Molotov desperately needs a buff!

(ImSploosh) #1

Currently, the molotov is close to useless, in turn making Stoker useless. Stoker was fine before recent-ish updates. Now I’m not sure exactly what update nerfed him as I don’t remember reading about it, but I believe it might have been the MOFO update. Anyways, the molotov currently does not kill on direct hits, even if it’s a direct hit and they stand in the fire for a second. People can walk straight through the fire without dying. Even as an injured Vassili (little more than half health), I was able to walk right through the fire without dying. I’ve tested the molly in multiple games now and it’s obvious how weak it is.

It was not this weak previously. Back in April-Summer, I used it consistently and it was powerful enough at that point (this was after a few nerfs). So if anyone has any idea what update nerfed it, let me know. Also, who else would like to see a buff very soon?

(GatoCommodore) #2

Who else?
like Everybody who play dirty bomb brah

(Wolf_Darkrose) #3

ya needs one. i used to think it was way OP before i used him but lol. stockers damn ammo station is more useful then his molly. thing has weird if not stupid damn reg areas. it needs work.

(K1X455) #4

Xenithos made a poll recently and the community thinks that Stoker’s Molotov got nerfed a tad beyond it’s effective use.

(ImSploosh) #5

Yeah, I voted/commented on the poll. I just wanted to bring this topic back up and hope it stays in the eyes of the devs because Stoker didn’t need a nerf before and is now (almost) completely useless.

The weird thing is, I don’t remember ever seeing any patch notes or anything about Stoker being nerfed.

A buff/reverted change is really needed, and very soon. I just wish this would get addressed quickly because I, along with many others, enjoyed playing Stoker quite a bit. Along with the lack of damage, his cooldown is incredibly long. It should be closer to Fragger/Thunder’s nades and definitely not longer than Kira’s laser or Arty’s strikes!

(K1X455) #6

He still provides ammo and lays down covering fire… for the more able player though so he’s not completely useless, but his area denial capabilities are definitely off par.

(blonk) #7

[quote=“Sploosh;d-35775”]Currently, the molotov is close to useless, in turn making Stoker useless. Stoker was fine before recent-ish updates. Now I’m not sure exactly what update nerfed him as I don’t remember reading about it, but I believe it might have been the MOFO update. Anyways, the molotov currently does not kill on direct hits, even if it’s a direct hit and they stand in the fire for a second. People can walk straight through the fire without dying. Even as an injured Vassili (little more than half health), I was able to walk right through the fire without dying. I’ve tested the molly in multiple games now and it’s obvious how weak it is.

It was not this weak previously. Back in April-Summer, I used it consistently and it was powerful enough at that point (this was after a few nerfs). So if anyone has any idea what update nerfed it, let me know. Also, who else would like to see a buff very soon? [/quote]

I wouldn’t mind if they changed it so that say the fire radius is bigger or something but I don’t want Stokers trying to top Proxys for having the bullshit trigger-reaction ability which he definitely had before the changes. It took next to no skill to fling a molotov at someones general direction in a panic and get a free frag.

(GatoCommodore) #8

[quote=“blonk;c-221156”][quote=“Sploosh;d-35775”]Currently, the molotov is close to useless, in turn making Stoker useless. Stoker was fine before recent-ish updates. Now I’m not sure exactly what update nerfed him as I don’t remember reading about it, but I believe it might have been the MOFO update. Anyways, the molotov currently does not kill on direct hits, even if it’s a direct hit and they stand in the fire for a second. People can walk straight through the fire without dying. Even as an injured Vassili (little more than half health), I was able to walk right through the fire without dying. I’ve tested the molly in multiple games now and it’s obvious how weak it is.

It was not this weak previously. Back in April-Summer, I used it consistently and it was powerful enough at that point (this was after a few nerfs). So if anyone has any idea what update nerfed it, let me know. Also, who else would like to see a buff very soon? [/quote]

I wouldn’t mind if they changed it so that say the fire radius is bigger or something but I don’t want Stokers trying to top Proxys for having the bullshit trigger-reaction ability which he definitely had before the changes. It took next to no skill to fling a molotov at someones general direction in a panic and get a free frag. [/quote]

mostly the free frag came from the direct hit, which was reduced to 35 i think
the thing we need is more damage/sec when stepping and burn after stepping

right now rhino can just long jump once on the mlotov and it barely scratch him

the only advantage throwing molotov right now is killing deployables and camp spot. And that are not even for long

(Eox) #9

It would be terrible if it came back to the point were everybody would use it like a frag grenade that explodes on contact. Remember when Stoker came out ? Everybody did that. The molotov was supposed to be an area denial tool, but everyone was using it just to score a free kill and cheese a duel.

However, looking at the area potential of the molotov, it’s definitely not on point. I saw a lot of people willingly crossing the area of effect like if it was nothing. While I am against the use of the molotov as a direct combat thing, the molotov’s flaming area should definitely be something you do NOT want to cross. I definitely wouldn’t call it useless since, as it is, it’s enough to protect a C4 or a small secondary objective (I was able to secure a push multiple times with a molotov), but it should really be more versatile when it comes about blocking path.

I suggested something in another thread. I’m going to repost it there :

  • Diminish the base flame explosion radius a lot.
  • After the explosion, make the flame radius expand to its maximum radius over 1-0.7s.
  • To compensate for those changes, increase the maximum AoE radius by 10% and increase flame damage per tick from 20 to 30.

Basically, what I am doing here is somewhat making way harder the use of the molotov mid fight. However, I improved the area denial potential of the molotov to counterbalance those changes and put it back in a position where Stoker can find back his own niche. The molotov should also keep its ability to suprise people camping in a closed area, so if you flank and manage to toss a molly at multiple unaware people, you should still be able to rack up some kills. However, it would be out of question to rack up a free kill during duels with a molotov, unless your toss is really on point (direct hit).

If those changes are still not enough, let’s just increase the maximum AoE radius by another 10%. However, it’s out of question to touch the cooldown as it would make fights against multiple Stokers extremely painful to deal against. This is actually the reason why Stoker’s molotov has such a high cooldown in first place.

(SaulWolfden) #10

It was possible even for Aura or Sparks to escape a direct hit pre-nerf. They just had to long jump out of the fire immediately.

(B_Montiel) #11

The nerf were added to reduce the panic molotov throw, which was indeed a very derative use of the original purpose of the ability.

I think they should add a burning damage for up to 5 seconds, to anyone who put the foot in the burning area, on top of the usual damage tick you get when sitting in the zone. 5 or 10 dmg per second. The idea behind is this would clearly disorganize the affected player by forcing them to find a healing source asap.

(GatoCommodore) #12

(Your worst knifemare.) #13

It’s bad when i can walk through the fire easily as Sparks.

[spoiler]Though i like turning hot things hotter…[/spoiler]

(pumpkinmeerkat) #14

(ImSploosh) #15

I’m still confused as to when it was nerfed so harshly? I used it quite a bit over the Summer and never really had a problem. I stopped using Stoker for a while and got into Kira quite a bit. I recently came back to using Stoker in like November and immediately noticed the difference. There was a nerf a while ago, before Summer if I remember correctly, and that fixed the molotov for the most part.

Eox’s suggestion looks like it would help. I would only like the cooldown to be lowered if there’s no buff to it. I should be able to get a direct hit on someone and if they do not immediately escape the flames, they should die. The direct hits should also end up under them or ignite them for a short span, rather than deflecting off and landing randomly (which it seems to do).

If I throw the molly on 2-3 unsuspecting people, and they do not immediately move out of the flames, they should die or at least end up on low health. Right now, the molotov does such little damage that a Skyhammer can stand in it for a second and then walk through the flames only to end up on half health.

(GatoCommodore) #16

[quote=“Sploosh;c-221209”]I’m still confused as to when it was nerfed so harshly? I used it quite a bit over the Summer and never really had a problem. I stopped using Stoker for a while and got into Kira quite a bit. I recently came back to using Stoker in like November and immediately noticed the difference. There was a nerf a while ago, before Summer if I remember correctly, and that fixed the molotov for the most part.

