my concerns with turtle

(bizarreRectangle) #41

Most of this argument is probably mostly-pointless as the merc isn’t even released. In kandyrew’s video he tests out turtle’s deployable cover. When he melees the wall it emits green smoke. Unless this is just some stupid bug (which is possible) maybe the wall does have a defence mechanism which will make it better. Also if turtle gets more than one deployable cover like fletcher’s sticky bombs or mines, it will probably make him eons more viable and give a lot more options. Depends on size.

To shoot explosives over the wall you would have to go at a certain distance where the wall (or area right behind wall) will be at the exact location where the explosives will land (since it goes in an arc). Turtle can easily reclaim the wall to avoid incoming artillery or laser (since it’s pretty noticeable if the marking laser is right next to you). All this is made obselete by high ground (even without explosives) depending on distance.

Many indoor areas, objective points are tight enough where a deployable cover can block off enemies or at least hinder them so they will take a long enough time to go over the cover to alert the turtle.

We’re all making assumptions however. There are so many ways to go, we can’t really discuss this before turtle is even released.

I hope he gets more than one deployable cover.

(Bojangles) #42

C’mon it feels like you’re not even trying to think up any possible uses for it at all! Has your inner child died completely thus reducing your imagination to nothing?

You yourself do not have to remain stationary, just the wall. There is no reason you have to stay behind the wall. Much like Bushwacker’s turret, it will probably have to rely on creativity and surprise to get maximum effectiveness out of it. Get some backup from another player or two, and a little surprise can make a huge difference. And a bit of planning can help make things go your way.

(jazevec) #43

I don’t believe you’ll be able to put the wall anywhere, look how limited the turret placement is! And the wall is not made of rubber, it won’t fit every single passage perfectly. You’ll see for yourself. And in the incoming meta Stoker will be just one of the many mercs to ruin your day. There will be pressure to play as Fletcher, because just a single Stoker can lock down a C4 zone for 10 seconds (40 second cooldown).

As for creativity, you’re talking to the guy who regularly puts a turret on the sniper balcony (Underground) as offense, and that’s just one example. But a turret has range, it doesn’t have to fit perfectly to work.

I’ll try putting the wall on a pipe leading to Underground roof. If people can’t get over it, then I declare it’s an okay ability. But it looks like you can just jump over it!

(jazevec) #44

Yup, I just tried the turtle shield. It’s very glitchy, but two things became clear immediately:

  1. You can jump over it unless it’s on stairs or a slope. Even if it is, you might be able to wall jump above it.
  2. They’re trying to restrict placement as much as possible. In particular you can’t put it down close to a wall, making it hard to use as a ladder. And the maps are full of invisible walls. Forget jumping over gate on Trainyard, etc.
(Bojangles) #45

Well, I mean the merc hasn’t been released yet so I’m not surprised his shield is still glitchy. I don’t think it’s quite fair to judge his shield on what you can spawn in the console.

It seems like you’re thinking of scenarios that could only be used for Turtle himself and not for the team. How you help your team with your tools, and how your team utilizes the advantage is part of using engineers.

(jazevec) #46

“The team” tends to run around like headless chickens on pubs. Dropped medpacks, healing stations etc are usually ignored.

(bizarreRectangle) #47

It depends, I’ve had servers where the people made very good use of my smoke and health stations.

Your arguments are based entirely around assumptions, you are so sure yet the merc isn’t even released yet! Testing the buggy unreleased shield you simply spawned on a console isn’t really going to help your arguments either.

I think what will determine his viability is the amount of walls he gets (2 would be perfect), the area they cover and the amount of health they get. And maybe the guns he gets, I think he gets smg 9 too which is cool. Hopefully he gets the arnold shotgun since only 2 other mercs have it.

(jazevec) #48

My arguments are based around the assumption that being stationary is bad in this game. It’s a solid assumption. Look how much good ironsights does you versus moving unpredictably. People don’t even use cover much. Why would they suddenly start just because it came from an ability ?

Someone above said Turtle has 2 shields. There is no way to know. If you use the command, it simply replaces your current item with the specified item. If you do it as Proxy, you get 3 shields because she has 3 mines. My bet is on 1 shield - all big deployables are limited to 1, and this is the biggest.

(Bojangles) #49

It feels weird quoting myself but I didn’t feel like typing up “You don’t have to stay behind it” again.

The only times you would need to be stationary is to defuse C4, help up a teammate, or repair an objective. It sounds smart to set that up before you do those actions, or you can set it up for a teammate who is already performing those actions (assuming you ever find a team of non-headless chickens).

I’m telling ya, players will find ways to put that wall to use that will surprise you. I intend to be one of them exploring the possibilities of making that wall useful.

(jazevec) #50

[quote=“Bojangles;100312”]
I’m telling ya, players will find ways to put that wall to use that will surprise you. I intend to be one of them exploring the possibilities of making that wall useful.[/quote]
The most surprising thing about Turtle is that he comes from Turkey.

(Bojangles) #51

That shouldn’t be surprising considering Turkey began constructing a wall along the Turkey/Syria border.

(Bojangles) #52

Which is probably why he won’t be coming out with the next patch. He’s too busy protecting the world from ISIS, one useful wall at a time :stuck_out_tongue:

(bizarreRectangle) #53

Yes me too, I really want to see how I could utilize the wall. Just hope they don’t make it too small.

(jazevec) #54

Okay, suppose the wall is really great for planting C4. What happens when the Turtle is killed afterwards? It protects the person disarming it! So to be a good turtle, you need to stay there and fight tooth&nail, or… reclaim the shield.

(Bojangles) #55

Yeah that’s a good point, I suppose I was operating under the thought that I would have teammates to back me up there. But that’s a very likely scenario and teammates aren’t always reliable.

(Samniss_Arandeen) #56

Let us rest our weapons on the wall for increased accuracy, kind of like an ad-hoc machine gun nest.

(jazevec) #57

More generally, the shield is a second ability - after smoke - that has a big potential to hurt your team. Enemies can utilize it, so you have to consider where you’re placing it. Will it help them if you die ?

It can block view of your teammates. It can block the view of turrets. It can just block movement for your teammates, and may become griefer’s weapon of choice(smoke lasts only a few seconds). Underground - last defense spawn: place your shield to block exit. You can do so by putting it on the pipe, or at the right exit. Not everyone knows how to wall jump past barriers.

I can certainly see dropping the shield for Vasili. Most of them are lazy and predictable.

Hobo MG ? Because normal mounted MG isn’t enough of a bullet magnet :slight_smile: