I might get offscreen flashed once every 600 flashbangs, it’s hardly a problem
Conc is worthless I don’t even bother trying to avoid it. I can still see and aim just fine and can commonly take more than half a STARK Thunder’s health while conc’d
Monthly balance tweaks of '15
x3onn
(x3onn)
#22
There’s nothing I can do to say to anyone who’s got fixed mindset. Like any other merc, if a good player handles him, he’ll be powerful. How about Redeye? Have you seen SD’s footage on why he got nerfed? Come on, how many videos/montages have you seen highlighting ridiculous kill streaks? Tell me you haven’t seen any and I’ll try to convince myself that the world is flat. [/quote]
Did I claim Redeye is not overpowered? I mentioned I think snipers are huge issue in this game aswell, same as Thunder and burst rifles are. I’m not sure what Redeye nerf you’re talking about because he has barely got nerfed unless you count his weapons.
[quote=“K1X455;c-227609”][quote=“x3onn;c-227606”]
I didn’t play or see any Thunders before ranked came out so I can’t say for sure if it did that before, because I was playing only PUG matches where he is banned by default, but after ranked season 2 came out, his flashbang has not blinded his teammates even with friendlyfire on. I can confirm this by playing him or with him multiple times with same result.
I’ve literally played in every DBN tournament I’ve could since the start of DBN and I can tell you the reason why he is banned there almost every time is not because friendly flashbangs, he is banned because he is simply too strong :neutral:
[/quote]
I’ve played in DBN, PUGs and in ranked, have seen some footages of videos and have played with and against Thunder players. FF is on and IT IS DEFINITELY FLASHING AND CONCUSSING team mates if a Thunder player detonates his FB in close proximity. If you’re claiming that Thunder is too strong of a merc, than you obviously haven’t come to a situation where both teams leveraged the strength of Thunder and not experienced well enough to warrant any of your claims. Again, where are you getting your this from? [/quote]
What name do you go by ingame? I’ve never seen you in DBN pugs or cups if you use the same name as you have here. Go in empty server with friendly fire on and try out the flashbang, it does not blind your teammates even if it lands infront of them, it only stuns them. If your argument is that Thunder is not overpowered when you can counter him with another Thunder, that is really stupid.
Where am I getting this from? I have tons of experience playing with the better players in this game daily in PUG matches and in cups. I’ve been around the competitive scene almost 2 years, formed my own team called fake Elite, and now I’m one of the people responsible for the community stuff at DBN. I understand you have your own opinions and that is completely fine. I’m just saying my opinion and also most of the veteran players’s opinions since I think I have pretty good view of the competitive scene overall.
[quote=“K1X455;c-227609”][quote=“x3onn;c-227606”]
I’ve played from the start of open beta so yes I was there back then, running katana only Phantom in publics ruining everyone’s day.[/quote]Hope you enjoyed it cause Kira has a katana now too.
Simple analogy.
Thunder/Fragger = Tank
With that in mind, do you know what an anti tank is?
Here’s a small clip where I leveraged distance against a tank and a support:
[/quote]
I’m aware there are heavier mercs and light mercs in the game, but I’ve never heard there is such thing as “an anti tank” in this game. Do you have some secret Rocket launchers to take out the enemy’s frontline? Do share what you consider an anti tank please!
I don’t understand what’s the point of your clip? Please enlighten me.
K1X455
(K1X455)
#25
[quote=“x3onn;c-227635”]
Did I claim Redeye is not overpowered? I mentioned I think snipers are huge issue in this game aswell, same as Thunder and burst rifles are. I’m not sure what Redeye nerf you’re talking about because he has barely got nerfed unless you count his weapons.
[/quote] No you didn’t; just like most of your replies, you overlooked them or possibly are unaware of them. It’s up to you to find out the details how Redeye’s Smoke and IR goggles have been nerfed. I don’t use Redeye unless he’s on a mission requirement, or unless I feel like using Dreiss or the Grandeur SR.
[quote=“x3onn;c-227635”]What name do you go by ingame? I’ve never seen you in DBN pugs or cups if you use the same name as you have here.[/quote]I don’t frequent DBN PUGs anymore as of late. And I don’t keep a STEAM ID for long. I play mostly on AU, ASIA, US West and if I’m crazy, EU. Yes… over 300ms ping. I don’t expect to score that well, but hey, only the brave dare.http://i.imgur.com/8DVHF7b.jpg
[quote=“x3onn;c-227635”] If your argument is that Thunder is not overpowered when you can counter him with another Thunder, that is really stupid.[/quote]I never said anything like that. What I said is that teams can leverage the power E Q U A L L Y. And you do know what equally means… right? Again, should I explain F U R T H E R ?
