My sten doesn't overheat.

(Vengeance) #21

This is from the manuel

Uniquely for a First Person Shooter, Enemy Territory rewards players with Skills, Rewards and Promotions. Each of Enemy Territory’s classes has its own specific skill and abilities, in addition to two general skills that apply to all classes: Light Weapons and Battle Sense. For each class, the use of their primary skill (e.g. First Aid for Medics) results in an increase in Experience Points (XP) and at certain levels these result in a Reward.

This tells me no skill cross overs should happen apart from light weapons and battle sense and those that do are bugged

(weasel) #22

It doesn’t say anything about the rewards being specific to a single class, just skill and abilities. Like it says, skills are things like First Aid, Signals, etc. Abilities are things like healing for medics, airstrikes for field ops, and things like that. Skill and abilities obviously don’t carry over (except Heavy Weapons, with emplaced MGs). Rewards seem to carry over, at least sometimes. Whether this is intentional or not will require an answer from SD.

(Vengeance) #23

Im sure there would be information in the manual about crossover skills. The only skills they state that do crossover are battle sense and light weapons.

(Awol) #24

In the test I know lvl 4 field ops detect coverts did carry over to your new class. Not sure about the final but I think it still carries over. Frankly I think its alright yes the sten never over heats big deal neither does my mp40. Only thing different is the sten is quieter just about everything else between the guns are close.

(Wraith2k3) #25

sten is more accurate too, which can make a big difference at long ranges.

(weasel) #26

Sten is way more accurate. I’m 41% accurate with Sten, 28% with Thompson, and 30% with MP-40. I don’t know why I do better with the MP-40 when it’s the same as the Thompson, but for some reason, it always works out that way. The Sten’s only drawbacks are that it’s less powerful, and that it overheats. L2 HW takes away one of the only two drawbacks, though, making the Sten by far the best SMG. The accuracy makes up for the power.

(Majin) #27

I tested the MG42, and it is simply twice the time.
Normally it takes approx. 3 seconds to overheat.
At L2 Heavy Weapons it becomes about 6 seconds.

Weasel, what you are saying is far more than twice cooling.
Let me try real quick to show how your logic would cool the MG42.

MG42 fires 50 bullets per second, so 20ms between bullets. Firing a bullet causes it to heat up to 4/100 of the bar. By defualt, it cools at 2/100 of the bar per 20ms. So you fire a bullet, bar goes to 4/100, in 20 ms between bullets it cools to 2/100. Fire next bullet, up to 6/100 and back down to 4/100. So after 50 bullets, 100/100 and it overheats.

Now you have L2 heavy weapons. Twice the cooling rate. Instead of 2/100 per 20ms, it’s 2/100 per 10ms, or 4/100 per 20ms. You fire a bullet, bar goes to 4/100. In 20ms between bullets, it cools all the way back down to 0. You fire another, up to 4/100, down to 0.

This shows that your math is not how it works, as it would mean at L2 HW MG42 would go forever too.
note: I scaled the firing rate to approximately the same percentage of inaccuracy he used, both guns actually fire much slower (approx. 3 times).

Also, as Vengeance said, The no cross over stuff is in the manual.
It says, at the beginning of each class, something close to, “This class-specific group of skills is rewarded by doing blah blah blah”.

(weasel) #28

Okay, I actually measured some numbers from the game. Now lets see if it works. First, the numbers.

       Heat Cool Bullets
MG-42   3.5  5.5      48
Sten    3.5  3.0      16

MG-42 is approximately 73ms in between bullets. It cools 18% of the bar per second, so 1.3% of the bar per 73ms. It heats about 3.4% of the bar for each bullet. Fire a bullet, up to 3.4, then down to 2.1. 100/2.1 = 47.6, close enough to the 48 measured. (So you see the numbers I calculated are accurate) Now we double the cooling rate. 2.6% of the bar per 73ms. All other numbers remain the same. Fire a bullet, up to 3.4, then down to 0.8. 100/0.8 is 125. You’ll find that depending on how you position the gun (firing rate varies) you can get anywhere from 100 to as much as 140 bullets out with the higher cooling rate. Now for the sten…

Sten is approximately 219ms between bullets. It cools 33% of the bar per second, so 7.3% of the bar in 219ms. It heats about 13.5% of the bar per bullet. Fire a bullet, up to 13.5, then down to 6.2. 100/6.2 = 16.1, close enough to the 16 measured. Now we double the cooling rate. 14.6% of the bar per 219ms. Fire a bullet, up to 13.5, then down to 0. So you see, it doesn’t overheat.

Will you accept my explanation now?

(Majin) #29

Your data and equation are both flawed.
Go get accurate data out of a 1/10th time scale demo and put that data into your equation.
You will quickly see it plainly does not work correctly when you double the cooling rate.

Your equation is not correct for this cooling. Doubling the cooling % in the equation does not give you the correct results, when using accurate data.

I already had accurate data a while ago, but I decided it would be easiest (since data can easily be rounded in the wrong way to prove what ever point you want) to just put hypothetical numbers into your equation to show that it simply does not work when dealing with the doubled cooling rates.

(ETplayer) #30

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(weasel) #31

I give up. I can’t argue with you. Maybe someone from SD will settle this, you obviously won’t listen to anyone else.

(Borsuk) #32

In general, Mg doesn’t overheat. If 3 seconds aren’t enough for you to kill the enemy, you deserve to die. You don’t shoot before target is in your crosshairs anyway.

Level2 Heavy Weapons is pointless… almost. It allows you to access Level3 and LEvel4 Heavy :confused:

(Chairman Kaga) #33

To be very technical, Heavy Weapons is not a soldier-exclusive skill. Try fragging some guys with a turret gun sometime. Note your skill scores afterwards.

Regardless, it does seem very broken that the Sten gets a bonus from heavy weapons skill…
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(Borsuk) #34

Hmm manual says it’s just Battle Sense ! I’m going to check this one.

(bogs) #35

to quote the hives,

“well, well, well…”

not a bug.

(DrGratis) #36

Damn wrote a big reply and the poof comp erased it…

Anyways, my point was Fixed MGs (and sometimes mobil ones) should be fired at areas of enemies with out a specific target (or even just areas where enemies are)

Sure you dont get XP and you wont win highest XP but your cover fire might just keep the enemies heads down, and allow your teammates to plant or build or whatever it is they are doing… :cool:

I used fixed MGs on goldrush like this all the time…

(Dr.Fragenstein) #37

Chairman Kaga brought up a good point: any class can advance in Heavy Weapons if they man a stationary MG-42. You’ll advance in Heavy Weapons XP for each kill. Theoritically, you could play as a Medic for the whole game and get “Best Heavy Weapons” if you mow down enough bodies with a stationary MG-42.

I consider this a feature. It makes sense that you should get proficient with Heavy Weapons if you’re consistently using a stationary MG-42. This goes against the prior thinking that skills are not transferrable across classes.

(Majin) #38

What else would the points for killing with a mounted gun go to? Its not a light weapon, or part of any class. The XP just has to go to heavy weapons.
I see little reason why this has anything to do with the transfer of class rewards.

No other class rewards transfer over (haven’t tested L4 fops or Cops), and the only one that we know does, is said to only work on MG42’s in the game manual.

(Wraith2k3) #39

Chairman Kaga brought up a good point: any class can advance in Heavy Weapons if they man a stationary MG-42. You’ll advance in Heavy Weapons XP for each kill. Theoritically, you could play as a Medic for the whole game and get “Best Heavy Weapons” if you mow down enough bodies with a stationary MG-42.

I consider this a feature. It makes sense that you should get proficient with Heavy Weapons if you’re consistently using a stationary MG-42. This goes against the prior thinking that skills are not transferrable across classes.[/quote]

This does not explain why the sten, a LIGHT WEAPON is affected by a heavy weapon skill. Its a bug. Anyone with common sense could see that.

(Pamper) #40

The game manual says exactly this: “your overheating Emplaced or Mobile MG will cool at twice the normal rate.”

The Sten is overheating, it is an MG, and it is Mobile. The manual is technically correct in terms of what weapons will be effected, even though this is clearly an oversight of game design.

Suggestion to fix this:
There are two skills that are messed up, because they’re more useful to classes that don’t earn them. HeavyWeapons2 is more useful for a Sten-weilding Covert Ops, and Covert 3 is helpful to soldiers with a mobile MG42.

HeavyWeapons2 (Heavy Weapon Proficiency) should be replaced with Heavy MG Proficiency, which applies to the Mobile MG42, emplaced MGs, and tank-mounted MGs. It gives you 50% less recoil, 33% more accuracy when firing a mobile-MG without deploying it, and (un)deploying the mobile MG takes 50% as long.

Covert Operations 3 (Breath Control) should be replaced with Improved Handling of Covert Guns: “Your careful maintenance of precision firearms means that your Scoped Weapons exhibit 50% less recoil and sway, and your Sten gun will fire 75% longer without jamming”. (That would let you shoot 28 of the 32 round clip, but the wait for it to cool off remains normal)