Nader's Martyrdom Proposed Rework

(toolboxRhyme) #1

EDIT: Here’s a TL;DR of the suggestions thrown out to new people reading the thread.

  1. Change Martyrdom to use up Nader’s grenade stacks on death. 0 means no explosion while 5 means the biggest and baddest explosion.

  2. Give Nader a knockback grenade that can be used for nade jumping, propelling herself, or knocking enemies off a point.

And now back to the wall of text that was my first post.

I’m going to be completely honest to start this off. I absolutely abhor Martyrdom as it is right now.

The ability rewards a player for dying, and it rewards them BIG TIME. The explosion radius is so large that a player can be rewarded by pulling their knife out, diving into an enemy team, then immediately pressing F as they go down.

There’s one easy way to fix this, and that’s to remove the “on downed” condition of the ability.

Add a wind up time of say 1.5 seconds to the ability. This allows Nader, with her decent amount of health to get into a bunch of enemies and try a last ditch effort to do some real damage, and you can see it coming.

This adds on to Nader’s already considerable crowd control while also giving her a way to make the enemy focus on her so her team can do some damage, and it stops rewarding players for dying.

I cannot express how much I hate something that rewards a player for dying. I mean, I actually used the word “abhor”.

If anyone has any other ideas to throw out there, I’d love to hear them and discuss.

TL;DR - Get rid of the on death use of Martyrdom and make it a charge up self explosion.

(Sorotia) #2

Trouble is that makes it almost useless except against complete newbs who don’t know any better.

It’s a smart idea to keep some distance from Nader, if she is on her feet or not.

Plus to be honest I’ve never really seen anyone use her as a suicide bomber…

(gg2ez) #3

High sodium diet.

(AggressiveHamster) #4

Just keep your distance from Naders at any time and never try to melee them when they’re downed. It’s really hard to die to Martyrdom if you know to watch out for it, I honestly can’t even recall the last time that I’ve died to it.

It does not need a rework in my opinion as it’s easy to avoid dying to it. In addition to that, adding a wind up time would make it completely useless.

(Amerika) #5

All you need to do is long jump away if you’re near a Nader. I can’t even remember the last time I got hit by Martyrdom.

(toolboxRhyme) #6

I don’t think I made my point well enough, so I’ll say it again.

It’s not that the ability is overpowered or that you can’t dodge it or that it doesn’t work against good players.

The problem with the ability is that it actively REWARDS a player for dying. There’s not even a cooldown on it.

The only other ability that I can think of that is activated WHILE DOWNED is Phoenix’s self revive, and it takes a bit to arm.

Nader’s grenade is instant on being downed and can be used EVERY DEATH.

It’s not even a really interesting ability for the character, and most players I see in quick matches just drop it the moment they go down.

I’d rather see something more interesting, and certainly more interesting than the old suicide bomb ability I threw out as the most obvious replacement.

(gg2ez) #7

[quote=“toolboxRhyme;84081”]I don’t think I made my point well enough, so I’ll say it again.

It’s not that the ability is overpowered or that you can’t dodge it or that it doesn’t work against good players.

The problem with the ability is that it actively REWARDS a player for dying. There’s not even a cooldown on it.

The only other ability that I can think of that is activated WHILE DOWNED is Phoenix’s self revive, and it takes a bit to arm.

Nader’s grenade is instant on being downed and can be used EVERY DEATH.

It’s not even a really interesting ability for the character, and most players I see in quick matches just drop it the moment they go down.

I’d rather see something more interesting, and certainly more interesting than the old suicide bomb ability I threw out as the most obvious replacement.[/quote]

No, I doesn’t reward Nader for dying because it downs her in the process. If anything, it’s punishing you for not watching where you’re walking. Theres nothing with with the ability, I just a simple way of adding to Nader’s area denial ability.

(Eox) #8

[quote=“cherryOctagon;84066”]Trouble is that makes it almost useless except against complete newbs who don’t know any better.

It’s a smart idea to keep some distance from Nader, if she is on her feet or not.

Plus to be honest I’ve never really seen anyone use her as a suicide bomber…[/quote]

Actually, suicide bomber Nader is pretty common in pubs. They are far from being uncounterable though, as long as you don’t panic and think about an exit way, or just go outdoors.

(Procszor) #9

It’s a good idea, but most people are able to get away before the martyrdom sets off, or at least they get out of the “Kill zone.” The only time I’ve ever really seen her used as suicide bomber is when she is out of nades, and an EV needs to be taken down.

(Verticules) #10

My suggestions on the subject:

-Minimal Change: Nader must have a nade off c/d and Martyrdom consumes 1 stack to use.

-Major Change: Nader consumes all nades upon Martyrdom. Each nade increases damage and blast radius. 1 nade would result in an explosion the size of her Active Ability’s.

(LANshark) #11

how many times has this thread been brought up?
from the wiki:

Can only be used when killed, but not finished. As of Fletcher update, the grenade detonation will not be canceled if Nader is finished after the grenade was armed. Martyrdom has a 0.25s arming time, preventing Nader from instantly arming it after being killed. Detonation time of the grenade is 0.9s

there is already a 1.15 second window where enemies can escape the radius; as a further limitation she has to be downed to use the ability. Because of the time to use, the downed prereq and the blast radius the ability is only useful indoors or against people who have no idea what they are doing.

(DMaster2) #12

Nope, marty is fine as it is now. If you die to it 99.9% of the times it’s YOUR fault.

(TheOrangePhantome) #13

I agree with @cannyEdition atleast 95% of thee deaths from martydom are cuz people either forget, dont pay attention or are ina a intense battle and they havent gibed the nader.

But it’s mainly 1 and 2.

(Szakalot) #14

Imo whoever is complaining about martyrdom, doesn’t know how long jump works.

(toolboxRhyme) #15

[quote=“VerticallyObese;84275”]My suggestions on the subject:

-Minimal Change: Nader must have a nade off c/d and Martyrdom consumes 1 stack to use.

-Major Change: Nader consumes all nades upon Martyrdom. Each nade increases damage and blast radius. 1 nade would result in an explosion the size of her Active Ability’s.[/quote]

I like this idea quite a bit.

That’s quite the inane accusation right there. I have no problem long jumping away from a Martyrdom.

My problem still lies in it actively rewarding being downed by giving you a chance to explode yourself and take out either enemy players or deployables.

The idea VerticallyObese threw out would be a very interesting revamp to the ability that would make it a much less boring ability.

(cornJester) #16

I absolutely adore playing with downed Naders. Am I gonna knife you? Nope. Am I going to pretend I will? Absolutely. I love long jumping from Naders.

(watsyurdeal) #17

Best fix imo

Martyrdom instead drops Nader nades when it activates, and it’ll drop however many nades you had when you went down. So if you had 1, then you drop 1 nade, you had 5 you drop 5 and so on. And if you have 0, you can’t use Martyrdom.

(gg2ez) #18

Precisely. If you’re good enough to kill the Nader, you should be good enough not to get hit by a few (stationary) Nades.

If the problem you have with Martyrdom is that it rewards the player for being downed you are terribly incorrect as Nader barely has a 5th of the utility as she does alive. Martyrdom isn’t a reward - it’s an extension of Nader’s ability, if you will, a sacrifice - because as a live Nader, I can get about 5 kills before I die, after I’m downed, I can barely injure a good player with Martyrdom at the cost of being able to be revived. Sure there are certain times where you can Martyrdom kill like 4 people but that’s like a 1 in 100 chance event.

(toolboxRhyme) #19

So you’re all going to keep spouting what is essentially “you’re just bad” and ignore any actual discussion on the ability and what changes could make it fun and useful? Do you have no ideas, or are you guys just skimming and acting like you’re better than everyone else? It’s pretty disrespectful.

With that out of the way, I have another idea to replace Martyrdom that might be fun.

Give her an ability that lets her drop a grenade at her feet that does reduced damage (which can stack with Fail Safe) but has much greater knockback. This lets her grenade jump or knock enemies away from an objective.

Or hell she could even have different types of grenades that her second ability cycles through to give her more utility.

My point still stands that Martyrdom is a boring ability that is only there to reward death if somebody decides to stab your face, or if they’re in the half of the room that you’re in.

EDIT: Changed the grenade drop ability idea.

(watsyurdeal) #20

If you didn’t realize you basically skimmed over my proposal