[quote=“x3onn;c-227635”]Where am I getting this from? I have tons of experience
[/quote] That’s cool! HERE’s a footage of ranked match where VICe thew the FB too late for the intended effect and caught a friendly Kira instead… Add 8 seconds of experience to your TONs of experience. You’ll get better.
[quote=“x3onn;c-227606”]
I just find it hilarious that you say you would counter something with Nader’s Martydom, when you have to die before you can use it.[/quote] You do understand that Nader has a primary, secondary and ability weapon… do you? And the fuse time of the Martyrdom then was so short, it almost always gets Phantom in the blast before his cloak provided him with extra armour. No you didn’t realise that part. You obviously are telling something else other than playing in open beta and Katana Phantom only.
[quote=“x3onn;c-227584”]I’m aware there are heavier mercs and light mercs in the game, but I’ve never heard there is such thing as “an anti tank” in this game.
I don’t understand what’s the point of your clip? Please enlighten me.[/quote]
Didn’t you just see how I leveraged movement speed and distance between Skyhammer and Fragger? What sort of explanation do you need?
Thunder/Fragger has a large hit box and they don’t have the movement speed of lighter mercs. If you’re telling me you didn’t realise haven’t realised these things yet, then no matter how much experience or credentials you claim in-game (or irl), it is worth nothing compared to 2 ounces of C O M M O N S E N S E.
x3onn
(x3onn)
#27
Yes you should explain F U R T H E R.
[quote=“K1X455;c-227667”][quote=“x3onn;c-227635”]Where am I getting this from? I have tons of experience
[/quote] That’s cool! HERE’s a footage of ranked match where VICe thew the FB too late for the intended effect and caught a friendly Kira instead… Add 8 seconds of experience to your TONs of experience. You’ll get better.[/quote]
All I see in the video is Thunder stunning a friendly Kira. She does get the animation that she would be blinded, but the blind simply does not affect friendly players right now. Just go and test it yourself and stop making a fool out of yourself.
[quote=“K1X455;c-227667”][quote=“x3onn;c-227606”]
I just find it hilarious that you say you would counter something with Nader’s Martydom, when you have to die before you can use it.[/quote] You do understand that Nader has a primary, secondary and ability weapon… do you? And the fuse time of the Martyrdom then was so short, it almost always gets Phantom in the blast before his cloak provided him with extra armour. No you didn’t realise that part. You obviously are telling something else other than playing in open beta and Katana Phantom only.[/quote]
I don’t even know where to begin here… Nothing you say makes any sense to me. Just leave this here.
[quote=“K1X455;c-227667”][quote=“x3onn;c-227584”]I’m aware there are heavier mercs and light mercs in the game, but I’ve never heard there is such thing as “an anti tank” in this game.
I don’t understand what’s the point of your clip? Please enlighten me.[/quote]
Didn’t you just see how I leveraged movement speed and distance between Skyhammer and Fragger? What sort of explanation do you need?
Thunder/Fragger has a large hit box and they don’t have the movement speed of lighter mercs. If you’re telling me you didn’t realise haven’t realised these things yet, then no matter how much experience or credentials you claim in-game (or irl), it is worth nothing compared to 2 ounces of C O M M O N S E N S E.
[/quote]
What 
So a fast merc can counter a heavy merc because they move faster? Are you gona jump around the Thunder and perform a ritual to kill him?
Melinder
(Melinder)
#28
- No coordinated, or even non-braindead team would walk around stuck together like glue, especially not the two squishy, often most valuable teammates (medics).
- Martydom has always been one of the most useless abilities against any above retarded player. You down, you run, you take no damage.
His hitbox is big, but it’s also poorly designed. For instance, half of his backpack isn’t even a hitbox from the side, and when firing from behind, his head is hidden by the backpack, as it is taller than his head. Instinctively, players will fire towards the top of the player model, only to have the shots fly through the backpack.
I know who i’d want on my team…
[quote=“K1X455;c-227587”]Here’s a small clip where I leveraged distance against a tank and a support:
https://plays.tv/s/LGJo1dwj0OPx[/quote]
You were better off saying “Here’s a small clip where I missed a bunch of shots, hit a few body shots (my aim is rusty hehe XD), but still managed to kill a few players because they were too incompetent to fire a shot.”
You are actually using a clip of you almost failing to kill pub idiots as a basis for your argument.
Wow, this clip very clearly shows that the Kira was indeed FLASHED! LOOK AT THAT GREY SCREEN!
You’re attacking @x3onn as if he’s mistaken, but in fact all you did is contradict yourself. Previously you mentioned that Martyrdom was the counter to Phantom back then - so how is the fact that Nader has access to other weapons at all relevant?
It took you almost an entire BR-16 clip to land each kill, and this was with assistance from your teammates. I can tell you now, if I or any other decent player were in that situation, you’d be dead 11 out of 10 times.
K1X455
(K1X455)
#30
[quote=“x3onn;c-227691”]
Yes you should explain F U R T H E R.[/quote]On the assumption that on a ranked match, two opposing teams are nearly equally matched with both teams having 1 player who use Thunder, they should have the equal opportunity to leverage the power of the merc. It is however, a far fetched idea and the better cohesive and more coordinated team nearly always wins or occasionally a matched is drawn. I cannot explain beyond this point. So I leave it to your level of comprehension to understand.
[quote=“x3onn;c-227635”]
All I see in the video is Thunder stunning a friendly Kira. She does get the animation that she would be blinded, but the blind simply does not affect friendly players right now. Just go and test it yourself and stop making a fool out of yourself. [/quote] I’m not the fool here. You get my point why in most DBN matches then, Thunder get’s banned. That’s what I was claiming all along. I take that you took note of the date and time the match I presented was on? And I take that you’re making your argument based on current patch as @averagerussian has posted? Obvious isn’t it? I also take that you understand that SD has applied a patch since my clip was recorded.
[quote=“x3onn;c-227606”]I just find it hilarious that you say you would counter something with Nader’s Martydom, when you have to die before you can use it…
I don’t even know where to begin here… Nothing you say makes any sense to me. Just leave this here.[/quote]I don’t know either why a player then would go around hunting an enemy just to use Martyrdom; knowing that Nader has a primary, secondary and a grenade launcher. Aloha Snakbar much? How can you think like this?
Here’s my answer to you:http://i.imgur.com/dR9IPSm.png
Now tell me where I got it from. I know it’s not canon, but hey, with the speed at which the game is going, it makes sense doesn’t it? It probably won’t cause you’ve asked explanations on how teams can leverage playing Thunder equally.
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”]
- No coordinated, or even non-braindead team would walk around stuck together like glue, especially not the two squishy, often most valuable teammates (medics).
[/quote] Of course not… but then paths can cross from time to time (eg. Aura reviving Sparks or Proxy) and there are obvious choke points in the map being played. You do understand that, do you?
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”]
2. Martydom has always been one of the most useless abilities against any above retarded player. You down, you run, you take no damage.[/quote]No longer of course. And you understand it got nerfed and the consequence is that it’s utility is significantly decreased in game? Adding humour to it’s ineffectiveness in ranked, is that it can friendly fire a team Phoenix, Sawbonez or Aura attempting to revive the fallen Nader.
Note to @SplashDamage: it made sense to eliminate team flash from Thunder; why won’t it make sense not to kill a friendly from Martyrdom?
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”]His hitbox is big, but it’s also poorly designed. For instance, half of his backpack isn’t even a hitbox from the side, and when firing from behind, his head is hidden by the backpack, as it is taller than his head. Instinctively, players will fire towards the top of the player model, only to have the shots fly through the backpack.
[/quote]Oh so it’s a poorly designed hitbox now…and instinctive head shooters who shoot the head over the backpack fail to land a hit, and if from behind it won’t get hit confirmations of the hit on the head because their shots are going above the geometry of the backpack and not landing on the head. What I can’t understand is, what level of intelligence is required to comprehend that if the shots aren’t registering a hit, why wouldn’t a player not adjust their aim to get a hit at the full back instead which is a larger target to hit rather than the more rewarding headshot? It’s like that Russian joke of shooting a shotgun at 10 meters and still failing to hit the broadside of the barn. Short on ammo? Pressed for time? Come on, explain to me the shot economics of high risk to reward. The more obvious example to that is if Thunder’s head is obstructed, wouldn’t a Vassili, Aimee or Redeye player shoot instinctively on what is exposed to damage and possibly make a kill? Or maybe you have some sort of glorious method of making head shots so easy.
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”]You were better off saying “Here’s a small clip where I missed a bunch of shots, hit a few body shots (my aim is rusty hehe XD), but still managed to kill a few players because they were too incompetent to fire a shot.”
You are actually using a clip of you almost failing to kill pub idiots as a basis for your argument.[/quote]Oh, is that how it looked like to you? What’s your point here? Can’t you comprehend that in the high speed of the game and on the open grounds at which I was in, I don’t have the liberty of making perfectly aimed shots and with the number of potential targets that can shoot back at me; I’d rather fire on the go, and leverage my movement speed and make multiple shots with guaranteed damage, and use Kira’s mobility, rather than take time in landing more rewarding headshots but risk getting downed because of her lower health pool. Can’t you comprehend that in that public game I was in, I cannot rely on a player to support me where I intended to defend and had to run back and forth to protect an objective area that could decide whether we win the match or not. In that clip, I’m just illustrating how a play can be leveraged against a type of merc. Besides, why are you berating me on this? Trying to sound good?
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”]
Wow, this clip very clearly shows that the Kira was indeed FLASHED! LOOK AT THAT GREY SCREEN![/quote]So you’re telling me that I’m attacking x3onn and yet you’re being sarcastic at the proof I just shown? Having proved that before the recent patch, All you can come up with is be sarcastic of my clipping? What a hypocrite you are. Clearly, you’re just nit picking on me because I don’t share the same ideas about Thunder the way the most players do. Earlier, I would have let it go, but calling me retarded because I don’t share your ideas or think in the same manner as most of the players and see things from a different perspective is personal attack on me. Just look at the tone of your post. Had I not known you, I would have flagged your post earlier.
You’re attacking @x3onn as if he’s mistaken, but in fact all you did is contradict yourself. Previously you mentioned that Martyrdom was the counter to Phantom back then - so how is the fact that Nader has access to other weapons at all relevant?[/quote] WOW, I can’t believe you’re asking me how Nader’s access to other weapons relevant to taking out Phantom.
First of all, I’m not attacking x3onn. Second, I’m exhausted at trying to substantiate that Nader’s C O N T E X T U A L ability can be used against Phantom BACK THEN. Third, a more sensible player who plays Nader would use the primary, secondary and grenade launcher when available, and if a Phantom by chance makes a melee kill, it was nearly almost guaranteed that her Martyrdom will take out the enemy Phantom. If you think that what I’m trying to get across is for a player to use Nader and should run in the direction of the enemy so she can use her contextual skill without using her primary, secondary or grenade launchers, then you obviously have more serious issues and I am not qualified to address.
K1X455
(K1X455)
#31
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”]It took you almost an entire BR-16 clip to land each kill, and this was with assistance from your teammates.[/quote] So what? You cowadooty much? Besides, Dirty Bomb is a team vs team; a kill is a kill and I couldn’t care less of the quality of kill at that point, or how much ammunition I spend; I was playing as Kira and she can supply her own ammo. If a Vassili player damages another merc and some other team mate makes the kill, it doesn’t mean that Vassili won’t take any credit at all. And it doesn’t matter to me how I get the kill, or who get’s the kill and at that game (or any other DB game), as it took an entire team’s effort to win and any almost any other DB game I play is a team effort. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? Maybe not. Idk why i have to explain this.
[quote=“Cam2g;c-227692”] I can tell you now, if I or any other decent player were in that situation, you’d be dead 11 out of 10 times.[/quote]How condescending… try harder at intimidating me? LOL… 11 out 10 times… I must be playing Phoenix.
doxjq
(doxjq)
#32
That’s literally almost never the reason people ban him.
He’s banned because his grenade is seriously overpowered at the moment, and that’s all there really is to it.
boerhae
(boerhae)
#33
Why did this thread get derailed like the blocker carriage?
I remember the fine tuning updates. It’d be nice if they were back, maybe trimonthly instead of monthly? It could address the things that aren’t huge (like Dockyard) and instead focus on the other stuff, like balance tweaks. Maybe there could be a new trinket every fine-tuning update, too, since that’s really half of the game’s customization at this point (with the other half being cards)
Also, my quick opinion on Thunder, since that got brought up so much. I think he’s a good merc in general, but he really doesn’t need the Stark as a weapon choice. It’s just… too good, if you know what you’re doing.
AlphaUT
(AlphaUT)
#34
I’m not the fool here. You get my point why in most DBN matches then, Thunder get’s banned. That’s what I was claiming all along. I take that you took note of the date and time the match I presented was on? And I take that you’re making your argument based on current patch as @averagerussian has posted? Obvious isn’t it? I also take that you understand that SD has applied a patch since my clip was recorded.
I might misunderstand, but I am pretty sure whatever the augmen or opinion is, it should base on current patch. By using outdated information is just fool.
DNineD
(DNineD)
#36
[quote=“doxjq;c-227708”]He’s banned because his grenade is seriously overpowered at the moment, and that’s all there really is to it.
[/quote]
Is he still being banned in tournaments after the patch?
averagerussian
(averagerussian)
#37
[quote=“DNineD;c-227721”][quote=“doxjq;c-227708”]He’s banned because his grenade is seriously overpowered at the moment, and that’s all there really is to it.
[/quote]
Is he still being banned in tournaments after the patch?
[/quote]
yes
doxjq
(doxjq)
#38
[quote=“DNineD;c-227721”][quote=“doxjq;c-227708”]He’s banned because his grenade is seriously overpowered at the moment, and that’s all there really is to it.
[/quote]
Is he still being banned in tournaments after the patch?
[/quote]
The patch changed nothing. He’s still ridiculously OP.
Melinder
(Melinder)
#39
Worth noting that the patch seems to have done nothing, as people are reporting that they are still being flashed for longer than 2.0 seconds.
