My idea to make Phantom truly recon, and make Thunder a better assault merc

(KayDubz) #1

This is a copy paste of my post in the recent Hotfix thread. Personally I feel like Thunder was nerfed with the removal of cooking his nades…and the removal of turn-limiters while concussed. Please share your thoughts.

Concussion/Stun grenades/Flash bangs should disorient a target. That means they should be slowed down and have poor aim. Simply being blind while being able to move freely isnt that helpful to the attacker at all.

I mean you already removed cooking the flash nades, so its much easier for opponents to notice the flash nade and turn away. Before, enemies at least had to also make sure to get a better distance away from the nade. Now getting away from its less important. Simply turn your back, and wait for the Thunder to walk in…even if you get somewhat “concussed”.

With that big hitbox of his, youll be able to kill him anyway.

As it stands, Id feel like the EMP would be better in the hands of a recon merc like Phantom…so he finally has a way to help his team aside from being played like an assault merc. People floated around that idea before…of Phantom being able to slip through defenses and disable deployables (without the flash of course).

The EMP seems like itd be much more useful to Phanton than to Thunder…because that was the added bonus of the Flash bang. But with the concussion now nerfed…Thunder is less useful as an assault merc.

The most logical thing to do in my opinion is to give Thunder a straight up stun/flash grenade that concusses people, can be cooked, but with no EMP. It makes no sense for him to have it. What other assault merc has something that isnt explosives or geared toward straight up killing?

And the EMP should go to Phantom. Put it in his shield…and make it similar to Pheonix healing…in that you have to be within a specific range to disable deployables. This would truly make Phantom a recon merc. He would be able to slip through human defenses unseen, while also disable automated defenses for his team.

(KayDubz) #2

TL;DR

Thunder should have a better concussion grenade. It needs to be cookable and concussed enemies should not be able to move freely, start a run, or be able to aim easily. Stun/Flash bangs need to reward an assault merc and make kills easier…like in many other shooters. No EMP for him.

Phantom should get the EMP and finally be able to have a true reconnaissance ability. His cloak at the moment doesn’t do much since he can be seen easily and the shield makes players use him as an assault class. Make the EMP similar to Pheonix’s ability in that you need to be within a specific range for it to work properly. Id say find a proper cooldown, make Phantom less visble…make the shield weaker or just remove it.

(cornJester) #3

ANYTHING to make Thunder’s nades feel like they actually do something… I’ve tossed the new concs into hallways and got concussion exp and they still hopped and moved around and shot me just fine.

(KayDubz) #4

Its bad right now. Because on top of moving freely, enemies also have their minimap and crosshairs even when blind it seems.

What did you think of my Phantom idea?

(cornJester) #5

Its bad right now. Because on top of moving freely, enemies also have their minimap and crosshairs even when blind it seems.

What did you think of my Phantom idea?[/quote]

It’s a decent one. I honestly don’t mind Thunder having the EMP but really I would be fine with this change. I like playing Phantom as he is but he certainly isn’t very team oriented. Thunder on the other hand is frustrating now…

(almondFlower) #6

@Kay-Dubz

Flash bangs don’t stun/daze enemies… they just blind you. Some1 trained wont panic by the flash. Sure they will not see a damn thing, but it’s not that difficult to move back to safety. Mercs are supposed to be trained to fight…

(KayDubz) #7

[quote=“almondFlower;118236”]@Kay-Dubz

Flash bangs don’t stun/daze enemies… they just blind you. Some1 trained wont panic by the flash. Sure they will not see a damn thing, but it’s not that difficult to move back to safety. Mercs are supposed to be trained to fight…[/quote]

Untrue dude. Maybe you need to speak to military personnel or experience it yourself. Stun/Flash grenades are designed to disorient you on top of blinding and deafening you.

The loud bang messes with fluid in your ear canals…and this causes you to tumble. Even trained soldiers will tell you flash bangs can stumble you. There’s only so much training you can do for those weapons…because flash bangs can cause permanent ear ringing…so its not like military personnel are constantly trained for flash bangs the way they go through harsh pepper spray testing.

(Grave_Knight) #8

[quote=“almondFlower;118236”]@Kay-Dubz

Flash bangs don’t stun/daze enemies… they just blind you. Some1 trained wont panic by the flash. Sure they will not see a damn thing, but it’s not that difficult to move back to safety. Mercs are supposed to be trained to fight…[/quote]

Eh, sort of. Both your visual and audio receptors are messed up by Stun Grenades (the name Flashbang comes from the flash and the loud bang it makes). You’re not just blind you also can’t hear anything and your equilibrium is messed up (this is a body chemistry thing so you can’t train to be unaffected).

(cornJester) #9

[quote=“almondFlower;118236”]@Kay-Dubz

Flash bangs don’t stun/daze enemies… they just blind you. Some1 trained wont panic by the flash. Sure they will not see a damn thing, but it’s not that difficult to move back to safety. Mercs are supposed to be trained to fight…[/quote]

This is incorrect but even if it was this game isn’t about realism. Many of the mercs show that. This about balance and Thunder is not balanced. His conc nades are useless. They barely effect the enemy at all. Why have a merc with a useless ability?

(CCP115) #10

Why don’t we make the conc nade disallow you to jump, hides your crosshair, makes your screen sway intensely, and make you move slowly, anything really.

Just don’t reduce my mouse sens, that is hands down the most obnoxious mechanic ever. I don’t mind being slowed and damaged, just don’t touch my mouse sens.

(signofzeta) #11

[quote=“CCP115;118320”]Why don’t we make the conc nade disallow you to jump, hides your crosshair, makes your screen sway intensely, and make you move slowly, anything really.

Just don’t reduce my mouse sens, that is hands down the most obnoxious mechanic ever. I don’t mind being slowed and damaged, just don’t touch my mouse sens.[/quote]

That, and make it so that when the flash is done, you are looking in a different direction.

Imagine you are trying to rush to the objective, and Thunder flashbangs you, and you hold the “move forward” button, only to end up going the wrong way, because the disorientation oriented you in the wrong direction.

I’ve been flashbanged in the game before, and I can still predict where I am going, but if the flashbang randomly orients the player in different directions, the player won’t know where they are truly going and will have to get their bearings straight.

([WAR]Larknok1) #12

[quote=“CCP115;118320”]Why don’t we make the conc nade disallow you to jump, hides your crosshair, makes your screen sway intensely, and make you move slowly, anything really.

Just don’t reduce my mouse sens, that is hands down the most obnoxious mechanic ever. I don’t mind being slowed and damaged, just don’t touch my mouse sens.[/quote]

How about: No weapons or abilities for 5 seconds? So – you know – a stun.

(gg2ez) #13

[quote=“almondFlower;118236”]@Kay-Dubz

Flash bangs don’t stun/daze enemies… they just blind you. Some1 trained wont panic by the flash. Sure they will not see a damn thing, but it’s not that difficult to move back to safety. Mercs are supposed to be trained to fight…[/quote]

Flashbang yourself, I f**king dare you. The stun isn’t dependant on whether or not the target panics, apart from blinding the victim, the flashbang temporarily disables the target’s hearing and disturbs the perilymph fluids in the ear - making the target lose balance, hence: stunned.

(KayDubz) #14

[quote=“gg2ez;118786”][quote=“almondFlower;118236”]@Kay-Dubz

Flash bangs don’t stun/daze enemies… they just blind you. Some1 trained wont panic by the flash. Sure they will not see a damn thing, but it’s not that difficult to move back to safety. Mercs are supposed to be trained to fight…[/quote]

Flashbang yourself, I f**king dare you. The stun isn’t dependant on whether or not the target panics, apart from blinding the victim, the flashbang temporarily disables the target’s hearing and disturbs the perilymph fluids in the ear - making the target lose balance, hence: stunned. [/quote]

Bingo.

Nevermind the potential for permanent hearing ear ringing. Flash bangs aren’t something you can really train to be resistant against. You just try to prevent being caught by one.

(Ctrix) #15

Honestly, a flashbang is a bad idea from a game design standpoint. There’s a reason they’re not commonly seen in any multiplayer games.
Flash bang grenades are inherently superior to normal grenades. And just being flashed and killed is a very non-interactive experience. Non-interactivity means no fun. That’s why they already removed the stun from the effects.
The entire concept is flawed, and they’ll never be able to properly fix it.

(Grave_Knight) #16

[quote=“CCP115;118320”]Why don’t we make the conc nade disallow you to jump, hides your crosshair, makes your screen sway intensely, and make you move slowly, anything really.

Just don’t reduce my mouse sens, that is hands down the most obnoxious mechanic ever. I don’t mind being slowed and damaged, just don’t touch my mouse sens.[/quote]

No to the first one, maybe to the second one, STRONG HELL NO to the sway, already kind of does that with the slow…

But, seriously, HELL NO TO THE SWAY. I turn off head bob for a reason, as many others do. I don’t want a power that forcefully turns head bob on just to give me motion sickness.

(EpicnesslvlMichiel) #17

The concs still need to do something though it feels like they don’t have any effect on the enemy at all. These are supposed to be good for these ‘breach and clear’ situations but you trow one rush in thinking they won’t be able to shoot you and you get killed almost all of the time. They feel really weak and almost useless at the moment his lmg is the only thing stimulating you to play thunder these concs need a more fierce effect on your enemies.

At least IMO so don’t kill me for saying this.

(LifeupOmega) #18

Bringing back the sens slow won’t do anything though, we’ll all just go back to using sens toggles because of how stupid it is to mess with someone’s aim.

(EpicnesslvlMichiel) #19

yeah sens is written in your brain mess with it and all of your orientation is gone but they should at least do some movement restrictions when hit with a conc.

(bontsa) #20

I would personally be just fine with making blinding work like smoke => no hp bars and goofery visible when blinded, concussion actually disturbing one’s aim (currently it feels to only wibble-wobble the screen visually, you can still just aim to dead-middle and hit everything, anyone with Mumble etc. crosshair layout to confirm this?) and significantly slow affected enemies down movement speed-wise. Wouldn’t hurt to make nades more bouncy too so you can popflash like in CS:GO, since apparently we ain’t getting cooking anymore.

Sensitivity restriction was harsh, harsh yet effective, but I don’t see any reason to re-add it if conc is made force to be reconed with otherwise.

“CONCSIDER THISS!”