My Feedback

[FireWater]

Hey all,

I just wanted to provide some feedback on the Extraction Alpha.

First of all I think the design is pretty solid. The movement speed is pretty decent, the pacing of the game and spawning seemed like when you got a kill it was rewarding, but when you died you didn’t need to sit in queue for about 3 minutes to get back in (aka CS).

I like the maps, though the escort maps (espeically the one with the elevator) I feel like can set teams up for failure, if they didn’t have enough accomplished pre-ojective. If there is going to be an escort, make it so there are minimal impediments, OR make the opposing force create the bunkers like in some maps. This I think is better overall.

I especially like the trainyard map, I feel its pretty fast paced, and works well with scrimmages (I had the privledge to play a few).

I saw TotalBiscuits preview of extraction, and I have to agree that I do not like how spongy my opponents are.

I get that the developers want to reward headshots, and they should. I feel that both headshot and body shot damage should be increased, to make the weapons feel like they have some punch, and that players have a better chance when engaging multiple opponents.

Here is a post about eSports I made on the Titanfall forums, and I think it applies to Extraction as well.

ts important to remember a few things with regards to eSports.

1. There is no shortage of people that would love to play video games for a living. Developers need to recognize an important fact: Devs have the leverage. So for all the complaining and whining that some bitter competitive vets do, it can largely fall on deaf ears if the game is big enough because those people aren’t necessary as they are easily replaceable when with a large game population.

Example: League of Legends when it was first testing was said by many hardcore DotA fans that it was going to fail because it was a “noob game” because you couldn’t last hit your own minions. Few years later there were over 300,000 people watching the PAX Tournament stream with an important fact: A lot of the teams that were playing, started their professional careers in LoL. A lot of those older players flocked to HoN or whatever and nobody really cares about that game anymore, despite it being “more complex”.

2. Its not as much fun to watch video games as it is to play them. Which is why PAX and Gamescom hold much more value in gamer’s minds than the likes of an E3. So if somebody is going to watch a video game, the person or company streaming should have an EXCELLENT reason for doing so.

3. eSports is such a small sub-sector for many games, and often a lot of competitive gamers feel entitled and/or bitter becuase they are “the best”. For most companies, it doesn’t even make sense to start an eSports division as there really isn’t a link between eSports and sales, at least in the PC FPS realm.

Look at what happened with FireFall. ESL ran a tournament, Red 5 paid them $30,000+ to cast, organize and distribute prizes for the Go4FireFall series. The top two teams kept winning (they deserved to win they were the best teams) and entry level teams kept getting matched up against them in the first rounds with single elimination. Those teams quit, and there is supposed to be a large prize tournament at the end of the month ($10,000 total) with only 4 teams signed up because Red 5 went top heavy with eSports.

Viewers for the first week were 200, second week 100, third week, 60 and I don’t even think they did the fourth week. They delayed the monthly tournament until mid-september to get some teams back. But for the most part a lot of competitive teams, including my own, wrote the game off and switched to other games.

Bare in mind this was no easy task for me: I was flown out to Red 5 studios to give feedback as a community member, I met them at every PAX East where they were demoing the game. I’ve participated in Beta discussions directly with the developers etc… A game I was once loved and followed for literally 3 years is now an after thought. the PvP is so flawed that it requires immense focus fire to be successful at, which most teams cannot do. There are other mechanics that broke the game as well.

Now the FireFall forums have been flooded with jaded gamers as a result of this tournament, heavily criticizing the game and making jabs any time they can. If I were a developer, I would simply ignore that community and maybe even cancel the eSports part of the game just because of all the negativity it brings.

FireFall’s core PvP is terrible for the entry level player due to a medium-high TTK (time to kill) meaning that it requires more sustained aim than the average player can output.

Actually after I wrote this, FireFall’s PvP has been effectively shut down, the bitter PvP community won!

Anyways.

The key again is to make this game accessible to as many players as possible. Pros will rise to the top, regardless of what changes are in. I for one don’t believe a pro mod is necessary for competitive play, maybe access to a few cvars to change the round time or objective times etc…

People generally want to play the same game they want to compete in, I think just balance the play for the masses, and the best will rise from the top from there.

[Rex]

I feel that both headshot and body shot damage should be increased, to make the weapons feel like they have some punch, and that players have a better chance when engaging multiple opponents.

Lol, so that we die in 0,0001 secs? The ttk is already incredible low. I have no idea how lowering the ttk even more would give players better chance when engaging multiple opponents.

1) There is no shortage of people that would love to play video games for a living. Developers need to recognize an important fact: Devs have the leverage. So for all the complaining and whining that some bitter competitive vets do, it can largely fall on deaf ears if the game is big enough because those people aren’t necessary as they are easily replaceable when with a large game population.

Strongly disagree. Should they be replaced by the CoD masses? :rolleyes:
And by the way what you call ‘complaining and whining’ helps to improve and shape the game.

[QUOTE=FireWater;471331]
3) eSports is such a small sub-sector for many games, and often a lot of competitive gamers feel entitled and/or bitter becuase they are “the best”. For most companies, it doesn’t even make sense to start an eSports division as there really isn’t a link between eSports and sales, at least in the PC FPS realm.

blabla…FireFall…blabla.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, what’s your point?

[potty200]

Reading what you put about firefall is a bit odd. I suppose a better way around this would be to announce a PRIZED event for DB but not right after release. Instead of having loads of small ones just aim for one big one. This way teams won’t think “Screw this Team A will win the money anyway”.

[OwNLY]

about the enemys being bullet spongy
If you think the enemys eat too much bullets, you are:
-playing the game too slow (lots of ADS, not much movement in the infight)
-the game is too slow
-the weapons don´t do enough damage
-mistaking the weapon sounds for actual shots

But overall you are right, the game feels to slow for the current TTK.

about Firefall:
I have tried the Multiplayer a few months ago.
It felt like it was exactly what XT is heading towards.
Lots of mercs with lots of abilities that grants you free kills.
Maybe the ball playing mode was somewhat competetive, but the gameplay was bull****.
Too slow,
and too much unnecessary stuff that gives the crowd the illusion that they were performing good in a “high skilled” game.
All these overpowered classes (Accord Biotech, this fast firing railgun, the LG that disables movement, most of the assault with ultra easy rockets, etc).
Giving out this much money for eSport on a not finished game was the biggest mistake they could make.
And Teams like Epsilon had already months of training behind them before the Cups were announced.

[FireWater]

Lol, so taht we die in 0,0001 secs? The ttk is already incredible low. I have no idea how lower the ttk even more would give players better chance when engaging multiple opponents.

Lower TTK helps with engaging multiple opponents by having skilled aim requiring less ammunition (potentially not even reloading) than with a higher TTK. Someone who is flanking may have a better chance of having a clutch play, than with a higher TTK.

Strongly disagree. Should they be replaced by the CoD masses? :rolleyes:
And by the way what you call ‘complaining and whining’ helps to improve and shape the game.

And most PC FPS games that have “help to improve and shape the game” fail. ET:QW had competitive players consult, that worked out great. Brink well we all know what happened there. FireFall had professional teams come in, their PvP is gone. There hasn’t been a real competitive PC FPS title since CS 1.6, and W:ET. Right now PC has to compete with consoles which is a significantly cheaper alternative than the PC. RTS and MOBA are immune to this right now because they are not playable on console. Top players will be top players regardless. Also when feedback is given, it is often given in the context of how it will make the game better for the person providing feedback, and not the game overall. Very rarely do I see players say “Hey that assault rifle I use quite proficiently might be a little overpowered, you may want to take a look at that” its more like “I’m losing to XXX and that needs to be fixed because its the game’s fault I am losing” Even from “vets”.

So I am not sure where the CoD comments are coming in, but there are professionals playing on console making a more than livable salary, where as a lot of competitive PC FPS players communicate like they are professional basement dwellers: large vocabulary, not sure what the words mean

The bottom line is focusing on the top 1% of players will not help this game be successful. FireFall did that and their parent company is on the verge of bankruptcy because of poor design decisions.

So Splash Damage can continue with the Status Quo PC FPS, or they can try to do something different.

Sorry, what’s your point?

I am so sorry if I wasn’t clear:

People have to feel good about playing the game, before they care about watching the game, or care about its competitive scene. Firefall has failed to do this despite having really decent PvP in early betas.

Extraction potentially has that ability. But they need feedback from as many different types of players possible. Not just the PC FPS pros, and not just the players who pick the game up for the first time.

The primary reason to be engaged in gaming, is to play, not to watch. If people are going to watch, they need a REALLY good reason to. Spectators is what helps eSports grow, not just having top players come to the game. I don’t want Extraction to become a “nobody cares after a few months” title that many PC FPS titles have become. I really want to see some longevity, which will ultimately help the competitive scene out. Unfortunately, many comp players that I have met are very short sighted, and are largely ineffective at providing feedback for the game overall, especially when it is NOT in their own special interest.

I think that should be clear now, don’t you?

[FireWater]

Reading what you put about firefall is a bit odd. I suppose a better way around this would be to announce a PRIZED event for DB but not right after release. Instead of having loads of small ones just aim for one big one. This way teams won’t think “Screw this Team A will win the money anyway”.

The point is FireFall went top heavy too soon. It didn’t provide an opportunity for entry level players to compete, just the very best. This was a huge flaw in my opinion, and now people are going to get fired over it.

[FireWater]

[QUOTE=OwNLY;471349]about the enemys being bullet spongy
If you think the enemys eat too much bullets, you are:
-playing the game too slow (lots of ADS, not much movement in the infight)
-the game is too slow
-the weapons don´t do enough damage
-mistaking the weapon sounds for actual shots

But overall you are right, the game feels to slow for the current TTK.

about Firefall:
I have tried the Multiplayer a few months ago.
It felt like it was exactly what XT is heading towards.
Lots of mercs with lots of abilities that grants you free kills.
Maybe the ball playing mode was somewhat competetive, but the gameplay was bull****.
Too slow,
and too much unnecessary stuff that gives the crowd the illusion that they were performing good in a “high skilled” game.
All these overpowered classes (Accord Biotech, this fast firing railgun, the LG that disables movement, most of the assault with ultra easy rockets, etc).
Giving out this much money for eSport on a not finished game was the biggest mistake they could make.
And Teams like Epsilon had already months of training behind them before the Cups were announced.[/QUOTE]

I was told to limit ADS, which has improved my KDR, and still with that I feel that a decent buff would be nice.

I am assuming that weapon hit noises are actual hits. This may be a flaw in my feedback.

with regards to Firefall:

Red 5 bet the farm that Jetball the “COMPETITIVE ESPORTS MODE WITH TOP PLAYER FEEDBACK” was going to save PvP. PvP in FireFall is effectively eliminated, and they are focusing on PvE play. They stated that only 3% of the active FireFall community actually PvPed, so clearly by spending time and money on any game modes not addressing the 97% of players that actually do play the game, is stupid and a waste of time and resources. So any eSports positions, such as Rhoulette the eSports maven will probably be eliminated. They fired their entire marketing team and are 20 million in Debt, with their parent company bleeding revenue betting on Firefall will be a success.

Epsilon and top teams did have pre-access to the Jetball game mode, and they were the ones that were winning the tournaments.

The bottom line is that a game like FireFall had a LOT of promise. and now is on life support partly due to in my opinion, ineffective community feedback and several re-designs off of that feedback.

FireFall has been created about 3 different times. each time getting progressively worse, because at the end of the day, its not the community that loses out entirely when a game fails, the designers, coders etc… lose their jobs. Us community members can just latch on to another game and hope it takes off. These developers might not be able to jump to the next game company if a game fails.

This is why community feedback needs to be focused, direct, and reality based. Don’t be a Red 5 Studios.

[OwNLY]

I doubt that teams like Epsilon really approved of the last state of the Jetball/PvP mode.
I think it was more like XT. Top players in the alpha, “shaped by gamers”, but no real feedback from top players gets into the game.
And i doubt that the Jetball/PvP-Mode has cost that much of money, with mostly re-used maps from PvE.
(or PvP maps re-used in PvE?)
FF had a nice idea behind the gameplay, but they overdid it.
More content does not equal better a game. Sometimes less is more.
And they had already pay-2-play in PvP, only mercs you have paid for or played for hundreds of hours could be used in “highly competetive PvP”.
Since these Battlesuits were not really balanced, the game had p2win in the beta state.

There are a lot of similarities between FF and XT. I see exactly the same happening in the future of XT.

[FireWater]

They were the ones that gave the most feedback.

They weren’t invited to the studio with a top american team to give feedback.

Jetball was in development for at least 6 months, and lasted about 2 since being released on 7/8/2013. That has to be some sort of record.

Firefall’s PvP is vastly different from XT. TTK was much higher to the point where focus fire was needed a large % of the time to get kills. Execute bonus was very strong. HKMs (ult abilities) were game breaking, etc…

Trust me I played FireFall for over 2 years, I was in the first 500 beta testers, XT is not near that level. XT is in a better state, and I think it can be improved, by lowering the TTK by a little bit, and testing that.

If I’m wrong than so be it, I am fallible, however I think in this instance, I would be right and I don’t think I am alone in that matter.

[OwNLY]

You might be right about that, i have FF only played for 2 weeks.
I thought the games movement speed was too slow, the projectiles of most weapons were too fast.
HKMs were a joke. I didnt even use them and went to hillariouly high K/Ds until i get high ranked and had to play against other top players like Epsilon…

For XT i would trying to increase the movement speed instead of lowering the TTK. The current spread works good in fast gameplay.
In both cases the gameplay would get better.

But SD wants to add more and more abilites like in FF. Even HKMs, here they are called “Tiers”.
Easy kills for anyone who can push a button. Push any buttton to win.

[Kiris]

1. I really hope they don’t just turn up the damage on all guns. This would be silly. I believe current damage is fine except some guns need to be balanced (LMG, SG, AR). This game has a niche player-base composed of people from W:ET, ET:QW, Brink, etc. Changing the fundamentals of the game to get a larger community of CoD scrubs is not what we want.

2. E-Sports bring a lot to the game in means of hype and publicity. Also, the whole thing Watching Vs. Playing is complete bull****. It depends on the person and the game we’re talking about. For example, I have about 1000 hours played in DOTA2 and probably over 2000 hours watched on Twitch/dotaTV. Either way, E-Sports is an important part of this game. It has already been announced to be e-sport friendly so people have expectations.

[spookify]

[QUOTE=FireWater;471331]Hey all,

I just wanted to provide some feedback on the Extraction Alpha.

First of all I think the design is pretty solid. The movement speed is pretty decent, the pacing of the game and spawning seemed like when you got a kill it was rewarding, but when you died you didn’t need to sit in queue for about 3 minutes to get back in (aka CS).

I like the maps, though the escort maps (espeically the one with the elevator) I feel like can set teams up for failure, if they didn’t have enough accomplished pre-ojective. If there is going to be an escort, make it so there are minimal impediments, OR make the opposing force create the bunkers like in some maps. This I think is better overall.

I especially like the trainyard map, I feel its pretty fast paced, and works well with scrimmages (I had the privledge to play a few).

I saw TotalBiscuits preview of extraction, and I have to agree that I do not like how spongy my opponents are.

I get that the developers want to reward headshots, and they should. I feel that both headshot and body shot damage should be increased, to make the weapons feel like they have some punch, and that players have a better chance when engaging multiple opponents.

Here is a post about eSports I made on the Titanfall forums, and I think it applies to Extraction as well.

ts important to remember a few things with regards to eSports.

1. There is no shortage of people that would love to play video games for a living. Developers need to recognize an important fact: Devs have the leverage. So for all the complaining and whining that some bitter competitive vets do, it can largely fall on deaf ears if the game is big enough because those people aren’t necessary as they are easily replaceable when with a large game population.

Example: League of Legends when it was first testing was said by many hardcore DotA fans that it was going to fail because it was a “noob game” because you couldn’t last hit your own minions. Few years later there were over 300,000 people watching the PAX Tournament stream with an important fact: A lot of the teams that were playing, started their professional careers in LoL. A lot of those older players flocked to HoN or whatever and nobody really cares about that game anymore, despite it being “more complex”.

2. Its not as much fun to watch video games as it is to play them. Which is why PAX and Gamescom hold much more value in gamer’s minds than the likes of an E3. So if somebody is going to watch a video game, the person or company streaming should have an EXCELLENT reason for doing so.

3. eSports is such a small sub-sector for many games, and often a lot of competitive gamers feel entitled and/or bitter becuase they are “the best”. For most companies, it doesn’t even make sense to start an eSports division as there really isn’t a link between eSports and sales, at least in the PC FPS realm.

