MY Sugggestions/questions for ET : QW

(ouroboro) #21

I believe everyone should be encouraged to fight on their feet for the most part. Even more annoying than proners, IMO, are bunnyhoppers. It’s not that they’re hard to kill, quite the contrary. A jumping player is a predictable arc and an easy kill. No, the reason I dislike them is because they believe their best chance is to hop around and spray, hoping that if they can avoid enemy fire long enough, they will eventually land enough shots to make the kill. This isn’t skilled gameplay. Players should be encouraged to improve their aim so they can win on their feet. This leads to more skilled players and better competition.

So, jumping should send accuracy completely into the gutter. W:ET does this very well. Only the most green players bunnyhop in W:ET, because any player who’s been around a while realizes what a poor “tactic” it is.

While on your feet, spread should be kept to a minimum, so that skilled aim is rewarded.

As for prone, it’s more difficult. Sure you could just give proners horrible accuracy, but that’s completely illogical. And an “accuracy delay” like that offered by ETPro is rather useless to prevent someone from proning at a distance and laying in wait. The effects would have worn off by the time they shoot.

The only way to deal with prone is to make it available only to slow-firing weapons such as snipers. But I don’t think this is how ET:QW handles it, so it will almost certainly be a cause of whining. One possible solution would be to disable turning while prone. Lay down on the floor and try to turn while firing an imaginary weapon. It’s nearly impossible. With a limited firing arc, proners could be easily flanked and would be have to get back on their feet to counter it.

(Isabel Lucas) #22

Personally I don’t see a problem with bunny hopping, in fact I quite like it. It can be skillful if correctly executed as it can help you evade fire, and equally it demands skill on you as a player to shoot someone who’s moving. So whether you;'re doing it or they are, it raises the skill level.

The problem as I see it arises only out of prone jumping which exploits the hit box issues associated with greater proned accuracy and smaller hit box areas.

It also looks a little stupid. Someone could jump around in real life but not horizontally. Diving prone yes, but jumping up and down prone no. I know ETQW isn’t suppposed to be realistic and all hail that, but PJ’ing is a step too far in any game as it exploits deficiencies in the games detection engine.

Al.

(Hakuryu) #23

Well in real life you wouldn’t be able to jump 2 feet off the ground, continously, while firing your rifle… at least not do this and expect to hit someone.

Bunny hopping and prone jumping are lame in BF2, but moreso because of the crappy hit detection and bullet cones of fire. You dont see people bunny hopping (much) in ET, because your opponent can actually hit what he is aiming at. If you could aim and hit things in BF2 (without non-reg hits and wild bullet cones) then bunny hopping would be worthless.

(ouroboro) #24

No offense, but you are clearly uninformed.

Nothing could be easier to hit than a bunnyhopper. Every time you leave the ground, I know where you will land. It doesn’t evade fire except from the greenest of players who, when seeing you begin hopping, wildly try to follow your trajectory up and down.

Even if you can’t accept that, there’s no arguing that jumping completely hoses your accuracy (that’s not my opinion, that’s game code). You only hurt yourself by bunnyhopping in ET.

And finally, ask yourself why no top competitive players hop around madly when under fire. Bunnyhopping is the instinctive reflex of new players, but it is eventually outgrown with experience. You are much better served by adopting a random, unpredictable strafing pattern, and using sprint if available.

I’m not saying bunnyhopping is lame, I’m saying it’s dumb. There’s a difference.

(Black_Forky) #25

Even if you can’t accept that, there’s no arguing that jumping completely hoses your accuracy (that’s not my opinion, that’s game code). You only hurt yourself by bunnyhopping in ET.

I don’t remember jumping ever affecting my accuracy. Could I get a code snippet please? :stuck_out_tongue:

(SCDS_reyalP) #26

With a couple of notable exceptions. Some people do rather well bouncing around like mad with the unscoped rifles.

(kamikazee) #27

I’m too lazy at the moment to go and dig in the code, but you can try this for yourself:

  • Start W:ET
  • Open the console, enter /devmap goldrush
  • When the map is loaded, open the console again and enter /g_debugBullets 1
  • Now aim for something and see how your bullets fly when jumping compared to standing up/crouching/proning.
(]UBC[ McNite) #28

Proning is a “problem” in every game which has it. The reason is clear: it’s effective. Therefore, the solution is equally clear: remove it’s effectiveness.

Why should something effective be removed? Just cuz comp gamers don’t like it? Its a technique, and hey if it works better than just staying on your feet, you better adapt… after all FPS are “survival of the fittest”.
Just demanding to remove it reflects an attitude of “i can’t deal with it so plz remove it”… Dudes check your attitude.

Also, if a bunnyhopping player is easy to kill due to predictable jumping trajectory, and you claim that a bunnyhopper is far less likely to survive a fight, why do you demand an increase in bullet spread at all? Shouldn’t you give him LESS spread to make up for it, even chances and provide you with more aiming skill challenge? Ooopsie, maybe then there would be more than one real good technique… (Note: this is SARCASM)

(Joe999) #29

don’t forget the mighty pants-ah! :smiley:

(Isabel Lucas) #30

No offense, but you are clearly uninformed.

Nothing could be easier to hit than a bunnyhopper. Every time you leave the ground, I know where you will land. It doesn’t evade fire except from the greenest of players who, when seeing you begin hopping, wildly try to follow your trajectory up and down.

Well no offence but obviouslyyou are misinformed - it can help and especially if you don’t jump up and down but add in side ways movement as well, that is where the skill comes in, its not in the jumping but how it’s executed in order to evade shots. I’ve had people empty an entire clip at me and not hit me with a single shot. In 1942 the strafe was the top technique, but if you ran low on health or out of ammo, you could often bunny hop as you med’ed / reloaded, then turn around and kill your opponent when they were out of ammo.

As for you being able to hit them, well congrats, you are obviously a skillful player who tracks his opponent and that is your reward. So why is it a problem for you, if you CAN hit them?

And finally, ask yourself why no top competitive players hop around madly when under fire. Bunnyhopping is the instinctive reflex of new players, but it is eventually outgrown with experience. You are much better served by adopting a random, unpredictable strafing pattern, and using sprint if available.

Top players use a variety of methods and tactics and are fluid as to what they use an when. In 1942 the strafe was the top tactic for firing and the bunny hop for medding / reloading. In BF2, bunny hopping was effective until jumping and shooting was removed. In fact in BF2 prone jumping was the top tactic until removed (read partially removed) because of the way it exploited the hitbox issue. However, no top player ever use the same tactic in every situation, fluidity is the key to success.

Also, I know a little about competition. I’m ex [HOT] - [HOT] won the 1942 CAL / TWL leagues a record 8 times (from memory) and are the current BF2 12 vs 12 CAL champions. They were also the runners up in the recent BF2 World Tournament.

Al.

(SCDS_reyalP) #31

Isabel Lucas: you are talking about BF. ouroboro is talking about ET.

(Isabel Lucas) #32

I know but what we’re talking about are suggestions for ETQW.

I’m talking about general gameplay techniques and whether or not certain styles of play should be allowable in ETQW. My references to BF are exactly that, as examples only. Games may have different accuracy levels etc that do affect gameplay, but at the end of the day techniques tend to be universal across games with only minor differences in effectiveness due to accuracy considerations.Thats why techniques such as bunny hopping pervade so many different games.

Its my experience that those who don’t like such techniques usually don’t like them because they are bettered by them rather than because they don’t like them per se. There’s a difference between taking something out because it exploits a weakness in the game engine to taking something out to lower the skill level. Doing the latter usually only results in a less fun less skillful game and I personally don’t subscribe to games or gaming companies that get into those kind of decisions.

(senator) #33

Isabel Lucas, my suggestion for you is:

Download ET, connect to a server and than just see for yourself whether people are bunnyhopping or not. I think you will quickly find out that they dont, and as effective as bunnyhopping might be in BF or Quake, it simply doesn’t work in ET. And the reason is becaue it simply is not an effective tactic in ET, your aim just gets so bad that you won’t hit anything while others will still easily fill your avatar with some high speed lead :smiley:

Try it for yourself if you dont belive us :moo:

(B0rsuk) #34

Isabel Lucas, we’re looking forward to hear your W:ET gameplay impressions.
By the way, it was you who complained how unskilful grenadelauncher is in W:ET because you can just shoot people at short range and both players die. And you looked honestly suprised when you heard there’s a minimal arming distance.
So I’d say credibility of your claims is seriously undermined.

