My thoughts and opinions in video form... [LONG]

[PixelTwitch]

I think we can all agree on that we are heavily biased by our favorite game which is the prototype for the best fps in our minds. Enemy territory doesnt matter at all as every other fps.

My favourite game of all time was Left 4 Dead… I have over 3000 hours on record already

I think on that basis its fair for me to suggest we add zombies to the game right? lol

[BAMFana]

ahh seriously… uninstalling… RAGE QUIT! GG NO RE!!!

This is a feeling anyone who’s tried arguing against the ET diehards on these forums has experienced at one point or another. Most of the players who are active on these forums, and almost all of the vocal ones, are here because they want W:ET 2 or ETQW 2, and they’re not afraid to let you know.

Unfortunately, either because SD themselves are ET diehards or because they are influenced by the vocal majority who have played throughout the alpha/beta, Extraction has been largely designed along those lines. There are many deviations for sure (all of which the ET diehards will complain about anytime they are brought up), but for the most part the game is based on the same fundamental gameplay mechanics as W:ET/ETQW.

No wonder the player retention is horrendously low – the game is designed according to the wishes of a miniscule group of players (there are other factors contributing to the low player retention, but this is by far the biggest one in my opinion). I’ve said countless times on these forums and ingame that I think Dirty Bomb has the potential to become a blockbuster game, the game that brings the competitive multiplayer fps back into the limelight, but I don’t see that happening unless there are major changes to the fundamental gameplay mechanics. PixelTwitch’s suggestions are a good place to start (I’ve suggested similar things myself previously), although I don’t think his spawn system suggestion is particularly good (it isn’t any worse than the current system, though).

[Rex]

No wonder the player retention is horrendously low – the game is designed according to the wishes of a miniscule group of players (there are other factors contributing to the low player retention, but this is by far the biggest one in my opinion).

So true. Now it’s time to turn the tide and let the CoD and NS2 players take over to save the player retention.

[Glottis-3D]

[QUOTE=BAMFana;498388]
No wonder the player retention is horrendously low – the game is designed according to the wishes of a miniscule group of players (there are other factors contributing to the low player retention, but this is by far the biggest one in my opinion). I’ve said countless times on these forums and ingame that I think Dirty Bomb has the potential to become a blockbuster game, the game that brings the competitive multiplayer fps back into the limelight, but I don’t see that happening unless there are major changes to the fundamental gameplay mechanics. PixelTwitch’s suggestions are a good place to start (I’ve suggested similar things myself previously), although I don’t think his spawn system suggestion is particularly good (it isn’t any worse than the current system, though).[/QUOTE]

You are wrong, mate. the game definitely is not designed according to the wishes of a miniscule group of players. But if you prefer yo put it and to think of it that way, ok.

Game is so far from what those Vocal ET/ETQW basterds want.

Game is just not good atm. thats the reason.

[BomBaKlaK]

[QUOTE=krokodealer;498392]You are wrong, mate. the game definitely is not designed according to the wishes of a miniscule group of players. But if you prefer yo put it and to think of it that way, ok.

Game is so far from what those Vocal ET/ETQW basterds want.

Game is just not good atm. thats the reason.[/QUOTE]

This !

10 chars

[Ashog]

[QUOTE=BAMFana;498388]Unfortunately, either because SD themselves are ET diehards or because they are influenced by the vocal majority who have played throughout the alpha/beta, Extraction has been largely designed along those lines. There are many deviations for sure (all of which the ET diehards will complain about anytime they are brought up), but for the most part the game is based on the same fundamental gameplay mechanics as W:ET/ETQW.
[/QUOTE]

LOL?

Aren’t you the one lobbying RTCW gameplay all the time yourself?

The thing is, the game has been evolving not along the lines of ET/ETQW, but either not along the lines of other generic mainstream shooters too much. It’s somewhere in between and neither, it just can’t decide what it is, and this is why the retention is low - noone feels attracted in the end.

There is almost nothing left in this game of ET/ETQW gameplay.

