my concerns with turtle

(3N1GM4) #21

A moveable wall sounds fun on other games. Though I question its purpose in game where wall jumping is a key movement mechanic. Most of those choke points that bojangles posted would be easily hopped over. I can only really see this being useful as a plant/deliver protection and as an obstacle on indoor maps (lookin at you underground). Would that be worth the investment over another engineer, probably not.

If the shield was something more like the shields in HALO where they arch over the player behind it.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/2/25/H2_covshieldsteps_t.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/450?cb=20090426025338

Or… if instead of the wall it was more of a bubble (again halo) that would last for say, 3-5 seconds, would be obliterated by an orbital laser in about 1s or mostly by an air strike. That would be immensely useful as an engineer.

(Bojangles) #22

Yeah I thought that would be an issue as well. Without playing around with it myself it is difficult to say how viable my ideas are. I figure placement is key. If wall jumping is needed then it might just hinder enemy movement. Making someone take two-three attempts is always a positive when they’re not there to add their bullets to the fight. Putting it at door ways or at the top of stairs/ramps seems like where it would be the most effective.

One potentially frustrating spot to put it could be, as defense on terminal, would be on the left entrance where the defenders come out. Attackers tend to rush that area and damming up that spot would be very beneficial to the defenders. Just make sure you get there before the attackers do, it’ll be close!

(Rosenkreuz) #23

If he could move the wall instead of drop and forget, what would you think of Turtle then?

(Bojangles) #24

That’s strange, I was expecting this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ANN_2qU0Q

(Yoshimoto) #25

turtle reminds me of braum for some reason http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Braum_0.jpg

(SereneFlight) #26

Well… git gud… really. I mean… it shouldn’t be that hard to figure out good placements for the shield… and it doesn’t blind your own team like hell just like noob Redeyes do.

(Grave_Knight) #27

He’ll just require more critical thinking. He won’t be any harder to use than say Bush or Proxy, only without the benefit of a murder device.

(Bojangles) #28

No, but if allies cannot pass through it then there’s definitely some trolling potential by blocking avenues and approaches for your team :s

(SereneFlight) #29

There was a video about Turtle’s ability and if it’s gonna be anything like it, you can easily jump over it since it will only give you a cover when you crouch.

Amen.

(Sir_Slam) #30

Now the real question is, will the Bushwhacker be able to peak over it by juuuuuuuust enough. :stuck_out_tongue:

Turtlewhacker op.

(gg2ez) #31

[quote=“Sir_Slam;97892”]Now the real question is, will the Bushwhacker be able to peak over it by juuuuuuuust enough. :stuck_out_tongue:

Turtlewhacker op.[/quote]

2 Bushwhackers, 1 Turtle.

*sexy music starts playing.

(JJMAJR) #32

Maybe hitting the area behind the wall would result in critical damage? So if players come up to an unattended wall they could just go around and hack it apart?

(Rosenkreuz) #33

[quote=“gg2ez;98281”][quote=“Sir_Slam;97892”]Now the real question is, will the Bushwhacker be able to peak over it by juuuuuuuust enough. :stuck_out_tongue:

Turtlewhacker op.[/quote]

2 Bushwhackers, 1 Turtle.

*sexy music starts playing. [/quote]

Whacking in the Bush to the tune of Singing in the Rain.

(ProfPlump) #34

[quote=“Yoshimoto;18745”]most of you probably know that theres an unreleased merc called turtle. basicly he’s an objective specialist with a deployable shield. my concerns are that he’s gonna be really hard to play to new players, since good shield placement will most likely be crucial to this merc, and he seems not to have the same kind of kill potential as any other objective specialist. i mean, we have proxy with her mines, fletcher with his stickeys, and bushwanker with his turret. even though i really wouldn’t mind having a different type of objective specialist, im concerned about his viablility. im pretty sure hes gonna need something more than this small shield. since he carries it around on his back, why not make him take reduced dabage from the back?
what do you guys/gals think?[/quote]

We’ll have to wait and see, but I must admit that I would take a Turret over a placeable cover almost any day. Barricades just seem way too situational… That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if they became incredibly overpowered in combination with Sawbonez or Aura’s healing abilities - dropping medpacks and stations behind the barricade would be very powerful.

Also, it’ll be interesting to see if putting up a barricade will block a turret’s line of sight on you like other low barriers do…

(jazevec) #35

I think the merc will be trash. How useful can a wall be in a fast paced game ?

Note how fussy Healing Station and Turret are about placement. I doubt you will be able to place the wall in half of the places mentioned, much less “block” a path. The best you’d be able to achieve is to limit enemy movement while you’re aiming at the wall, making it harder for him to dodge.

Also, most likely enemies will be able to use your wall! Enemy comes, somehow kills you and starts hiding behind your shield. Like ammo station feeding enemies, but worse. Why build something that may become enemy cover ?

I think building outside will be a suicide:

  • Airstrike
  • Artillery
  • Orbital laser
  • Vasili
  • Sparks

In addition to Fletcher, Nader, Fragger, and Stoker. Their abilities work everywhere. Really, it seems half of the game’s mercs will counter Turtle.

(Grave_Knight) #36

[quote=“jazevec;98851”]Also, most likely enemies will be able to use your wall! Enemy comes, somehow kills you and starts hiding behind your shield. Like ammo station feeding enemies, but worse. Why build something that may become enemy cover ?[/quote]The assets version of his wall releases smoke when you melee it. There is a chance that the released version might release the same smoke upon take any damage and hurt any enemy near by. So enemy takes cover behind wall suddenly the wall gets shot by friendlies and smoke starts kill the enemies hiding behind the wall.

