Monthly balance tweaks of '15

(everlovestruck) #1

Any chance SD brings those back?
That would give the players a feeling of hope that SOMETHING is being done.
It also encourages them to try out how freshly rebalanced stuff plays, bringing back those who left the game a while ago.

(AlbinMatt) #2

Tweaking the game every month would just break any meta created within those say… 3 weeks? However, Dirty Bomb does need a lit of tweaks at the moment.

(n-x) #3

@AlbinMatt We are talking about tweaks and not complete overhauls. And I would prefer playing with some suboptimal value of whatever it is for 2-4 weeks than several months like it is now.

(frostyvampire) #4

I hacked into Splash Damage’s computers and found the patch notes for the next May Fine Tuning update

-Removed Proxy
-Renamed the map “Dome” to “Dockyard”
-Increased PDP damage to 70 but decreased clip size to 7
-Increased Redeye’s smoke duration to 25 seconds
-Aura now costs 50,000 credits to unlock
-Vassili is now free and all new players receive him

(x3mytiz) #5

[quote=“frostyvampire;c-227352”]…
-Renamed the map “Dome” to “Dockyard” “Dickyard”
…[/quote]
Fixed just a little misspelling.

(GatoCommodore) #6

i wouldnt mind a changing meta every 3 months just to make it not boring

(GatoCommodore) #7

*edit

(Press E) #8

Maybe not monthly, these things take time to properly study. Each change changes how the game plays and needs to be studied to determine of more action is needed. Changes for the sake of changes won’t make the game more balanced, SD should release them when they’re ready and sure it’ll improve the game.
Though I definitely do wish SD would focus on balance and content at the same time. Switching between one or the other for long periods just gets boring.

(onLooSe) #9

Thank god this is a beta… oh wait… I got confused :smiley: Is it?

(K1X455) #10

That same move decimated the playing population of Massive’s Tom Clancy’s The Division. They call the move, “build diversity” and it’s taking them over 6 months to realise how the so called build diversity cannot be supported with the limitations and nerfing they have done to game mechanics because a small population of YouTubers are dictating how the game is instead of how the actual population is playing the game.

I won’t give you a disagree, but the current balance of mercs in DB is finely tuned such that no player can dominate a Team V Team of equal skill. There are of course, exceptions but you’ll just have to look at a bigger picture.

(Melinder) #11

Can’t see the bigger picture when your screen is grey.

(K1X455) #12

Can’t see the bigger picture when your screen is grey.

[/quote]

You do understand that the throwing distance of his flashbang is limited, right?

(Eox) #13

Can’t see the bigger picture when your screen is grey.

[/quote]

You do understand that the throwing distance of his flashbang is limited, right?[/quote]

That does not prevent him from running whole games alone. That flashbang is poorly skill indexed, borderline unpredictable and incredibly frustrating. You almost always get blinded at random intervals by a concussion grenade that never, ever, showed up on the screen and wasn’t even targeting you. It gets you killed unfairly or slows you down in an obnoxious way. Thunder shouldn’t be able to use a conc mid-fight, and that concussion grenade shouldn’t have such a low and unfair fuse time. The width of the flashing effect should probably be more severely restricted as well.

And I’m not even talking about him when he wields the Stark AR. He’s already the most painful thing in DB to deal against by himself, but access to the Stark is the nail in the coffin. Why he’s always banned in DBN competitions is no mysteries.

(K1X455) #14

[quote=“Eox;c-227402”]
That does not prevent him from running whole games alone. That flashbang is poorly skill indexed, borderline unpredictable and incredibly frustrating. You almost always get blinded at random intervals by a concussion grenade that never, ever, showed up on the screen and wasn’t even targeting you. It gets you killed unfairly or slows you down in an obnoxious way. Thunder shouldn’t be able to use a conc mid-fight, and that concussion grenade shouldn’t have such a low and unfair fuse time. The width of the flashing effect should probably be more severely restricted as well.

And I’m not even talking about him when he wields the Stark AR. He’s already the most painful thing in DB to deal against by himself, but access to the Stark is the nail in the coffin. Why he’s always banned in DBN competitions is no mysteries.[/quote]

Easily, had SD implemented cooking the grenade in a similar fashion the way Fragger does his grenades, it would have required more skill and commitment to use the flash bang. Throw it too early and it will be nearly always avoidable; throw it too late and he’ll be vulnerable as anyone and will be his health is his mitigating factor. Any player with less than ideal health values will think twice in making the commitment to cook and throw. I wouldn’t say that the FB grenade cooking isn’t technically a nerf, but rather a balancing iteration, just like any other balancing changes SD has made.

As for the Stark, while it is much improved since it’s last iteration, again it’s only Thunder’s health pool and those pocketing him that is his saving grace from anyone else. I’ve played as Proxy against a good Thunder and we double teamed the player in US East and while we’re equally matched, team work, timing, and tracking was something we used against him. 1v1, yes I might lose depending on map location and latency. But once he throws FB, the 15 second window of opportunity to take him out at distance was taken advantage of by either fire support or sniper. If he does commit to taking out a concussed player, the opportunity to gain grounds extends, he’ll either withdraw and lose grounds afterwards, or take the chance of holding ground to an advancing group of players with faster movement speed.

I still feel that the Stark’s burst fire spread is too wide compared to the BR-16; and the scope… hip firing doesn’t give you that much range to deliver precise burst, and ADS, is just very situational. Also, note that Thunder’s movement speed isn’t as fast as most mercs and on open grounds, he’s an easy target. It’s around corners and areas where he can bounce of grenades in close quarters that makes him OP.

