Molotov desperately needs a buff!

(ImSploosh) #21

[quote=“Eox;c-221217”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-221212”][quote=“Sploosh;c-221209”]I’m still confused as to when it was nerfed so harshly? I used it quite a bit over the Summer and never really had a problem. I stopped using Stoker for a while and got into Kira quite a bit. I recently came back to using Stoker in like November and immediately noticed the difference. There was a nerf a while ago, before Summer if I remember correctly, and that fixed the molotov for the most part.

Eox’s suggestion looks like it would help. I would only like the cooldown to be lowered if there’s no buff to it. I should be able to get a direct hit on someone and if they do not immediately escape the flames, they should die. The direct hits should also end up under them or ignite them for a short span, rather than deflecting off and landing randomly (which it seems to do).

If I throw the molly on 2-3 unsuspecting people, and they do not immediately move out of the flames, they should die or at least end up on low health. Right now, the molotov does such little damage that a Skyhammer can stand in it for a second and then walk through the flames only to end up on half health. [/quote]

silent nerf?[/quote]

Not a silent nerf. All the nerfs done to molotovs can be found in patch notes, I positive about that. However, the molotovs used to have a glitch that negated damage dealt to downed targets, fixed as of today.[/quote]

It appears to be a silent nerf because before the issue with downed players not being gibbed, the molly was fine, but after, it became much weaker for whatever reason. This could have been an accident or a wonky fix of some sort.

I looked through the patch notes and wasn’t able to find any mention of the nerf other than the nerfs from a long time ago. I looked from the first Summer Squash to the MOFO update. I could be missing it… If the molotov was working how it was before the gibbing issue, I would be completely fine with it.

@K1X455 Thanks Brah

Also, when there’s 3-4 molotov balance post issues made in two months… :/[/quote]

SD should take note of it! I’d like to keep this in the light!

(K1X455) #22

So basically, what was wrong with the original Molotov of Stoker?

Was it the fact like it was inescapable and was being used to cheese a way with a 1v1?

(GatoCommodore) #23

[quote=“K1X455;c-221287”]So basically, what was wrong with the original Molotov of Stoker?

Was it the fact like it was inescapable and was being used to cheese a way with a 1v1?[/quote]

its kind of not damaging enough to be used as a area denial

(K1X455) #24

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-221292”]
its kind of not damaging enough to be used as a area denial[/quote]

If that was the case, why did they nerf it? if it wasn’t strong enough, Shouldn’t they should have buffed it instead

(GatoCommodore) #25

[quote=“K1X455;c-221294”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-221292”]
its kind of not damaging enough to be used as a area denial[/quote]

If that was the case, why did they nerf it? if it wasn’t strong enough, Shouldn’t they should have buffed it instead

[/quote]

the molotov was nerfed because the direct hit damage was too high, people are annoyed because its used for ez kill while dueling

but its just not up to the task on area denial right now

(Xenithos) #26

ALL NERFS AND BALANCE CHANGES TO THE MOLOTOV have been recorded. [spoiler]The “hidden” nerfs are simply not realizing the fact that the damage it does isn’t enough after it’s extinguishability issues were corrected.[/spoiler]

The original Molotov as Eox has said MULITIPLE times and Xyfurion has stated had issues with it’s use. It was always designed as an area denial tool. In the merc role-call video, and in the bio, AND in the developer notes. It was shown that it’s primary purpose was an indoor usable area denial tool.

HOWEVER, upon it’s first release, most stokers were using it to cheese 1v1 fights. Intentionally saving a molotov to Do the good ol’ One Two to mercs.
Step1: Throw Molly at head
Step2: Burst once.

Even the best of players were instantly shredded to this tactic. EVEN FRAGGERS. [spoiler]This was mainly because the fire spread really quickly, and burst rifles at the time had very good accuracy and speed in-between bullets. