Monkey jumping, running, sprinting and aiming....


(Excessive) #1

Ok… I was just reading a “poll” by a member where he seemed to advocate the ability to aim just as well while you monkey jump and sprint around. It was their belief it wouldnt be as “fun” if you couldnt hop around and nail shots. PLEASE…

I believe SPLASH said that when a player sprints, the gun would be pulled to the chest to secure the weapon. And rightfully so. I am SO glad that some degree of realism will be incorporated into the game.

Yes I understand the genre is Sci Fi. No that shouldnt preclude the possibility of having realistic physics and a realistic “feel” to the game. You ever try to take a shot with a rifle or a handgun at a sprint? I have. Doesnt work. And it will take away from the game to incorporate that Super Mario Brothers monkey jumping sprinting crap in a game that holds such promise for team play.

Yes… I want skill and brains to rule. Play smart, work together use cover, and AIM. We play the game to make ourselves count to our teammates. The less like a “kids game” it feels, the better it will feel when you work against tough odds and realistic play and WIN.

I know Im ready! See you out there…


(Lanz) #2

id software has never cared much about that kind of realism, and though I’m not sure I don’t think SD would either. As usual you have two camps of players, the action player and the realism player. And neither of them has anything with age to do but more of what you prefer. Just as your way of saying that realism games is superior to action games is just BS, it’s just what you prefer. Tbh, I think you will be utterly disapointed with ET:QW if you don’t like W:ET.


(Wils) #3

As Lanz says, age has nothing to do with it. The argument for ‘realism’ loses a lot of credibility when you refer to aspects of the other approach as ‘Super Mario Brothers monkey jumping sprinting crap’ or label games that take that approach as for ‘kids’. Ditto the claim that fast player movement somehow hurts teamplay potential - this is as simplistic as the argument that Counter Strike has no teamplay, and is often made by players with limited experience of the games they’re arguing against in the first place.

RtCW (and hence W:ET) occupies the middle ground between ‘action’ and ‘realism’. It has relatively limited strafe jumping compared to Quake 3, but the player speed and jumping could be considered excessive by a Call of Duty player. It has machine guns and rifles rather than rocket launchers and nail guns, but these same weapons are considered more ‘arcadey’ than their equivalents in other games. Accuracy is based on movement, but there’s still a crosshair on the screen… and so on. It ends up a reasonably realistic feeling game with some arcadey elements, which some players find distracting, but which make the game what it is for others.

id and SD certainly care and pay a great deal of attention to the kind of realism you get in the current crop of FPS games. Notably, there are no pure ‘action’ games in the top five most played lists on any of the ranking sites (gamespy’s stats pages, csports.net etc).

Realism is important for immersion. If you’re playing a WWII shooter, it’s important that you can’t just run at the enemy at 50mph, firing headshots from the hip with your carbine. Conversely, if you’re playing a game in which you’re an alien cyborg in yellow armour, fighting in a virtual area comprised of narrow ledges with no railings and mysterious floating platforms, it doesn’t matter much that you can jump a metre into the air and fire rockets at your feet to get to a higher ledge. It fits what is already a fairly fantastic game, and doesn’t break immersion. If you could do the same in the trenches in Normandy, you’d start to wonder what the game’s designers had been smoking.

That said, gameplay is more important than immersion, and there are limits to realism - you have to draw the line somewhere. Far Cry multiplayer has a quirky feature where, if you’re low on stamina because you’ve been sprinting, you can’t jump as high. This is realistic, but it’s not a popular feature even with players who enjoy ‘realism’ games. Counter Strike doesn’t give you one life per round because that’s realistic, it does it because it heightens tension and leads to a more exciting game. In the other camp, imagine how dull Tribes would be if you had to walk to the enemy base to grab the flag.

It’s funny how things change - when CS came out, all the Quake players branded it a ‘kids’ game, with its toy weapons and simple player movement…


(F-techdeath) #4

There is nothing wrong with monkey’s


(fattakin) #5

I tell ya, someone should gather Wils n Bongo’s little essays into a book, the ‘handbook for reason’

Always entertaining and through provoking!


(Excessive) #6

I greatly appreciate the reply Wils. Im not interested in Ghost Recon plodding. I dont want it so realistic it hurts just to play it. Nor would you find me playing a Falcon 3 game… Too much realism. The leaping everywhere and firing with no restrictions and firing cleanly while on a dead run are about the only things that really suspend disbelief for me. I realize there will be alien vehicles with new physics ect… But those two things (bunny hopping around ect) seem very out of place for a game that is so well conceived as to be able to shoot the tire out of a vehicle and have the vehicle react accordingly. I would just like some level of prohibition on the absurd use of this as a tactic.


(Lanz) #7

Just wanted to make it clear that when I said “id software has never cared much about that kind of realism” I was thinking more in line of what you said Wils, that “gameplay is more important than immersion” (damn English). Which I personally think is the Right Thing to do.

I see these two types of games as the following:

Realism: Sneak, sneak, get in position, hide, wait, kill, move on.
Action: Move in 50mph, find enemy, strafe, dodge, fire, good aim very important and hopefully win.

And as Wills said, neither of these stiles defines if the game has any team play potential, I would even go so far as saying that I’ve never played a game that demanded as much team play as RTCW and W:ET, so much as a fact that I knew several good RTCW clans back in the days that actually quit because they felt “burnt out” of the demands of the game.

Of course I’m biased, I love the mix of needing to plan your attack with your team and the action based fights (though I have to admit I liked rtcw’s weapons better).

edit: Just wanted to add that that sounded more “balanced” to me Excessive than your first post and I agree with you completely. Bunny hopping for example is one of those things I have a love-hate relation to, I love the added movement speed but hate the way it kills the immersion.


(Joe999) #8

i rather play a nonrealistic game than a realistic one if it’s more fun. fun is what makes a game long-living. for realism: sneak, sneak, get in position, hide, wait, kill, move on … it’s more like: sneak, sneak, get in position, get killed, wait for next round. no thanks. i wanna play the game and not watch others playing it.

still i wonder how QW will feel if you can’t fire anymore when you sprint. can’t imagine that an adrenalinic axis medic can’t run behind an allied radar part carrier … and not shoot him. but maybe that’s a different game :wink:


(Hakuryu) #9

Walking in Tribes lol. Tribes is my #1 favorite game of all time, but after playing, competing, and modding it for 6 years I just cant play anymore.

I absolutely hate that reduced jump in Far Cry, but the multiplayer wasnt that great to begin with. Its too bad because the single player game and editor were top notch. I had more fun making maps for Far Cry than any other game, and Ive mapped for many of them. I still remember my first map when I used a chain to link a paraglider and a boat with an AI driver to pull me around :slight_smile:

I like how W:ET is. Realistic to a point, and fun afterwards. I think most of these monkey jumping complaints come from Battlefield 2 players that dont understand the aiming is messed up in the game… if you could aim and hit consistenly in BF2 without non-registering hits and mysterious side flying bullets, then the jumping wouldnt be a problem. People jump like mad in ET and it isnt an issue.


(DarkangelUK) #10

You think it takes no skill to jump around… and no skill to jump around AND kill someone at the same time?


(pctimes) #11

Trickjumps (bunny hopping) is the reason I play the game and you have to realise that the jump exploit has created a whole new world of ET gamers. You can find lotz TJ servers out there. Some of those players don’t even go on the battlefield at all. They just TJ. Why? Cause they enjoy getting speed of 200 Mph.

Just a thought but I understand both sides… If there could be a way to enable/disable the exploit in QW I would definitely open a TJ server with better graphics than Q3 engine.


(Lanz) #12

Believe me, I know that pctimes, I’m not a trick jumper but I used to play q3 a lot, and of course rtcw and et. I’ve done my fair share of bunny hopping and I almost can not play other games without trying to strafe jump in them. That said, strafe jump in q3 makes a lot more sense to me than in rtcw and et. I love the freedom of movement and the high movement speed in wolf, but as I said I have this love-hate releation to strafe jumps in them.


(bandit5k) #13

As we both know DA, “Jumping around” takes alot of skill :wink:


(senator) #14

For me, I just love the way ET got the fun/realistic and movement aspects just right (not even mentioning the great team-play here :wink: ).