Look at what happened with FireFall. ESL ran a tournament, Red 5 paid them $30,000+ to cast, organize and distribute prizes for the Go4FireFall series. The top two teams kept winning (they deserved to win they were the best teams) and entry level teams kept getting matched up against them in the first rounds with single elimination. Those teams quit, and there is supposed to be a large prize tournament at the end of the month ($10,000 total) with only 4 teams signed up because Red 5 went top heavy with eSports.

Viewers for the first week were 200, second week 100, third week, 60 and I don’t even think they did the fourth week. They delayed the monthly tournament until mid-september to get some teams back. But for the most part a lot of competitive teams, including my own, wrote the game off and switched to other games.

Bare in mind this was no easy task for me: I was flown out to Red 5 studios to give feedback as a community member, I met them at every PAX East where they were demoing the game. I’ve participated in Beta discussions directly with the developers etc… A game I was once loved and followed for literally 3 years is now an after thought. the PvP is so flawed that it requires immense focus fire to be successful at, which most teams cannot do. There are other mechanics that broke the game as well.

Now the FireFall forums have been flooded with jaded gamers as a result of this tournament, heavily criticizing the game and making jabs any time they can. If I were a developer, I would simply ignore that community and maybe even cancel the eSports part of the game just because of all the negativity it brings.

FireFall’s core PvP is terrible for the entry level player due to a medium-high TTK (time to kill) meaning that it requires more sustained aim than the average player can output.

Actually after I wrote this, FireFall’s PvP has been effectively shut down, the bitter PvP community won!

Anyways.

The key again is to make this game accessible to as many players as possible. Pros will rise to the top, regardless of what changes are in. I for one don’t believe a pro mod is necessary for competitive play, maybe access to a few cvars to change the round time or objective times etc…

People generally want to play the same game they want to compete in, I think just balance the play for the masses, and the best will rise from the top from there.[/QUOTE]

Fire I played with you last night for a little bit and it was you and me vs 3 others and we rolled.

We should have never dead to the other team but the body shot’ed us to death it was very frustrating. Body should should be reduced. It was also very hard to get multiple head shots in a row while strafing. It did not feel like i was aiming but rather keeping my aimer head level and hoping. Something needs to be done. I will take my self down a notch as I havent really played the past few updates so I do not have the aim down yet so that is why i spammed aim at head level instead of tracking.

[acQu]

[QUOTE=Kiris;471382]1) I really hope they don’t just turn up the damage on all guns. This would be silly. I believe current damage is fine except some guns need to be balanced (LMG, SG, AR). This game has a niche player-base composed of people from W:ET, ET:QW, Brink, etc. Changing the fundamentals of the game to get a larger community of CoD scrubs is not what we want.

2. E-Sports bring a lot to the game in means of hype and publicity. Also, the whole thing Watching Vs. Playing is complete bull****. It depends on the person and the game we’re talking about. For example, I have about 1000 hours played in DOTA2 and probably over 2000 hours watched on Twitch/dotaTV. Either way, E-Sports is an important part of this game. It has already been announced to be e-sport friendly so people have expectations.[/QUOTE]

Are we really a niche? Unarguably, W:ET is one of the best FPS of all time. There has to be a reason. Imo it is because of the movement + the very balanced weapons + the objectives and great maps mainly, to only pick some. Everything i just mentioned i feel needs alot of work in xT.

But, there seems to be a “Zeitgeist” applied to FPS games somehow. No clue what i am trying to say anyway … just, there is something wrong. xT does not catch me! SD Zeitgeist also shifter immensly. I don’t recognize alot of the flair from their old games. Seems just they want to go down the money train. Not feeling the passion.´in their games either, as can be seen from their .exe title aka “shootergame”. Yes, just a shooter. If you are not excited about what you create, how can we?

EDIT the fact that we are regarded as a niche simply comes from the other fact that SD shifted its gaming style. Now all which is remembering of their old games is the objective style. But that is about it. The maps + movement are MMS. Weirdly enough with some ET TTK mixed in. How can you know that we are a niche if the market simply failed to deliver products that serve that “niche”. I am sure it will not be regarded as a niche anymore if once one of the old products which are similar in gamestyle like W:ET come “reincarnated” to the market again. It does not have to be WW2 theme, just the playstyle and the arcade feeling, the movement, and the genious maps. SD simply fails to recognize that this is the role that they should have kept expanding on in the past. Learn from their own genre and making it better from version to version. Example game who does that: GTA. The same thing all over again, but from version to version better and better… They learn from their own worlds and perfect their own style. SD did not do that. They shifted and hence they are making it uneccessarily hard for themself. And don’t get me wrong. The innovation aka MOBA FPS (not MMOFPS); that should have been the thing they should have incorporated in their old playstyle games. It would have been far more sophistacated and better if they were refining their “product-line” in the last decade. But as i said: they shifted and pretty much left their old playstyle to shift to the money cow aka MMS. The MMS genre is their base game now. Starting all over again and competing with other giants which are in the genre much longer. Why are you making it so hard for yourself SD. I am not getting it …

[ImageOmega]

I think a lot of what FireWater is saying is very valid. My huge concern with Extraction and it moving towards closed beta is that we are going to have new players coming in and voice the same problems we have been voicing for months. However, it being in a closed beta stage, would that be enough to throw negative light on Extraction right away since there are some big flaws in the core gameplay?

The positives of Extraction is that they made some huge leaps in terms of movement throughout the Alpha. I think the genuinely listened to what we had to say and made changes based on that for the better. Examples being would be the increased jump height, same lateral and backward speed as forward, and uninterrupted forward running speed after jumping. The only thing left on the list is the enable being able to sprint and reload. <-- I’m never going to give that up.

The FireFall analogy is relevant because what FireWater is describing is what I’ve seen these forums devolve into. Just look at this thread. A player or a developer starts offering criticisms and is immediately thrown under fire (hmmm…that’s a lot of usage of the word fire already). Is this what kind of alpha community we are going to be known for? Are we going to be the bitter forum posters that FireWater described as we move towards closed beta? I think there is a lot of bitterness because there is a lot of disagreement between the members. The separation between us is that there is a huge variance of skill, experience, competitive play, and gaming knowledge. Plus there is a lot of pretentious players that have voiced their opinions in a way that would have been accepted by their former small gaming communities. ANYWAYS, there are also a lot of players with great feedback and critiques on many posts. Those players seldom seem to post anymore because of what the forums have devolved into.

The point being that there is an outcry here for what needs to be changed in the game, but we’re not being given any more glimpses of what is being looked at. Take a look at that sticky thread DB Feature “Road Map”. It was last updated May 10th, 2013. I’m sure a lot of that list is still “being looked at”, but I’m sure a lot has changed or even been implemented. I think it is silly that we continue to provide feedback, but aren’t always being given feedback back on what is happening in the office. Of course I’m not asking for a dedicated Splash Damage peon to tell us all the secrets and reply to each one of our posts. I am simply saying that sometimes we have these long threads that may not even be relevant at all because it is a pointless discussion not even on Splash Damage’s list of cares. It was voicing this exact issue that got that DB Feature “Road Map” posted, so maybe we need another.

My posts are always too long so I’m going to end it there. I will say this regarding current TTK: I like it as it stands is because if someone gets the jump on me I have a good chance to turn and kill him first. I wouldn’t have a real problem with lowering it, or reducing body shot and increasing headshot damage. I think weapon spread is key to all of that. But, more importantly, I think the value of a player’s life in-game needs to be raised (due to spawn timer tweaking) because people are quick to rush in and die. If that’s the way they play, they should be penalized for it by waiting around more. You learn and get better from this.

[FireWater]

[QUOTE=Kiris;471382]1) I really hope they don’t just turn up the damage on all guns. This would be silly. I believe current damage is fine except some guns need to be balanced (LMG, SG, AR). This game has a niche player-base composed of people from W:ET, ET:QW, Brink, etc. Changing the fundamentals of the game to get a larger community of CoD scrubs is not what we want.

2. E-Sports bring a lot to the game in means of hype and publicity. Also, the whole thing Watching Vs. Playing is complete bull****. It depends on the person and the game we’re talking about. For example, I have about 1000 hours played in DOTA2 and probably over 2000 hours watched on Twitch/dotaTV. Either way, E-Sports is an important part of this game. It has already been announced to be e-sport friendly so people have expectations.[/QUOTE]

CoD sold massive amounts of copies before it was eSports hype, its not needed to run a successful FPS. You are actually proving my point with your DOTA2 watching/playing. sure you watched more hours, in a game that YOU ACTUALLY PLAY.

What is wrong with having a massive COD playerbase? Do you really see yourself as a “better” gamer than them? If so than PC FPS players are truly the hipster of online gaming. “We were here before it was cool” is such a ****ty mentality that needs to die out before any PC FPS game can have a decent shot at being successful, both casually and competitively.

Such an attitude is a cancer to any community. And this is exactly why we can’t have nice things in the PC FPS community.

[acutepuppy]

Tribes: Ascend development saw a huge meltdown that definitely started in the “bitter veterans/alpha community” category.

I honestly think the TTK is okay for the first few rounds, it just seems like you die too quickly at a distance, and burst fire is hardly even needed. I spend a lot of my time dying before I have a chance to react in XT, and I know I’m not that bad at the game. A large enough player pool could solve this problem a bit more naturally, too.

Yes, Sprint+Reload would help immensely, immediately.

Also, why does everyone bring up CoD CONSTANTLY?

[FireWater]

I’m not sure why everybody hates CoD so much. I haven’t seen too much non-hipster rationale explanation behind it. I personally think to some people its an automatic “I win” button to horribly attempt to an invalidate an opposing side. I wish PC FPS had the same amount of players playing as console FPS.

LoL I got called a Filthy casual because I said CoD does somethings right, again, the old guard is the reason we can’t have nice things

[OwNLY]

Because CoD was the beginning of the end.

The cancer, the big abomination that has influenced years of bad FPS games.
But they sell well. Yes. I appreciate that FPS is being played by a bigger audience, but for what price?
We had CS, we had Quake, we had W:ET, we had BF2, we had fukken good FPS games.

But then CoD came, compressed the skill ceiling into the basement, and players were finally able to play FPS on a console.

I hope this kind of games die a horrible death.
It is one of the reason eSport is not recognized as a real sport. Anyone can do it.
You and 10 friends can play against the spain national soccer team and score a point because the goals are as wide as the whole field.
Kickoff -> goaaaaaaal you are the greatest!

[INF3RN0]

Firewater’s posts on the necessity of esports and the mentality of competitive players is very true. I should know since I used to be a pretty blind sighted competitive player who felt entitled to a lot when it came to games.

I do however think that the argument towards the best weapon system is a bit difficult to prove one way or another. The ability to get multi-kills should really be there and the time to get them should be as greatly separated between players as possible, however making lower skilled players feel somewhat enabled to get multi-kills on their own play level is important too. Having other skill curves in place in movement for example helps to increase the skill gap in shooting since it effectively expands the gap. I think the focus should be making the game playable and enjoyable at every skill level, but allow the skill gap between the highest and the lowest to be very big.

I still think that a drastically low RoF and an increase in overall damage would be the best method personally, as every player clearly would feel the individual impact of bullets and there would never be any complaints about “the guns take too long to kill or kill too fast”. Though it’s probably too late for that now unfortunately.

[FireWater]

[QUOTE=OwNLY;471418]Because CoD was the beginning of the end.

The cancer, the big abomination that has influenced years of bad FPS games.
But they sell well. Yes. I appreciate that FPS is being played by a bigger audience, but for what price?
We had CS, we had Quake, we had W:ET, we had BF2, we had fukken good FPS games.

But then CoD came, compressed the skill ceiling into the basement, and players were finally able to play FPS on a console.

I hope this kind of games die a horrible death.
It is one of the reason eSport is not recognized as a real sport. Anyone can do it.
You and 10 friends can play against the spain national soccer team and score a point because the goals are as wide as the whole field.
Kickoff -> goaaaaaaal you are the greatest![/QUOTE]

Then how come we don’t see top PC FPS Players just going over to console to dominate the “bads”.

Also eSports is not recognized as a real sport is because the only people that care about watching games, are gamers themselves.

I think the whole CoD argument is poor, and it just comes across as bitter. If we want more people to pay attention to eSports, then you need to get people involved. The good ole PC FPS days are done, console is here and stole the scene away. We need to deal with that by making the community more attractive, as well as developing better gameplay.

CoD is NOT a bad game. It became popular for a reason, we just don’t like that fact because we may be bitter because most people care about that game, and not ours.

I for one, am tired of being bitter. I’m tired of jumping from game community to game community because there are very few stable PC FPS games out there. I think extraction could be a stable game, due to its F2P nature, it needs to be constantly updated. If that means the game needs to be more like CoD to accomplish that, so be it.