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acQu · 2013-09-19 22:44:29 UTC

AFAIK there was no official statement on that yet.

Hundopercent · 2013-09-19 22:57:07 UTC

I know you all are waiting for big daddy zilla to drop his 2c in so here it is.

After reading most of the thread it still feels like a lot of players are unable to let go of their previous titles and prepare to embrace a new one. It’s understandable because of the false pretense set by SD with the W:ET magic etc.

The fact of the matters is this isn’t RtCW, ET, or QW 2. It’s XT. When you come to accept that, your experience here will be far less frustrating. It took me about 3 bans and 6 months to accept it but here I am Mr. Positive.

FireWater for the most part is right. If you don’t like the game and you quit. You will be replaced by another competitive player. Competitive players don’t bring casuals, it’s the other way around. I’m not going to get into CoD but I will say you are delusional if you don’t think it’s a rock solid game. You don’t need to be a fan of it to realize that.

Right now, with how small the hitboxes are, I would say 2 HS/6 BS could work. If they lowered RoF, Incresaed Hitboxes (including head), 3 HS/8 BS would work.

Tangent time:

Me personally? I’m far more interested in extremely unique mercs with more potent (not gimmick) abilities, ranked ladders, and the removal of sprint cancel.
I feel the only chance XT has right now, in it’s current alpha state is to really push how crazy the mercs can get (within reason.)

When I played leagued, I grew to like my champ. I liked Annie’s sadistic childish voice and trash talk. Right now, I have 0 attachment to any of the mercs. I pick Pyro because he’s the best but how much more would you like him if he tossed his nade and said, “Here comes the hot sauce.” and not only does the floor light on fire but the walls start to creep up in flames as well.

Without that, I don’t see why I would purchase another merc, or even try one. Mercs should be the selling point and they should be very unique.

So much more to say but no point as it’s been iterated 100s of times. Just have to be patient as the patches roll in.

trickykungfu · 2013-09-19 23:07:54 UTC

strychzilla is right about the mercs. Everything will build up on top of them. Especially tactics.

But this is the thing i really fear most. You don’t need Arti on maps without a EV or close combat. So you have to pick “buy” BBQ. So SD will never make this game not pay to win. In certain situations 1 buyable merc is much better then the 5 you already have.

I really feel fooled by SD…

I only stick around because its interesting to see how a game is developed and i really hope i will not say “look I said it will fail right from the start”

Hundopercent · 2013-09-19 23:32:14 UTC

[QUOTE=trickykungfu;471836]strychzilla is right about the mercs. Everything will build up on top of them. Especially tactics.

But this is the thing i really fear most. You don’t need Arti on maps without a EV or close combat. So you have to pick “buy” BBQ. So SD will never make this game not pay to win. In certain situations 1 buyable merc is much better then the 5 you already have.

I really feel fooled by SD…

I only stick around because its interesting to see how a game is developed and i really hope i will not say “look I said it will fail right from the start”[/QUOTE]

That makes it no more P2W than LoL.

Doesn’t mean you can’t rent a merc for a few days until you save up enough cash to buy him.

trickykungfu · 2013-09-19 23:39:09 UTC

sorry never played LoL or anything like it.

But i bet they never said LoL is not pay to win…

Hundopercent · 2013-09-19 23:47:39 UTC

[QUOTE=trickykungfu;471848]sorry never played LoL or anything like it.

But i bet they never said LoL is not pay to win…[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the derail here.

P2W is subjective. It can mean different things to different people. For me, as long as you can pay with in-game currency, it’s not P2W. For others, if it’s not a skin or it affects the game in anyway, it’s P2W. So for me LoL is not P2W to others it is.

trickykungfu · 2013-09-20 00:03:40 UTC

[QUOTE=strychzilla;471850]Sorry for the derail here.

P2W is subjective. It can mean different things to different people. For me, as long as you can pay with in-game currency, it’s not P2W. For others, if it’s not a skin or it affects the game in anyway, it’s P2W. So for me LoL is not P2W to others it is.[/QUOTE]

are there any kind of restriction playing LoL in cups?
Or is it like everyone who plays competitive, plays enough to have access to all mercs?

Dthy · 2013-09-20 00:25:04 UTC

[QUOTE=trickykungfu;471855]are there any kind of restriction playing LoL in cups?
Or is it like everyone who plays competitive, plays enough to have access to all mercs?[/QUOTE]

Afaik everyone who plays LoL comp has played long enough to buy all the champs with the in-game currency alone.

Volcano · 2013-09-20 00:40:07 UTC

even if they don’t, if its a major tournament the devs will just unlock them anyway

FireWater · 2013-09-20 05:52:48 UTC

I am assuming its speculation? It just seems like double work to me.

Nail · 2013-09-20 07:04:53 UTC

some of our Russian comrades have expressed dismay that their version has had movement speed slowed by %20 -%30

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/37745-Why-you-slowing-Russian-version?p=470108&viewfull=1#post470108

DarkangelUK · 2013-09-20 08:10:04 UTC

[QUOTE=strychzilla;471832]
After reading most of the thread it still feels like a lot of players are unable to let go of their previous titles and prepare to embrace a new one. It’s understandable because of the false pretense set by SD with the W:ET magic etc.

The fact of the matters is this isn’t RtCW, ET, or QW 2. It’s XT. When you come to accept that, your experience here will be far less frustrating. It took me about 3 bans and 6 months to accept it but here I am Mr. Positive.[/QUOTE]

What I don’t get is this pendulum effect that’s happening, for every person that wants ET2, ETQW2 etc there’s someone shouting that nothing should be used from the old games… yet it’s ok to advise using the best bits of CoD? It’s understandable that people want to take what worked from those games and add it in here, just seems a few people are quick to believe that when one aspect is asked for, they think everything is being asked for. FireWater was right in one respect, look and see what made those games successful and learn and use them, just accept that the older games are part of that equation as well.

stealth6 · 2013-09-20 09:12:37 UTC

Well I like the fact that with a longer TTK it’s not the first person that shoots that wins a gunfight, it’s the first person that aims. Imo in DB it’s still too fast as others have suggested I’d still like to see a slight increase in damage and a big decrease in ROF. (Well at least that’s what I think I want, without being able to hear gun shots properly it’s pretty hard to judge)

I agree though that the movement system isn’t exactly ideal either, I have a better time at dodging bullets in BF3 than I do in DB*,but imo to just go full CoD would just be silly. There are already so many games with low TTK you might as well change the name to <generic fps>. (As you already said they coined the name MMS for all these shooters that are the same… We don’t really need another)

*ofc this is also dependant upon the average distance (map size), spread and bullet damage drop off too.

Another reason not to go for low TTK is next year we’re going to see BF4, TF & CoD:Ghosts which all have low TTK, so you’re going head to head with those titles and I think they’ll win.

Also what DAUK said.

acQu · 2013-09-20 12:41:25 UTC

Yes, in short: the movement and the gunplay are not fitting at all. If you make the guns like CoD, then at least the shooting will feel satisfying. That is a fact, think about it What is currently satisfying about the movement? What is satisfying about the gunplay? Nothing? Oh, lets just combine Nothing + Nothing and get 2 Nothing = AWESOME!!!

With a fast TTK and less spread you at least get back a bit of “BOOOM HEADSHOT BABY”, or at least a fast and quick kill. Forget the skill thing, really? I think it just hurts. Let the comps make their community on their own, i think they are getting not the game with xT they want. The skill, especially in movement, is fundamentally reduced. And you want to tell me you have fun with the movement system, pros? Does it feel good running around slowly in the streets with long TTK. I honestly think pros somehow don’t even know what they want. They just sit there, put their “oh so well thought out 1 sentence keep itshort sentences” there, if at all. Glad at least some put those 1 sentences out there ^^ But i have not yet heard anyone of those ever saying something controversial or what they feel might fundamentally improve the game, except a few, sometimes banned (lol), exceptions. This attitude is not bringing us everywhere

EDIT Because as you might already noticed: the guns have no power and no satisfaction behind them. Combine this with the movement system and you get just one part of the core gameplay which is fundamentally broken, and sorry to say, boring. The maps surely contribute as well. I have no idea why, for example, questions from me about sideroutes are simply ignored or not answered at all. And i have asked polite.

Hundopercent · 2013-09-20 14:24:21 UTC

[QUOTE=acQu;471945]Yes, in short: the movement and the gunplay are not fitting at all. If you make the guns like CoD, then at least the shooting will feel satisfying. That is a fact, think about it What is currently satisfying about the movement? What is satisfying about the gunplay? Nothing? Oh, lets just combine Nothing + Nothing and get 2 Nothing = AWESOME!!!

With a fast TTK and less spread you at least get back a bit of “BOOOM HEADSHOT BABY”, or at least a fast and quick kill. Forget the skill thing, really? I think it just hurts. Let the comps make their community on their own, i think they are getting not the game with xT they want. The skill, especially in movement, is fundamentally reduced. And you want to tell me you have fun with the movement system, pros? Does it feel good running around slowly in the streets with long TTK. I honestly think pros somehow don’t even know what they want. They just sit there, put their “oh so well thought out 1 sentence keep itshort sentences” there, if at all. Glad at least some put those 1 sentences out there ^^ But i have not yet heard anyone of those ever saying something controversial or what they feel might fundamentally improve the game, except a few, sometimes banned (lol), exceptions. This attitude is not bringing us everywhere

EDIT Because as you might already noticed: the guns have no power and no satisfaction behind them. Combine this with the movement system and you get just one part of the core gameplay which is fundamentally broken, and sorry to say, boring. The maps surely contribute as well. I have no idea why, for example, questions from me about sideroutes are simply ignored or not answered at all. And i have asked polite.[/QUOTE]

I know what I want.

The real question, that has been left unanswered for about 10 months now is, What does SD want? What are they planning for XT? What is being worked on? What can we expect in the next few months?

You see, I can’t provide quality feedback or suggestions without a direction. I can bitch, moan, and be like every other “30 yr old established pro gamer from 12 years ago” or I can not waste my time or energy, stare at empty servers all night, and hope that at some point SD will take the time to give us an adequate work in progress post with a progression bar on each topic (I’m talking core mechanics and gameplay, not art.) Basically, how can I say X, Y, and Z are good/bad when I don’t know what A is. A being the final product.

This is why many players feel they are building without an architect. This is also why many players feel this will be Brink 2.0 and asked for a refund. The last real update we got, was that they are focusing the game on mercs. Aside from random nerfs, I havent seen much dramatic changes to mercs in 2+ months.

Weee, another chunk of my time wasted. -_-

spookify · 2013-09-20 15:31:49 UTC

COD Match Making and Console (PS3 and xBox) Play style sucks for PC!! There’s like 12 play styles in COD and I only liked and played 2 of them they rest sucked! I agree COD is popular but how Popular is it for PC and take that and divide it by 12 game mod’s… I waited for sometime 30 minutes in-order for that stupid match making crap to put me with a full server… And the server needs to be somewhat full to lock in the players…

Hundopercent · 2013-09-20 15:56:51 UTC

I wouldn’t want CoDs MM. CSGO is superior. It would be 5v5, SW for ranked. Unranked I could careless. Probably 5v5 OBJ. All the other modes should be dedicated servers.

acQu · 2013-09-20 17:59:59 UTC

[QUOTE=strychzilla;471953]I know what I want.

The real question, that has been left unanswered for about 10 months now is, What does SD want? What are they planning for XT? What is being worked on? What can we expect in the next few months?

You see, I can’t provide quality feedback or suggestions without a direction. I can bitch, moan, and be like every other “30 yr old established pro gamer from 12 years ago” or I can not waste my time or energy, stare at empty servers all night, and hope that at some point SD will take the time to give us an adequate work in progress post with a progression bar on each topic (I’m talking core mechanics and gameplay, not art.) Basically, how can I say X, Y, and Z are good/bad when I don’t know what A is. A being the final product.

This is why many players feel they are building without an architect. This is also why many players feel this will be Brink 2.0 and asked for a refund. The last real update we got, was that they are focusing the game on mercs. Aside from random nerfs, I havent seen much dramatic changes to mercs in 2+ months.

Weee, another chunk of my time wasted. -_-[/QUOTE]

Direction is pretty clear to me. As it was in the beginning since we joined alpha. We proposed some movement changes and they listened to us, making side-ward strafing more responsive. For me this was the most important change so far in this alpha. But … there was a mistake. SD did not see our complete view of the things, nor did we saw theirs.

They way i see it: SD shifted their working crew. Who on the current team really was involved in the core design of W:ET or ET:QW. ET:QW probably a bit more, but still … there was id in the background, shaping things.

Also, i feel, since almost noone of their old crew from W:ET is leftt, and even more importantly, i feel the current crew played W:ET only half-heartedly and doesn’t really like it, they are making false compromises with us and the direction is pretty much twisted now. That is why i said it would be interesting to play the Russian version now. Imo you go full retard one or the other way: all the way CoD, with slight adjustments, or all the way twitch shooter with nice movement and longer TTK. Everything in between are false compromises.

They made some good changes to the characters, i admit that. This has a lot of potential, but then again lol, they locked themself into this MMS world Well, maybe i am not totally seeing the sense in it yet, but a LoL-kinda world, with superheros, would have made so much more sense considering the direction they are now taking with the chars.

And well. I waste my time also i guess. I was never kinda the guy who could bring a word through the nice way Only when i switched on “troll-mode” i feel there is an ear given. And also: it is said: SD should learn from all the games and put stuff together. Well, they always looked to other games, they never extended and developed their own style. The result can now be seen with xT. A mixture of everything without character.

More or less, however i feel the core game stands. And that core game for me is mainly the movement and the “slowness” combined with TTK. Its simply not feeling right. That is why i propose CoD weapon style, because i think that fits better to the current movement system.

INF3RN0 · 2013-09-20 18:56:21 UTC

I understand that SD is reluctant to “over-complicate” the game, however what I don’t understand is if there is indeed match making would a lot of things actually be problems? The goal is to present the casual gamers with something they can quickly break into and understand at a necessary level, but have to work hard to master. The game still has to feel functional and complete at a low level too, so making the game too dependent on certain mechanics might be disasterous. That should mean that at the lowest level players feel like they can play and receive the encouragement to continue forward. That doesn’t however mean there can’t be more ahead though. I think the best that can be done is to convince SD why certain things would not be “necessary” to enjoy or play the game if players were grouped by their skill levels. I think the game needs a lot more to add to the experience, but that won’t be really utilized except at higher levels of play. After all one of the really attractive aspects of a game is discovering new things to master or different approaches to something you already understand. Dynamic play and the ability to vary your style adds a huge amount of playability.

Anyone who has played Dota2 and LoL will understand the reality of what a player would go through in a game that is easy to learn at a basic level, but offers a fair skill gap in terms of teamwork VS a game that is by comparison vastly more complex in every aspect of basic game play, but is more rewarding to intelligent and skilled individuals. This is obviously an FPS game, which is why I consider the skill cap much lower than a MOBA. Xt is very easy to learn, but it’s also not very hard to be good at either nor is the individual experience that interesting as of yet. The one thing about FPS is that it is an supersaturated genre, so at the same time Xt is going to need to offer a recognizably unique experience in as many places as possible. A lot of things are over-simplified like the ability to traverse a map/environment as well as offering few dynamic elements, the gun play is too character dependent and in general feels a bit under rewarding, character abilities don’t always give enough definition, which leads to a fairly underwhelming and unmemorable experience for those who want to play a game casually long term. It’s been said the game isn’t anywhere near completion in terms of final development, so I’ve given it the benefit of the doubt that it will improve enough to offer an experience unique and interesting enough to stick out.

Crispy · 2013-09-21 03:52:35 UTC

Matchmaking is key to fostering and evolving an audience, while also allowing the top level of players to compete with the very best. I don’t believe you need to ‘dumb’ down the game to provide a gradual learning curve. It’s more about presenting players with the basics and opening up the deeper facets of the game over time. Staging a learning curve is a lot more effective than throwing everything at the player at once. Not everyone wants to play Dwarf Fortress.