[ul]
[li]Movement is not free.
[/li][li]Forward spawns are almost non-existant.
[/li][li]Selectable spawns are non-existant.
[/li][li]Grenades were removed - choke points and EV undeniable (oh, the vocal ones!).
[/li][li]Classes were removed.
[/li][li]Multi-person objectives were removed.
[/li][li]Maps are castrated and mostly unimaginative (oh, the vocal ones!).
[/li][li]TTK is ridiculously low (oh, the vocal ones!).
[/li][li]Spread and recoil is high.
[/li][li]Characters are practically non-selectable during a map - tactics can go to hell.
[/li][li]Rocket launchers are absent.
[/li][li]Health regen is present.
[/li][li]Communication heavily limited.
[/li][li]Map duration laughably short (oh, the vocal ones!).
[/li][li]Did I say spawntimes atrociously short? Spawntimes atrociously short!
[/li][li]Every spawn is meaningless and can seldom change the map outcome or make any difference - only general pressure over time makes an effect.
[/li][li]Meaning of characters washed out - everyone can do everything - boring and no tactics required.
[/li][li]Core SW gamerules broken.
[/li][/ul]

To be honest, I don’t know what’s left of ET/ETQW here…

Objectives? - this was not the invention of ET, neither its unique feature.
Class play? - this was not the invention of ET, neither its unique feature.

[B]What is ET/ETQW gamestyle? Why did I stick to these games for what… 11 years now?

It’s a very complicated and balanced combination of class play, objective play, unrestricted movement, high TTK, balanced gunplay w/o weapon modification and w/o significant character progression and inventive, interesting, extensive map design which allows a player to submerge into the story. Oh, and last but not least - talented, friendly and responsive devs, open to community (but historically ****ed by publishers).[/B]

Now please feel free to select which features are still left. Remove too many and the magic balance is destroyed. That’s why if you need to cut or innovate - do it carefully!

[Erkin31]

Ashog’s post is perfect.

[Glottis-3D]

Orson Welles applauds to Ashog

[fubar]

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;498254]lol I actually really do… I was the exact same when moving to Shootmania from Quake recently.

I just feel that some people forget that while ET/ETQW had/has a decent player base its no where near big enough to support a new FREE TO PLAY game. On top of that they seem to also brush over the fact that both ET and ETQW had a huge issue with audience retention overall.

Thats not mentioning the fact that following certain design choices from both of these games would render certain design choices already present and in development for Dirty Bomb no longer functioning.

This would not be an issue if at least the current active playerbase/community had a wider demographic…
Its like asking 100,000 Muslims if all meat sold in the UK should be Halal…
compare that to asking 1,000,000 people of differing religions you would get a more accurate view on the real correct answer :)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don’t think you quite realize that ET is 11 years old. Eleven. Just as 1.6 and Quake3/QL and CoD4 are. There will always be a massive decline in audiences over the long term. ET used to have a HUGE following in it’s prime, especially for the state FPS/eSports was in, in that current time. So did 1.6, so did Brood War, so did Quake, CoD4 and thousands of other games. You can’t base your entire reasoning on today’s activity peaks. The internet as well as eSports has drastically changed within the past years. You, coming from Quake supposedly, especially should understand this.

[onYn]

First I have to say, wow Ashog, verry good post. I almost forgot many of the good aspects of ETQW in order to judge DB as neutral as possible, but I guess im still evil

I think everyone needs to calm a little bit down now. We all have our oppinions about what would work best for this game, but we also have completely different views on what this game is even going to be about. Everyones oppinion, no matter where it´s coming from, is supposed to be discussed here, and also verry much apreciated. But don´t confuse discussing with actually having an impact on the game development. That´s something, especially new incoming guys, as well as some who are slow to understand (I was the same for a long time) need to understand first. Just because me, or someoneelse doesn´t aprove it, doesnt mean **** if it will be in the game or not - that only depends on the developers and they don´t care if you win the arguing or not. They will decide for themselves if they see it working out or not, no matter what anyone says here. We are just an idea pool at best.