All up, Thunder’s utility got increased to the point where most players think he’s OP, and of course, FF being on, the playing population didn’t notice that coordinating the gameplay with him is key (as in calling out when he’s going to throw the FB). If players just recall how how rock-paper-scissors work, Thunder won’t be as OP as players think he is, in the same way as Phantom was when he was first released. Players then learned that Nader was the way to take out an enemy Phantom with her Martyand because the squishy type mercs were being taken out as well , both got nerfed; the rest was history.

(x3onn) #15

Easily, had SD implemented cooking the grenade in a similar fashion the way Fragger does his grenades, it would have required more skill and commitment to use the flash bang. Throw it too early and it will be nearly always avoidable; throw it too late and he’ll be vulnerable as anyone and will be his health is his mitigating factor. Any player with less than ideal health values will think twice in making the commitment to cook and throw. I wouldn’t say that the FB grenade cooking isn’t technically a nerf, but rather a balancing iteration, just like any other balancing changes SD has made.

His grenade had to be cooked like Fragger’s grenade when he was released, if I remember correctly. He just got overbuffed when they “remade” the grenade and for whatever reason increased his hp by 10 while nerfing Fragger hp by 10 same patch. Right now he is a walking joke balance wise, ability to spam his grenade every 15 seconds is hilarious for the effect it has.

All up, Thunder’s utility got increased to the point where most players think he’s OP, and of course, FF being on, the playing population didn’t notice that coordinating the gameplay with him is key (as in calling out when he’s going to throw the FB). If players just recall how how rock-paper-scissors work, Thunder won’t be as OP as players think he is, in the same way as Phantom was when he was first released. Players then learned that Nader was the way to take out an enemy Phantom with her Martyand because the squishy type mercs were being taken out as well , both got nerfed; the rest was history.

What coordination? You don’t even get blinded by friendly flashbang, only stunned if it hits on top of you. If you tell me that Nader was a counter to Phantom at his release because she could Martydom him, I can’t take you seriously. What “counters” Thunder if rock-paper-scissors work right now? Perhaps a sniper but snipers are even bigger problem balance wise in this game.

(K1X455) #16

[quote=“x3onn;c-227584”]What coordination? You don’t even get blinded by friendly flashbang, only stunned if it hits on top of you. [/quote] Are you sure? You don’t get blinded by friendly flashbang? Where are you getting this from? I hope you’re not telling this out of experience from playing in pub games, cause it’s one of the reasons why Thunder is nearly always B A N N E D in DBNation tournaments.

[quote=“x3onn;c-227584”] If you tell me that Nader was a counter to Phantom at his release because she could Martydom him, I can’t take you seriously. [/quote] I hazard to guess you were’nt there that’s why you can’t take me seriously. The effect of removing an enemy Phantom from Nader’s Marty means that Aura or Sparks can be spared; and you do understand what it means for the team… or are you thinking otherwise?

[quote=“x3onn;c-227584”]What “counters” Thunder if rock-paper-scissors work right now? [/quote] Really? You do realise that Thunder has a large hit-box, do you? Should I explain further?

(bgyoshi) #17

@K1X455 Stop trying. You literally can’t convince salty players that Thunder’s FB isn’t as good as they’re taste buds tell them he is.

Once I learned you can turn around to avoid being blinded by FB, I stopped getting flash banged, ever. The grenade is even highlighted bright red, and it flashes too.

(ostmustis) #18

[quote=“bgyoshi;c-227590”]@K1X455 Stop trying. You literally can’t convince salty players that Thunder’s FB isn’t as good as they’re taste buds tell them he is.

Once I learned you can turn around to avoid being blinded by FB, I stopped getting flash banged, ever. The grenade is even highlighted bright red, and it flashes too.[/quote]

it also flashes you offscreen and concs you regardless of where you look

(x3onn) #19

I didn’t play or see any Thunders before ranked came out so I can’t say for sure if it did that before, because I was playing only PUG matches where he is banned by default, but after ranked season 2 came out, his flashbang has not blinded his teammates even with friendlyfire on. I can confirm this by playing him or with him multiple times with same result.

I’ve literally played in every DBN tournament I’ve could since the start of DBN and I can tell you the reason why he is banned there almost every time is not because friendly flashbangs, he is banned because he is simply too strong :neutral:

I’ve played from the start of open beta so yes I was there back then, running katana only Phantom in publics ruining everyone’s day.

We clearly have different approach to the game, if you prefer to blow yourself up to sacrifice for your teammate, be my guest.

You could explain a bit further. Are you saying that Thunder’s big size makes him weak?

(K1X455) #20

There’s nothing I can do to say to anyone who’s got fixed mindset. Like any other merc, if a good player handles him, he’ll be powerful. How about Redeye? Have you seen SD’s footage on why he got nerfed? Come on, how many videos/montages have you seen highlighting ridiculous kill streaks? Tell me you haven’t seen any and I’ll try to convince myself that the world is flat.

I’ve played in DBN, PUGs and in ranked, have seen some footages of videos and have played with and against Thunder players. FF is on and IT IS DEFINITELY FLASHING AND CONCUSSING team mates if a Thunder player detonates his FB in close proximity. If you’re claiming that Thunder is too strong of a merc, than you obviously haven’t come to a situation where both teams leveraged the strength of Thunder and not experienced well enough to warrant any of your claims. Again, where are you getting your this from?

[quote=“x3onn;c-227606”]
I’ve played from the start of open beta so yes I was there back then, running katana only Phantom in publics ruining everyone’s day.[/quote]Hope you enjoyed it cause Kira has a katana now too.

Simple analogy.

Thunder/Fragger = Tank

With that in mind, do you know what an anti tank is?

Here’s a small clip where I leveraged distance against a tank and a support: