spam. Any weapon or character can do that. Multiple reviving med’s or multiple rhinos will give you bring problems. The thing that I enjoyed though was the hours of practice and skill that needed to be learned, to be able to pop a nađe through a window instantly, in the same moment you thought of it. Much like a flick shot with the rail gun in Quake. Popping snipers off the hill in fuel dump from the other end of the map was great fun and took skill. Spamming a choke point is just boring so one or two high damage nades that take skill to use is for me much more preferable than 6 ping pong balls that you have to spam and just be annoying with

(Violator) #17

This spam.

(tokamak) #18

I think that’s an arena shooter attitude. I refuse to define skill as merely ‘that trick you do with your mouse and keys to make others go dead’. Having Nader deny a place on the map at a crucial moment may not kill anyone but it could win you the game more than aiming a shell right between someone’s eyes.

Using that wisely doesn’t just take hours of practice, it will require years of experience and a natural insight for these sort of things.

Currently people are not complaining about Nader topping the K/D charts, they’re complaining about it being difficult to ‘avoid’ her grenades. Like actually being annoyed by the fact that you can’t navigate the map as easily when she’s around.

I think we’re going to see people adapt on a meta-level first, but having people actually getting annoyed her ability to mess up plans is hopeful. At the end of the match it’s not the team that scored the most kills but the team that controlled the objective that wins.

(Sun_Sheng) #19

I think you’re missing my point, which is actually pretty much the same as yours. I’d just rather have 2 nades that are more powerful than 6 that are weak. That way the function remains the same but it takes much more skill, however you wish to define it, to do it with only 2 nades than to just spam 6 nades in the hope that one hits or the other team will be too scared to come out of hiding

(tokamak) #20

Wouldn’t two really powerful grenades just increase the luck factor? I can see tons of lucky unintentional kills coming from that. Especially if you tweak the blast radius to get that same area control back.

Right now Nader IS annoying, in the last couple of games it was more like “#$@& there come the nades again and I was just about to defuse” which is exactly the reaction Nader is suppose to evoke in players.

That’s the right kind of annoying. The WRONG kind of annoying is instant deaths that you don’t see coming or an entire team wiped out because one shell happened to bounce around a corner.