This game mostly wasn´t developed from the ideas that you see here on the forums and by that isn´t made after any specific groups wishes - I mean you gota be joking really bad, telling me that this game is made after ET or ETQW wishes, if you cant even tell me 3 names (only 3!!!) from all of the evil oldschool guys (from all the hundreds who had a chance to play this game), who actually really like this game. And I don´t mean people who just say they like it, but actually really do nerd the hell out of this game like people do when they really like something. Of course even if it would have been made after our wishes, some people would still dislike it but it´s not just some people who dislike it, it´s almost 100%. So stop fooling yourself. Or tell me 3 things that have been changed in an ET/ETQW direction in the last year. If anything the things have changed in the other direction, almost the opposite of what people asked for. Obviously you can find similarities because of the similar genre of those games, but that´s about it. Trying to find the reason for the poor performance of the game, in the (obviously not considered) oppinion of some brand loyal people is probably as dumb as trying to fix an electronical device by hiting it. It won´t fix **** and just showcases how humand minds try to create the poorest explenations and solutions for something that doesn´t work out. Apreciate everyones oppinion, like or dislike it because of it´s possible positive or negative effects on the game, but don´t try to be smarter than that or develop some racism like behavior. Also don´t be like little girls, thinking your oppinion does matter less or more, just because you say something different then anyonelse - it is probably considered as much as any oppinion ever has, is being or will be considered in the future and that is probably close to 0.

A little history lesson in the end: SD kinda failed with there last game. They probably need to make something that´s at least semi succesfull now. What does a company do when the previous (kinda experimental) project doesn´t work out? They go back to the roots, what they did best until now and don´t try to do too much experimenting. This is something that happens all over the world (in manufacturing, music or film producing etc.), for a good reason. That´s why this game was supposed to be this “objective based fast paced competitive FPS” and what it´s hopefully going to turn out in the end. After all it´s what they do best. Not some next lvl ****, with elements from all over the place, creating a whole new genre. I mean I am up for this, when it´s the direction SD wants to go, but I just don´t see it being the case or even being worth aiming at, given the current situation.

PS: I played more LoL then ETQW, still I don´t want to see people limited to one merc for an entire map

[Rex]

Beside BAMFanas bullsh!t post of the month, Ashog has made the best one of the month. (You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ashog again )

I especially like this sentence:

The thing is, the game has been evolving not along the lines of ET/ETQW, but either not along the lines of other generic mainstream shooters too much. It’s somewhere in between and neither, it just can’t decide what it is, and this is why the retention is low - noone feels attracted in the end.

That’s also what I think.

[BAMFana]

Thanks for proving my point guys.

Did onYn just accuse me of video game racism?

[onYn]

Thats some sick discussing skills fana. Where do you have that from, kindergarden maybe?

And yes, I am accusing you, as well as pretty much everyone else, including myself to some extent, on those forums (there are exceptions tho) to have some serious issues with tollerating and accepting others oppinions.

[Erkin31]

I cannot count the number of times in threads on these forums I have suggested something or read someone elses suggestions and seen the common response of… "it worked in ET

When something worked on ET but doesn’t work on DB, it’s logical to think “Splash Damage, you did it good ten years ago, while not use what you have done with ET ?”

I don’t want a copy of ET, but a game which inherits from good elements of ET. Tribes Ascend is the good example of what I would like to have.
Anyway, I’m not against changes.
But if you remove something that was good on ET, it should be replaced by another element as good as the element deleted.

[malarky]

PixelTwitch - thanks for taking the time to put that video together, good perspective and well communicated.

On meta, strategy and eSports potential - I think we have a game that is competitive in nature, but we’re clearly not going to come out and say it’s an eSport. Most of the dev team are also LoL/Dota/CSGO/SC2 players or spectators, so we know the difference between a game which is merely competitive, and an eSport. We talk about this stuff a lot - why some games work as eSports, why some don’t, etc. We’ve touched on pretty much all of your comments at some point.

One thing that definitely doesn’t work is when a developer comes out and starts telling their players “hey, our game the next big eSport” without really waiting to find out how players are going to play the game or listening to feedback and making the improvements necessary. If the game has competition potential, hopefully that’s going to come from grassroots and we’ll do everything we can to support that type of play (like at the most basic level: the pickup/scrims that have been running - awesome).