Also, I doubt Vassili or Sparks can damage the wall much. I’d imagine that it would have protection against explosives (probably be like killing the EV), and Fire Support powers aren’t a constant. Furthermore the wall is high enough that you can take cover from snipers when crouching.

You should consider that a wall could make repairing the EV much easier. Consider the first part of Chapel or Bridge. In Chapel you can put a wall next to the Attacker’s side of the EV making it fairly difficult for Defenders to attack you without running around the EV. On Bridge you’d be able to at least cut off one flank and if you have nearby allies you won’t have to worry much about enemies from the other flank.

Also consider setting C4 in Terminal. If you get into the corner, set your wall, and arm the C4, the defenders will have a hell of a time getting to you especially if the damage smoke really is a thing. The same for the second part, you can set a wall in front of the container (this would also be effective for Defenders). In Underground you can potentially cut off the Defender’s route into the objective area (you can also, as a Defender, make it a bit harder to get through the doors even after they’re blown) and in the second area you can set the C4 then place a wall behind it so Defenders have to expose themselves just to disarm (or as a Defender place it so you don’t have to be exposed to Disarm).

(Yoshimoto) #37

i think that the amount of health the wall will have will decide if the merc is good or not.
how much health do you guys think it should have?’
i think that it would be proper to give it an EV amount of health.

(jazevec) #38

[quote=“Grave Knight;98909”][quote=“jazevec;98851”]Also, most likely enemies will be able to use your wall! Enemy comes, somehow kills you and starts hiding behind your shield. Like ammo station feeding enemies, but worse. Why build something that may become enemy cover ?[/quote]The assets version of his wall releases smoke when you melee it. There is a chance that the released version might release the same smoke upon take any damage and hurt any enemy near by. So enemy takes cover behind wall suddenly the wall gets shot by friendlies and smoke starts kill the enemies hiding behind the wall.
[/quote]
That’s a lot of wishful thinking. Why would a wall emit smoke that hurts enemies ? Sounds like something from a Blizzard game.

Also, I doubt Vassili or Sparks can damage the wall much. I’d imagine that it would have protection against explosives (probably be like killing the EV), and Fire Support powers aren’t a constant. Furthermore the wall is high enough that you can take cover from snipers when crouching.

That’s not what I meant. Snipers are great against stationary, predictable targets. When you deploy the wall, anyone behind it becomes such a target. You’ll be dead as soon as 2 pixels of your body are exposed.

You should consider that a wall could make repairing the EV much easier. Consider the first part of Chapel or Bridge. In Chapel you can put a wall next to the Attacker’s side of the EV making it fairly difficult for Defenders to attack you without running around the EV. On Bridge you’d be able to at least cut off one flank and if you have nearby allies you won’t have to worry much about enemies from the other flank.

Considering not even smoke grenade can do that, I fail to see how a sheet of metal would. If attackers are not stupid, they surround EV from many sides, and there’s constant artillery shelling from above.

(Grave_Knight) #39

[quote=“jazevec;99132”][quote=“Grave Knight;98909”][quote=“jazevec;98851”]Also, most likely enemies will be able to use your wall! Enemy comes, somehow kills you and starts hiding behind your shield. Like ammo station feeding enemies, but worse. Why build something that may become enemy cover ?[/quote]The assets version of his wall releases smoke when you melee it. There is a chance that the released version might release the same smoke upon take any damage and hurt any enemy near by. So enemy takes cover behind wall suddenly the wall gets shot by friendlies and smoke starts kill the enemies hiding behind the wall.
[/quote]
That’s a lot of wishful thinking. Why would a wall emit smoke that hurts enemies ? Sounds like something from a Blizzard game.

Also, I doubt Vassili or Sparks can damage the wall much. I’d imagine that it would have protection against explosives (probably be like killing the EV), and Fire Support powers aren’t a constant. Furthermore the wall is high enough that you can take cover from snipers when crouching.

That’s not what I meant. Snipers are great against stationary, predictable targets. When you deploy the wall, anyone behind it becomes such a target. You’ll be dead as soon as 2 pixels of your body are exposed.

You should consider that a wall could make repairing the EV much easier. Consider the first part of Chapel or Bridge. In Chapel you can put a wall next to the Attacker’s side of the EV making it fairly difficult for Defenders to attack you without running around the EV. On Bridge you’d be able to at least cut off one flank and if you have nearby allies you won’t have to worry much about enemies from the other flank.

Considering not even smoke grenade can do that, I fail to see how a sheet of metal would. If attackers are not stupid, they surround EV from many sides, and there’s constant artillery shelling from above.[/quote]You realize the smoke not be smoke when released. I could actually see it turned into an electric blast. Considering we already have electric reactive armor on tanks, deployable cover with electric reactive armor is not far fetch. In fact I’d imagine walls suffer from less damage from explosions because of this.

You put too much stock in Snipers. And are they really going to just watch one single wall while a bunch of other targets are running free? Sounds like they’ll get easily flanked.

Smoke can’t stop bullets, or people, a wall can. And it seems the asset build comes with two walls.

If you can’t think critically than of course you can’t find uses for walls.

(jazevec) #40

You overestimate usefulness of being stationary in a fast-paced game. This merc will be effectively slower than Rhino. And this wall thing will probably be the opposite of creative - several good spots will be memorized, nothing else will be tried other than for laughs. It will be the least flexible engineer ability for sure.