(ouroboro) #35

[quote=]UBC[ McNite]

Proning is a “problem” in every game which has it. The reason is clear: it’s effective. Therefore, the solution is equally clear: remove it’s effectiveness.

Why should something effective be removed? Just cuz comp gamers don’t like it?[/quote]

I don’t recall saying it should be. My angle on the discussion was that proning is overly used because it is so effective. If everyone decides they can live with that, fine. Everyone will constantly prone. But if we would prefer that a game remain fast and exciting, well, proning is the antithesis of that. So perhaps it would make sense to give proning a downside which allows it to be effective in certain scenarios but not as a constant technique. Hope that makes sense. It seemed to make sense to the ETPro team, who added options to do just that at the urging of competitive players.

Also understand that when a competitive community asks for a gameplay change, it is not because they simply “don’t like it.” Competitive players are generally looking for high levels of competition. That is what they like. A pro gamer will probably do well in any game, given time to learn it. That doesn’t mean every game is just fine out of the box. They can all do with a little tweaking, and most developers do so with patches (I recall IW making some major changes to jumping in an early CoD1 patch, for example). Competitive gameplay changes are made if/when the majority agree that such changes would further the progression of competition.

I couldn’t agree more. The key phrase in your statement, however, is “if it works better.” My question is if, in the interests of gameplay, it should work better.

I don’t. It’s already like that. I happen to agree with SD that it makes sense in W:ET.

You could try that approach. It could probably work well in a Quake-ish game. It would be interesting to see how gameplay would evolve if accuracy was lower while not jumping. I think it would alter W:ET gameplay beyond recognition, however.

Clearly.

(Isabel Lucas) #36

Download ET, connect to a server and than just see for yourself whether people are bunnyhopping or not. I think you will quickly find out that they dont, and as effective as bunnyhopping might be in BF or Quake, it simply doesn’t work in ET. And the reason is becaue it simply is not an effective tactic in ET, your aim just gets so bad that you won’t hit anything while others will still easily fill your avatar with some high speed lead

I did donwload ET and played it for maybe 20 mins but it’s so out of date now in terms of player movement, I simply couldn’t stand playing it any longer (no offense to those of you who still like it). I didn’t try jumping around and shooting as I never developed any feel for the game.

But, if the accuracy suffers so much then why do SD / ET players make such a big thing of the fact that its a game in which you can jump and shoot? It seems that having jumping and shooting in under those circumstances is no different to having locked weapons whilst jumping in battlefield, ultimately both are gameplay nerfs, just acheived in different ways.

As I like arcade games, I guess I won’t be buying ETQW after all if those kind of restrictions are in.

(ouroboro) #37

W:ET is as arcadey as it gets, actually. I’d really recommend you give it another try, rather than making broad assumptions based on what are probably misinterpretations of statements made by a few strangers on a forum (not the least of which, me).

If you like arcade over realism, I assure you, W:ET is the game for you. I’ve said it a million times but it’s true: the Wolfenstein franchise is a cartoon. It began as a cartoon, and it’s still a cartoon. I say that as lovingly as possible; I wouldn’t have it any other way.

As for movement, it is very familiar if you come from an arcadey, Quake-type background. Old, perhaps, but hardly outdated. It’s instinctive and logical. You will learn to rely on the movement in W:ET like an old friend.

Reinstall W:ET! It is crazy fun, I promise! :clap:

(Salteh) #38

Why do you think the W:ET movement is outdated? :slight_smile:

(Zyklon) #39

I guess because you ran run faster than 30 kph, fall from great heights without dying, and are not slowed down by shooting or being hit :moo:

(jimb0) #40

Well, you just discovered a game you don’t like. Hooray. Now you can use that newly-acquired information in the search for a game that you actually like, whichever it may be.

News flash: people have different tastes.