Obviously we have plenty of ideas about what a DB competition mode would look like, but we’re hoping for more direct feedback and strong opinions from players about what they want to see, how a competitive game should work, etc before we commit to building anything like a competition mode. Right now the pickups are essentially replicating the ET scene rules (mostly because that’s what we’ve built…), but I would suspect some evolution of this is due, since DB is similar, but isn’t an exact replica of ET.

[fubar]

[QUOTE=malarky;498526]
Obviously we have plenty of ideas about what a DB competition mode would look like, but we’re hoping for more direct feedback and strong opinions from players about what they want to see, how a competitive game should work, etc before we commit to building anything like a competition mode. Right now the pickups are essentially replicating the ET scene rules (mostly because that’s what we’ve built…), but I would suspect some evolution of this is due, since DB is similar, but isn’t an exact replica of ET.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know, really. I remember having read countless of topics and forum posts, complaining, begging, urging you to change features and settings in-game to fit competitive gameplay more, because whatever it is right now, does not work.
Even in this topic, we have the exact same discussions that have been going on ever since way early alpha. I myself remember having posted a forum thread on the nexon board which had - every. single. - competitive minded person agreeing to each and every point, hell even the “casual” pub fraggers agreed on the majority of suggestions, but yet all I ever seen in this direction is the re-introduction of the minimap. Correct me if I’m wrong, but do you genuinely react on these or do you just decide that your entire player base from alpha to beta doesn’t have valid opinions in this matter? Because right now, what you’re saying and what you’ve been doing are two entirely different things.

[PixelTwitch]

[QUOTE=fubar;498588]I don’t know, really. I remember having read countless of topics and forum posts, complaining, begging, urging you to change features and settings in-game to fit competitive gameplay more, because whatever it is right now, does not work.
Even in this topic, we have the exact same discussions that have been going on ever since way early alpha. I myself remember having posted a forum thread on the nexon board which had - every. single. - competitive minded person agreeing to each and every point, hell even the “casual” pub fraggers agreed on the majority of suggestions, but yet all I ever seen in this direction is the re-introduction of the minimap. Correct me if I’m wrong, but do you genuinely react on these or do you just decide that your entire player base from alpha to beta doesn’t have valid opinions in this matter? Because right now, what you’re saying and what you’ve been doing are two entirely different things.[/QUOTE]

I could be wrong but what I believe Malarky actually means when he says “more direct feedback” is “more DIVERSE direct feedback”.

After all them casual pub fraggers need to make up a good 99% of playerbase if Dirty Bomb is to be successful!

What I personally read from Malarkys post is…
We know what the ET guys want… However, before we commit and start crafting this competitive mode, lets wait and see if anyone comes up with an amazing idea that could be so amazing that it could both work casually and be to the level that even the old school guys like.

Then again, I could be completely wrong… after all I have not been around these parts as long as most you guys

[prophett]

tldw? 10char

[onYn]

So since I have seen you still lobbying for your great idea of reducing the ammount of mercs to 1 per player and round, I have some more points for you to consider.

• Any type of character selection for an extended period of time needs to come with an character development system during the game. Otherwise the games will be simply stomps. The character development, is how player can adjust to the current game situation. On ONE given map (moba maps), with the one of the simplest of all map designs humanity has ever seen in gaming history since Tetris. You don´t have character development in DB. But I am humble, okay, let´s say they find a way to make some proper character customization, that doesn´t resemble games like Elder Scrolls Online/modern mobas and by that will be something that is allready out there. EVERY game, that works with characters that you lock in, and have to play for the whole map are played on simple maps, I won´t make this post ultra long tho discussing the reason for this. But the conclusion after considering of what needs to be done, in order to make the limitation to one character per game reasonable is: let´s make the DB maps even simplier now, to fit your idea. Hf finding friends for this.

• Pick and Ban: AWESOME. Give me. But first you need to increase the number of mercs, that are strong, balanced and unique to at least 30-40 that are playable in any given state of the meta. In order to do that, you will have to insanely increase the impact of abilities on the game. So you need now to add character customization and more/stronger abilities. You will make weapons with serious game inpact to the new pistols. Because of that you would probably need to increase the weapon dmg by a lot, decreasing the TTK even more. You probably need to remove objectives then. They will simply be too hard to build, because every shot and every ability can kill you so hiding and camping would be the ultimative stragedy, making this whole game, shift it´s whole genre a lot. Probably resembling more an unpolished MOBA, then a FPS.

-The pace of the game, is what makes the ability to adjust properly more and more important. The faster the game, the quicker you need to be able to adjust, or you will be just stomped. The pace of a game can be easily measured, counting the deaths that happen during a given amount of time. I will be humble, and don´t calculate it in front of you showing you how displaced this idea is. You can do it yourself: Just compare the average death of a competitive lol player in an average game - and then do the same for DB. The discrepancy, is the amount of adjusting that should be doable in order to keep up an interesting game development. That´s actually the reason why I prefere to watch Dota2 more then LoL (even tho I mostly play LoL). Because you can adjust better, and because of the games are not decided for quiet a long time. While in LoL you usually can tell who is going to win, after the slightest gold difference. Why? Because you can´t adjust as well as you can in Dota2. Even tho those 2 are mobas, and played on simple maps, this makes a huge difference, really seting those games apart. Now you want to put this directly into an FPS, where the overall pace of the game is at least 10 times higher?

• Game progression? You want game progression? Yeah, good luck with that one, there will be 100% if not more people staying arround, and waiting for something like there abilities, because a push without them will be pretty much useless. Lets guess how strong defensive abilities must be, when all the abilities are buffed. Even if defensive abilities are balanced in a super poor way it will result in people waiting for there cooldowns. You know why? Because the spawn timer you want to have (that starts when the first member dies) is about as useless as this idea, and also cotradicting it a lot. If the window to your next cooldown is bellow the respawn time, no one will attack, because they will take the full respawn time. Guess what? With common spawn timers, they can start a rush, right before there spawn timer hits 0, so that they are all dead within 4 secs, respawning insatntly, due to nice timing. But who needs a game where you actually need timing skills?

• If you think that is something I would LOVE to see in this game, you are as wrong as you can get. I am probably the last one who ever was interested in playing more then 1 class, nor was a fan od doing it in a game. I slmost never switched when an objective needed to be done, because I usually was too slow with my reactions and decision making. So I don´t like it, and I was too bad at it. Doesn´t really sound like something I am arguing for just because I like it. No, it´s just a game mechanic, that was important and and will allways be important in an objective based game. It´s game deciding, during the ENTIRE game. You wan´t to see this replaced it with a 4 minutes thrill during pick and ban phase? Okay

There is no way, you seriously thought about this into more detail. There is just no way someone can oversee so many contradictions like you, while having a huge forum post about contradictions within that game by yourself… I did and for sure not just because I love it. If there would be an effective way to improve the game on this point, I would really apreciate it. But a pick and ban phase, and team composition aspects, by far doesn´t compare to what it´s replacing and I am not even talking about all the further changes, that would need to be done, in order to make this mechanic work in this game and still be congruent to everything else.

//EDIT: after rereading it… I just realize this was way too offensive… In case you read it, soz for that, I prolly should have went to bed some time ago ^^

[PixelTwitch]

• Any type of character selection for an extended period of time needs to come with an character development system during the game. Otherwise the games will be simply stomps. The character development, is how player can adjust to the current game situation. On ONE given map (moba maps), with the one of the simplest of all map designs humanity has ever seen in gaming history since Tetris. You don´t have character development in DB. But I am humble, okay, let´s say they find a way to make some proper character customization, that doesn´t resemble games like Elder Scrolls Online/modern mobas and by that will be something that is allready out there. EVERY game, that works with characters that you lock in, and have to play for the whole map are played on simple maps, I won´t make this post ultra long tho discussing the reason for this. But the conclusion after considering of what needs to be done, in order to make the limitation to one character per game reasonable is: let´s make the DB maps even simplier now, to fit your idea. Hf finding friends for this.

Actually, In DBs current form all you need is any of the engineer classes and then you have the Objectives covered… While sure, you could use a RECON class for hacking… However due to the current way the RECON class handles, you NEVER see a RECON picked for hack objectives anyway… Character customisation is on its way and I would be amazed if we did not see the movement system restricted in certain ways for certain Mercs and on top of that slight variations in the HP of each Merc in future also.

Your theory on the MAPS is actually not true… The reasons why Mobas have simple maps is due to the need to balance both sides while keeping variation. DB works on ATTACK and DEFENCE rounds meaning that all this is irrelevant. Picking an Engie, Medic, Support is no different in style to picking Mid, Support and Carry in most Mobas… If you feel that FPS gamers are not bright enough to figure out what they need to pick, fair enough. However this is one of the advantages to allowing all classes to do the objectives, even if it is a lot slower. If we had a Moba “mode” then I would agree… That is not the case though. Let’s also not forget that all the maps we have are already being designed to work with any selection of Mercs… Again, I just want to make sure that you understand that I do not recommend this 1 Merc system for PUBLIC… Just match making.

• Pick and Ban: AWESOME. Give me. But first you need to increase the number of mercs, that are strong, balanced and unique to at least 30-40 that are playable in any given state of the meta. In order to do that, you will have to insanely increase the impact of abilities on the game. So you need now to add character customization and more/stronger abilities. You will make weapons with serious game inpact to the new pistols. Because of that you would probably need to increase the weapon dmg by a lot, decreasing the TTK even more. You probably need to remove objectives then. They will simply be too hard to build, because every shot and every ability can kill you so hiding and camping would be the ultimative stragedy, making this whole game, shift it´s whole genre a lot. Probably resembling more an unpolished MOBA, then a FPS.

I like you dude… But this has to be one of the stupidest quotes on the whole forums…
Let’s start with the not so bad stuff… I AGREE that we will need a lot more Mercs (around 30-40 sounds about right actually). We already have 20 in the game and 3 more confirmed and I would expect to get to around the 30-40 mark before release. I also agree that you either have to increase the effect of abilities and/or introduce more abilities. This could also be helped by adding more Passives to certain Mercs, Having a tiered weapon system and creating wider variations in movement potential and HP… All very possible and likely to come in some form in future anyway.

Now this is where things start to get silly…
You simply cannot make blind assumptions on things being impacted without backing it up… Increase Weapon Damage? NOPE!
Abilities do not need to scale with Weapon damage and TTK does not have to be decreased… If anything, in order to increase the developers ability to balance more mercs and character customisation whilst also increasing the feeling of uniqueness with each Merc, We will see a wider variation in weapon damages and if anything a higher TTK in order to make the customisation and abilities mean something… When you talk about removing objectives, you seem to fail to remember that with the current design (switch between 3 mercs and lots of people asking for MORE) you are MORE at risk of making objectives impossible… 5 Arty vs an EV? 5 Engie on the C4 Containers? 5 Medics on push with Data Cores? these are just extreme examples… I can think of a LOT more… This is OBVIOUSLY a statement made out of anger and frustration because no matter how you look at it… it makes no sense and it has no basis in fact or reality.

-The pace of the game, is what makes the ability to adjust properly more and more important. The faster the game, the quicker you need to be able to adjust, or you will be just stomped. The pace of a game can be easily measured, counting the deaths that happen during a given amount of time. I will be humble, and don´t calculate it in front of you showing you how displaced this idea is. You can do it yourself: Just compare the average death of a competitive lol player in an average game - and then do the same for DB. The discrepancy, is the amount of adjusting that should be doable in order to keep up an interesting game development. That´s actually the reason why I prefere to watch Dota2 more then LoL (even tho I mostly play LoL). Because you can adjust better, and because of the games are not decided for quiet a long time. While in LoL you usually can tell who is going to win, after the slightest gold difference. Why? Because you can´t adjust as well as you can in Dota2. Even tho those 2 are mobas, and played on simple maps, this makes a huge difference, really seting those games apart. Now you want to put this directly into an FPS, where the overall pace of the game is at least 10 times higher?

Like mentioned previously this Moba comparison is silly when the game mode would not be based on Moba…
The reason there are so many deaths right now is for multiple reasons… First off… The lack of punishment for death. This is mostly down to Respawn timers tbh, as well as map design. Sure an FPS is going to have a LOT more deaths then a game like LoL and Dota2… However lets flip this a little bit… Quake 3 is a game that is very fast paced and that in comp has very few kills most of the time… There is no rule book anywhere that says that “fast paced games” need the ability to adjust… In fact that whole statement is based on nothing but blind assumption and what you obviously enjoy… A game where the ability to adjust is taken from BOTH teams can you explain why that would result in a STOMP??? Can you come up with anything other than “well if they pick badly…”? I totally understand if you do not like the idea… Just tell me “its not going to be fun” but please do not tell me stuff based on ignorance and assumption… Simply… The number of deaths has NO relevance on the way you pick your characters.

• Game progression? You want game progression? Yeah, good luck with that one, there will be 100% if not more people staying arround, and waiting for something like there abilities, because a push without them will be pretty much useless. Lets guess how strong defensive abilities must be, when all the abilities are buffed. Even if defensive abilities are balanced in a super poor way it will result in people waiting for there cooldowns. You know why? Because the spawn timer you want to have (that starts when the first member dies) is about as useless as this idea, and also cotradicting it a lot. If the window to your next cooldown is bellow the respawn time, no one will attack, because they will take the full respawn time. Guess what? With common spawn timers, they can start a rush, right before there spawn timer hits 0, so that they are all dead within 4 secs, respawning insatntly, due to nice timing. But who needs a game where you actually need timing skills?

Again silly talk based of silly assumptions…
Also you have taken the idea of progression completely out of context… The idea of progression is LARGE topic that spans so many aspects of the game and is very different to each section of the audience (Player, Spectator, Caster, Viewer). This has nothing to do with map unlocks or anything like that… If you are talking about “map progression” fine… I am talking about “story progression” and I do make that clear in the video.

I am getting frustrated now reading this wall of ridiculous text to be honest…
“But who needs a game where you actually need timing skills?” - Because looking at a wave timer and making a simple Yes/No decision is skill right?
With a more complex Respawn timer like the one I suggest in the video you REALLY need to have some good timing skill… You need to know when people will be respawning and learn the cool down times on everyone abilities to make sure you have a decent window. Knowing that if you kill someone a 30second respawn starts now… Then also the people that lost someone would also have the EXACT same ability to do a push at 4 seconds like in the current system anyway…

However you just wanted to pick out the ONE example that timing would be removed… You just forget to mention the 10 MORE times that timing skill would be required using the suggested system or one of the many other suggested systems on the forums?

• If you think that is something I would LOVE to see in this game, you are as wrong as you can get. I am probably the last one who ever was interested in playing more then 1 class, nor was a fan od doing it in a game. I slmost never switched when an objective needed to be done, because I usually was too slow with my reactions and decision making. So I don´t like it, and I was too bad at it. Doesn´t really sound like something I am arguing for just because I like it. No, it´s just a game mechanic, that was important and and will allways be important in an objective based game. It´s game deciding, during the ENTIRE game. You wan´t to see this replaced it with a 4 minutes thrill during pick and ban phase? Okay

This is actually the only decent thing you have said so far…
I totally understand if you will not like it… I respect that I really do… Also, YES it is a game mechanic… But what says it needs to be THIS games mechanic? Again, this is your opinion and while I do not agree with it I will fight to the death for your right to have it.

There is no way, you seriously thought about this into more detail. There is just no way someone can oversee so many contradictions like you, while having a huge forum post about contradictions within that game by yourself… I did and for sure not just because I love it. If there would be an effective way to improve the game on this point, I would really apreciate it. But a pick and ban phase, and team composition aspects, by far doesn´t compare to what it´s replacing and I am not even talking about all the further changes, that would need to be done, in order to make this mechanic work in this game and still be congruent to everything else.

I honestly just feel that you have turned bitter with disappointment and that has in turn made you blind to anything outside of your own experience…
TBH dude… Like I said… I like you…
But this was ridiculous… and to think you have the nerve to call me out for contradictions… Disappointed!