I am a person that greatly dislikes the overly realistic shooter games, I find them too dull to entertain me for long. The combination of very deadly weapons combined with heavy death penalty (either having to wait till the next round starts or having to walk loooong distances to get back to te action from respawn) usually turns those games into camper games, where people are simply to afraid to die, and are too chickened as to aggressively charge the enemy to achieve the objective. Instead they start to camp or crawl forward at a snail-like pace, so it’s crawling for 2 min without seeing a single enemy or fireing a shot, than bang, a sniper got you from somewhere and you have to start all over again… no thanks, I have more fun sitting in a dentists waiting-room than playing those games :smiley:

Than of course there are the pure sci-fi fantasy shooters (Quake, UT…) where everything goes, I find those a lot more entertaining as the action is a lot more intense (and thats why I at least play these games), but most of those games sadly failed to deliver a really good designed multiplayer, and deathmatch all the time gets boring pretty fast.

Et holds a really good middle-ground here, with more emphasis on the action part, yet with enough realistic/restricting elements to keep the game tactically challenging. Bunny hopping for example won’t get you very far in ET, your aim will just get so bad from all that jumping, that even with an aimbot pointing your crosshair at the enemys head all the time and light weapon lvl 3 most of your shots will miss, simply because of the increased spread.
So the best way to aim while still keeping moving is the long-range crouch+strafe or close range circle-strafing (without jumping :wink: ), which requires some rather good technique to get it right, and provides for some great adrenalin rushes in close quarter combat, usually without getting killed in 0.2 secs :slight_smile:

If ET:QW turns out to be just like ET movement/aiming/action wise, I know I wil just love it :cool:


(Sick Boy) #15

what he said.


(Rhoades) #16

agreed.


(B0rsuk) #17

So, does it mean there’s no stamina in ET:QW ? After all it’s pretty much useless in W:ET, because you can bunnyhop (without stamina) faster than sprint (with stamina) ?

I think the whole “accuracy based on movement” aspect of W:ET is overhyped. Actually it’s much simpler.
you move, you remain alive.
You stand still, you die, because it’s soo easy to aim at stationary target.
You go prone or crouch, you die because it slows you down a lot.

Unless the range is extreme, it’s not worth crouching/lying flat at all.Even you’d do better to hop around, because smaller hitbox for crouching/lying doesn’t compensate for being stationary target (assuming enemy can see you). As Covop/sniper I use crouch because it stabilizes rifle faster and I can instantly jump back when I see panzer or under fire.


(Shanks) #18

Heeeeeeeeeeey! Crouching is useful in close range fights. When you’re against a headshot machine you throw him off…but stomach shooters get a headshot :frowning:


(pctimes) #19

If the exploit is still on ET:QW I’m starting my server…

Here’s a kewl vid we made of what we call TrickJumping/GammaJumping

http://g-force.et-macdaddy.com/tj_tutorial/tj-tutorial-b1.rar

Cheers,


(amazinglarry) #20

I don’t know B0rsuk, I’ve found it’s a lot easier to get a good bunny hopping streak going when I have stamina than I do without. I think it helps quite a bit. For example when runnin down the hill/street in Goldrush at the first axis (second allied) spawn, you can make it down in 3 bounds if you start off with some sprint bar, opposed to without. At least, that’s what it’s like for me.

In any event, I’ve been having a blast playing Call of Duty 2 lately. I’ve played my fill of ET/RtCW though they were absolutely my favorite FPS Multiplayer games of all time. I’m just tired of some of the mods (not to say CoD2 doesn’t have it’s share of PURE CRAP) but after a few years of relatively the same gameplay with wolf/et I’m kind of burned out (and well, waiting for Quake Wars obviously).

I do wish Call of Duty 2 had strafe jumping, though. And I wish all the servers allowed you to prime grenades. Oh… AND I wish all servers gave the thompson 30 rounds. Other than that it’s a fun game that I’ve actually gotten quite used to. I used to be TERRIBLE at CoD because it was such a big change from ET, but now that I’m in more of a Team Deathmatch or Capture the Flag kind of mode, Cod2 really appeals to me. Hmm… I’m kind of rambling here and not making any sense…

Oh yeah one more thing that’s lame about CoD2 is how wild some bullets are sometimes, as I get picked off with a headshot somehow from a guy who shot me in the leg or arm or missed completely (on Killcam) yet the ‘magic bullet’ finds it’s way into my brain.

/incoherent rant