Nader

[Stynzerman]

Whoa that grenade spamming!

[misspo]

I hate every thing about her The worst is the call of duty martyr thing
But honestly, when i tried to play with it, it was not THAT ez to play. You can’t really spam ALONE because after the 5 first grenade, you have to wait quite a bit to continue.
The principal problem is that nadder is “free” atm to many people use it.
And i would suggest, if the issue continue, to limit the class to 2 peoples max by team.

[Stynzerman]

Good point about class limit that would be an easy fix. I was playing 8 vs 8 and 4 from each team playing nader. It was like a meteor shower

[Amerika]

Yup. Basically SD did exactly the opposite of what I’d like to see and made the game even more spammy by not only giving Nader more nades and less time to regen them but also turned Martyrdom back into the worst mechanic in FPS gaming from my perspective. Oh, and they added another engineer who can spam explosives at the same time.

Not too happy about that decision at all.

[Szakalot]

just dont charge nader to point-blank range. and if she does, you should still have enough time to move away before the martyrdom happens.

[Amerika]

just dont charge nader to point-blank range. and if she does, you should still have enough time to move away before the martyrdom happens.

I know how to deal with it like most people. In fact, I’ll probably die less since I’ll not randomly miss what should have been a knife hit on them due to hurtbox issues the game has on dead opponents. What I don’t like is being in a fight with a couple of people and a Nader dies behind me and my teammate can’t gib them and I die because a Nader died next to me that I didn’t see. That’s pretty random and randomness is not a fun mechanic in a game like this in my viewpoint. Somebody else might love it and giggle every single time and even go suicide constantly just to martyrdom people (what we saw in the past) but it’s just not fun for me.

[Zenity1]

If a Nader dies behind you, that you didn’t see? What if that Nader had knifed you, would that also have been random?

In that situation you died due to lack of situational awareness, not randomness.

Martyrdom is just another game mechanic, nothing more nothing less. It’s a factor you have to take into account, which ultimately rewards skill and experience.

It’s not an amazingly deep game mechanic that i would particularly care about, but it’s also not an issue that is making the game worse in any way.

[vivaciousCanteloupe]

@Amerika, Sorry to say it like this but, if a Nader dies next to you and you don´t see it, that does not have anything to do with “randomness” at all! That have something to do with you not being aware of your surroundings! And it is not the games fault.
(and Zenity said it as well)

And about the spamming of nades, spamming nades is bad! So if anyone spams nades allover that means “they don´t get it” and that means they are noobs you can easily counter play and kill them!

[triteTongs]

They need to revert back so you can knife nader when she’s down. Either that, or give 1 HP when she’s on the ground that way you don’t spend 10 to 20 bullets shooting at dead naders. (or dead people for that matter, but that’s for the revive train thread).

I feel like the nades themselves are so powerful, you don’t have to buff martyrdom for nader to be effective.

Class limit is a bad idea. Doesn’t really fit in this game. I like the idea of class limiting being developed as a feature for comp rulesets (eg. dirty cups 2) or for private servers, but not really for open servers.

[Humbug1]

I like the martyrdom change, I die less to it know, because i know i can’t cancel it.
Also like the other changes, but I think the cooldown reduction for nades was a bit too much

[Glot]

PLayed new Nader specifically.
Feels very strong in pubs.

+I lLike how i have to lead the enemy to direct hit nades. much more demanding. Still doable.
+She is more tough thnx to +10HP, and less fast - not significantly. so that is nicely balanced and feels more logical for Soldier.

-martyrdom is now very easy to use on newcomers. Maybe its because that they are not used to now-uncancel-able nature of it. But they are very angry. Need to wait for a week and see, if its still a problem. But probably less martyrdom radius would help?
-number of Nades should stay on 4. Always keep in mind, that there can be 2-3 naders in a team on EV map. that is not interesting to play, realy

Overal she is Now almost on a par with Fragger/Thunder. To the point that i almost feel my team is weaker when there is no good Nader in it.

[god11]

I don’t like how good Nader is now against EVs and such with the added grenade. Feels like she’s capable of a bit too much.

[Amerika]

[quote=“Zenity;18717”]If a Nader dies behind you, that you didn’t see? What if that Nader had knifed you, would that also have been random?

In that situation you died due to lack of situational awareness, not randomness.

Martyrdom is just another game mechanic, nothing more nothing less. It’s a factor you have to take into account, which ultimately rewards skill and experience.

It’s not an amazingly deep game mechanic that i would particularly care about, but it’s also not an issue that is making the game worse in any way. [/quote]

What are you talking about? There is a 2v2 fight going on. My teammate kills the Nader behind me while I’m shooting the person in front of me. I die due to the Nader using martyrdom before I can react. How is that a hard situation or an uncommon one to come across? It has nothing to do with my situational awareness and everything to do with bad luck and a bad game mechanic.

I played a bunch of pubs last night and teams were half filled or more with Nader due to the buffs she got. There were quite a few suicide Naders too which hadn’t been seen since the pre-steam betas. The spam was unreal and martyrdom accounted for a ton of kills. I was not a fan.

[quote=“vivaciousCanteloupe;18739”]@Amerika, Sorry to say it like this but, if a Nader dies next to you and you don´t see it, that does not have anything to do with “randomness” at all! That have something to do with you not being aware of your surroundings! And it is not the games fault.
(and Zenity said it as well)

And about the spamming of nades, spamming nades is bad! So if anyone spams nades allover that means “they don´t get it” and that means they are noobs you can easily counter play and kill them! :-)[/quote]

Same thing I said to Zenity. It’s a common fight that will happen somewhat often and it has little to do with situational awareness. This isn’t rocket surgery guys. And this is just one example of many.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Amerika;18790”]
What are you talking about? There is a 2v2 fight going on. My teammate kills the Nader behind me while I’m shooting the person in front of me. I die due to the Nader using martyrdom before I can react. [/quote]

It takes almost a full second for it to go off, and if your team mate called out “Nader”, you’d know to stand back a bit.

It’s a) your team mates fault for not calling out something and b) your fault because you should have a reasonable amount of time to get back a bit before rushing ahead.

I really hope comp matchmaking gets improved soon so we can see more stuff like this being resolved with simple teamwork.

[Amerika]

This thread pretty much confirms the state of these boards.

[watsyurdeal]

This thread pretty much confirms the state of these boards.

Or that you take advice people give you as insults, and you lack a counter argument at the moment.

We told you how to deal with it, you complained about randomness, but it’s not random when your team mates are clearly in front of you, can see what you can’t, and don’t make a call.

You can’t blame a merc or call something overpowered just based on that sort of stuff. I fail to see a scenario where a) Nader’s Martyrdom is so strong that everyone needs to use her, or b) that she is so strong that the game stops flowing like it should because of her.

Those are scenarios where I think it’d be fair to call something overpowered or unbalanced. But nothing you’ve said has given any inclination of that. Just “I don’t know how to deal with something I can’t always see”, and in response “then learn to predict or play with people who call things out”.

[Zenity1]

[quote=“Amerika;18790”][quote=“Zenity;18717”]If a Nader dies behind you, that you didn’t see? What if that Nader had knifed you, would that also have been random?

In that situation you died due to lack of situational awareness, not randomness.

Martyrdom is just another game mechanic, nothing more nothing less. It’s a factor you have to take into account, which ultimately rewards skill and experience.

It’s not an amazingly deep game mechanic that i would particularly care about, but it’s also not an issue that is making the game worse in any way. [/quote]

What are you talking about? There is a 2v2 fight going on. My teammate kills the Nader behind me while I’m shooting the person in front of me. I die due to the Nader using martyrdom before I can react. How is that a hard situation or an uncommon one to come across? It has nothing to do with my situational awareness and everything to do with bad luck and a bad game mechanic.[/quote]

If you are aware that there is a Nader right next to you being killed, then what are you doing standing put? You have plenty of time to long jump away. If that is not feasible due to the particular combat situation then you may just be out of luck, but it isn’t any more random than peaking a corner while a sniper has lined up your head. You can’t get out of every situation, which is why not getting into those situations in the first place (or minimising the occurrence) is part of the game.

If you are not aware (which I assumed you were implying in your previous post), then you already know my response to that.

[Amerika]

Exactly. You’re just out of luck. No advice fixes that situation. It was a scenario that wasn’t in the game before because my teammate would have killed the guy and knife gibbed them. Expecting somebody to call out that a Nader is behind a teammate while in a firefight and expecting them to react within 0.9 seconds while in your own firefight is unreasonable given this particular use case.

I’ll give you a proper use case.

Map: Underground
Location: First objective/bomb plant room

Medic comes in the west side door and I’m near the plant site. I start shooting at them and a Nader from the other team drops in behind me from the top. That Nader engages my teammate who is in the room within a meter or two. My teammate very quickly takes out the Nader while the medic I am engaging is dodging in the doorway. This all happens in a couple of seconds. In the past my teammate, as part of teamwork, would have knife gibbed the Nader before Martyrdom could have been activated. I did this all the time for unaware team members in the past. With this new patch and change that isn’t an option and due to my close proximity to the Nader (who I don’t know is a Nader but know is a member of the opposite team unless I heard the launcher sound) the Nader activates martyrdom and I die.

The advice, given this reasonable and likely scenario (considering it’s happened a few times now in one night), isn’t very good advice.

I do not like randomness in games. I can deal with some (as in a sniper happening to line up a shot and I cross at that time) but that is at least a skill shot by the opposing player. Not a mostly hated giggle button used to get cheap kills. This is my perspective and you don’t have to agree with my view but it’s hard to argue with my scenario and many others like it in both pub and competitive play.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Amerika;18810”]
I do not like randomness in games. I can deal with some (as in a sniper happening to line up a shot and I cross at that time) but that is at least a skill shot by the opposing player. Not a mostly hated giggle button used to get cheap kills. This is my perspective and you don’t have to agree with my view but it’s hard to argue with my scenario and many others like it in both pub and competitive play.[/quote]

But that happens in EVERY shooter

You can try and predict everything down to a tee, but people don’t all think the same nor do they have the same skill. You could expect a good Sniper to pick you off the moment they see you so you can try to flank, only to realize that they may get lucky and decide to check your back right at the moment.

You can’t win every battle on your own, sorry, believe me I try. But it’s illogical to think that you’ll always be able to handle every scenario. That’s why it’s a team based shooter and not a DM one like Unreal or Quake, it’s about having your team helping you out and making up for small things you might forget to do or handle.

[Amerika]

I gave a use case where in the past my team would have been able to handle. Now they can’t. It’s a random element that is now in the game that wasn’t before. I dislike it. You might like it but I certainly don’t. I’ve stated my use case and you’re still arguing against it as if I should just accept it. I am voicing my opinion combined with rational thought and a reasonable and common scenario in an effort to get the change looked at and see if it’s really needed.

These forums, however, have in some spots become a place for certain types to simply be contradictory for the sake of it. You can disagree with what you like compared to what I like but you can’t argue that the game become more random with the change. That is simply a fact. Yet, here we are.