Eox’s suggestion looks like it would help. I would only like the cooldown to be lowered if there’s no buff to it. I should be able to get a direct hit on someone and if they do not immediately escape the flames, they should die. The direct hits should also end up under them or ignite them for a short span, rather than deflecting off and landing randomly (which it seems to do).

If I throw the molly on 2-3 unsuspecting people, and they do not immediately move out of the flames, they should die or at least end up on low health. Right now, the molotov does such little damage that a Skyhammer can stand in it for a second and then walk through the flames only to end up on half health. [/quote]

silent nerf?

(Eox) #17

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-221212”][quote=“Sploosh;c-221209”]I’m still confused as to when it was nerfed so harshly? I used it quite a bit over the Summer and never really had a problem. I stopped using Stoker for a while and got into Kira quite a bit. I recently came back to using Stoker in like November and immediately noticed the difference. There was a nerf a while ago, before Summer if I remember correctly, and that fixed the molotov for the most part.

Eox’s suggestion looks like it would help. I would only like the cooldown to be lowered if there’s no buff to it. I should be able to get a direct hit on someone and if they do not immediately escape the flames, they should die. The direct hits should also end up under them or ignite them for a short span, rather than deflecting off and landing randomly (which it seems to do).

If I throw the molly on 2-3 unsuspecting people, and they do not immediately move out of the flames, they should die or at least end up on low health. Right now, the molotov does such little damage that a Skyhammer can stand in it for a second and then walk through the flames only to end up on half health. [/quote]

silent nerf?[/quote]

Not a silent nerf. All the nerfs done to molotovs can be found in patch notes, I positive about that. However, the molotovs used to have a glitch that negated damage dealt to downed targets, fixed as of today.

(Xyfurion) #18

Simply gonna repost.

First, a little history:

I have been a Stoker main since the day he was released. The molotov, initially, was more or less fine where it was. 50 damage on impact and 40 DPS. It was powerful and a force to be reckoned with. It got to a point where SD thought it was too powerful and brought the initial impact damage at 35 and left the DPS where it was, which was fine by me since by that point, I had a good feel of the molotov and just had to compensate with my gun a little more. Then later they fixed the way the molotov worked so the flames would not “get eaten by the ground,” which was awesome of them.

Sometime later, something really bad happened. The molotov would only gib players that were already downed when the flames engulfed them. So a troublesome fragger that got caught in my flames would die, but won’t be finished, and could just get revived by the medic (and to this day, this has not yet been fixed). I also don’t know if the next bit is just me, but I feel that the Molotov is not perceived as a force to be weary of anymore. As OP mentioned, people tend to just walk through the flames.

My opinion on the changes:

I feel that SD should show more love to Stoker. Stoker’s molotov is definitely not working as intended and this needs to be fixed ASAP. I feel that, despite SD’s efforts to make Stoker more balanced, they have nerfed him slightly too much. And due to the bug that ruined the molotov for a while, Stoker felt a bit lacking in terms of strength. Don’t get me wrong, I love Stoker, but I do not like what SD has done with him. Maybe increase the size of the area of effect and bump the damage a tad bit? Also, fixing the bug would be greatly appreciated.

Now I cannot tell you what to do but here are some suggestions:

  1. Increase initial damage to 40hp (from 35).
  2. Increase the maximum spread by ~10-15%.
  3. Increase the time between max spread and explosion by ~0.5s (This is a nerf).
  4. Decrease the initial spread of the molotov.
  5. Increase the tick of the molotov from 2 ticks per second (40 damage per second) to 3 (60 damage per second) to discourage walking through the flames - OR - Increase the damage per second from 20 to 30. (Yes there is a difference).
(pumpkinmeerkat) #19

Don’t recall any mention in the patch notes of balance changes when the issue with the molotov not gibbing downed players was fixed? Since then it seems less lethal for whatever reason.

(Xenithos) #20

@K1X455 Thanks Brah

Also, when there’s 3-4 molotov balance post issues made in two months… :confused: