Molotovs actually counters

(Drcipres) #1

I feel like is unfair to have that many counters for the molotovs, when they have a 40 s cooldown, and the smoke with much less seconds, it only has 1 counter, explosions, making the smoke the only counter for stoker, this will force people to play with him.

(yusayu) #2

Hes the only fire support that gets the full power out of his ability without needing direct vision to the holy heavens. Thusly there should be other ways to counter it and as nobody plays Redeye anyways im totally fine with the Molotov having two counters (and im going to buy and play him anyways cause he got fire).

(Drcipres) #3

Me too, but he will be just like an underpowered version of skyhammer for his perks in general and his ability to drop ammo if everyone is spamming nades to the fire, then you will have to eat a 40 s cooldown, and skyhammer´s marker deals 100 and can be very usefull indoors

(Drcipres) #4

Sorry if my english isnt perfect, and i meant to vote for smoke cus of this [quote=“splashyFlipper;99968”][quote=“random;99962”]Hes the only fire support that gets the full power out of his ability without needing direct vision to the holy heavens. Thusly there should be other ways to counter it and as nobody plays Redeye anyways im totally fine with the Molotov having two counters (and im going to buy and play him anyways cause he got fire).[/quote]

Me too, but he will be just like an underpowered version of skyhammer for his perks in general and his ability to drop ammo if everyone is spamming nades to the fire, then you will have to eat a 40 s cooldown, and skyhammer´s marker deals 100 and can be very usefull indoors[/quote]

(Vaasref) #5

In fact smoke should be countered by fire and not the contrary.

Since explosion could be less likely to instagib that would make it even less offensive and more tactical.
And something that makes people waste their explosives on, makes me happy.

But fire should not be extinguish by weak explosions. Making it with hidden regenerative health could be interesting, then you should use multiple explosives of powerful one to clear the fire before it can regain it’s power.

In the other hand making the smoke grow but fade over time and making explosion an even more fire accelerating the process could be interesting.

(VincentRJaeger) #6

Can’t really settle yet as I want to see how he plays out first. As stated in the previous thread, we don’t know how big of an explosion is needed nor do we know how he will do in a normal pub.

I’ll throw my vote in post-update when I have more intel.

(Samniss_Arandeen) #7

I don’t mind smothering the fire with smoke, but using an explosion to put out a fire is counter-intuitive to me.

(Mr-Penguin) #8

I dunno, took me 4 stickies to extinguish a fire. Haven’t tested it with any more powerful explosives.

(Samniss_Arandeen) #9

I dunno, took me 4 stickies to extinguish a fire. Haven’t tested it with any more powerful explosives.[/quote]

I’m thinking more along the lines of “Who the hell would think to use explosives to extinguish fires, don’t explosives cause fires?” Maybe the blast force should relocate the fire away from where the explosive went off, clearing that one area while leaving the rest of the fire burning more strongly.

(Mr-Penguin) #10

I dunno, took me 4 stickies to extinguish a fire. Haven’t tested it with any more powerful explosives.[/quote]

I’m thinking more along the lines of “Who the hell would think to use explosives to extinguish fires, don’t explosives cause fires?” Maybe the blast force should relocate the fire away from where the explosive went off, clearing that one area while leaving the rest of the fire burning more strongly.[/quote]

Huh, found this website.


Apparently the shockwave of the explosion pushes the flames off of the fuel source, so the flames either go out or are slowed down.

(CCP115) #11

I dunno, they probably did this because they knew Stoker was gonna be good. I can’t say for sure, but I don’t think any class would be willing to waste explosives on the flames unless:
-Nader
-Fletcher
-Arty (outside)
-Redeye (noone plays this guy though)

So overall yea, I dunno, seems alright to me.

(B_Montiel) #12

Well considering the big explosive spam fest the game is now (thanks to no FF servers partially), I feel like there’s too many counters to molotovs. Back in closed beta, the only counter it had was the smoke grenade and it was probably not enough on the contrary.
So I’d guess that only the biggest blast explosive should extinguish it. Mines just to name it. Not only it would reduce the always losing rock paper scissors game there is for molotovs, but it’d also provide a secondary reckless utility to mines that are somehow useless against aware players.

Just to explain how explosive can extinguish fire in reality, what happen is that a big explosive source will totally deprive the fire from the oxidizer source (oxygen from air) during a long enough period of time to make it stop. But this require massively powerful explosive in regard of your fire source. If I remember well what they did in Kuweit, they were using 50kg barrels of nitroglycerin to extinguish Oil/Gas wells, which is a MASSIVE amount of explosive.

(Drcipres) #13

[quote=“Vaasref;99992”]In fact smoke should be countered by fire and not the contrary.

Since explosion could be less likely to instagib that would make it even less offensive and more tactical.
And something that makes people waste their explosives on, makes me happy.

But fire should not be extinguish by weak explosions. Making it with hidden regenerative health could be interesting, then you should use multiple explosives of powerful one to clear the fire before it can regain it’s power.

In the other hand making the smoke grow but fade over time and making explosion an even more fire accelerating the process could be interesting.[/quote]

I dont think so, stoker is a pretty strong merc and red eye is a weak merc, with more counters for his smoke anyone will play him when you can be vassili

(Drcipres) #14

I dunno, took me 4 stickies to extinguish a fire. Haven’t tested it with any more powerful explosives.[/quote]

I’m thinking more along the lines of “Who the hell would think to use explosives to extinguish fires, don’t explosives cause fires?” Maybe the blast force should relocate the fire away from where the explosive went off, clearing that one area while leaving the rest of the fire burning more strongly.[/quote]

Huh, found this website.


Apparently the shockwave of the explosion pushes the flames off of the fuel source, so the flames either go out or are slowed down.[/quote]

Maybe instead or removing it by explosions, just move it away to make a path

(Grave_Knight) #15

I’ve been playing primarily as Stoker and well, I don’t see a problem with these counters. By the time I throw it the damage is done and if they have to use their powers just to deal with mine than my power did its job.

(Edzer) #16

I’d just like to see the cooldown lowered a bit.

(GottaBeGreg) #17

Clearly Im no-one because I play Redeye… Don’t count me out quite yet, sure the initial impact is often the most important, but sometimes it really chokes a point, but when Im around as a Redeye it isn’t a problem any longer, not to mention that now Vasili has been nerved I am a lot more viable as Redeye. In this scenario, wherein I count your chokepoint fire with a smoke grenade, not only has the Fire disappeared, but you have also moved off the area yourself, allowing pushing up to the smoke cover, sometimes even through the smoke cover, or perhaps picking off some kills from said cover, so its not a total waste of my lower cooldown time(30 seconds to Stokers 40 seconds) ability.

(Drcipres) #18

I think most of the people dont know how to extenguish it

(Szakalot) #19

Molotov is super strong so seems fine to me

(Grave_Knight) #20

I think most of the people dont know how to extenguish it[/quote]

No, they do.

Actually the only thing I kind of wish it would do is bounce off walls/cielings so it doesn’t clump up when I hit a wall.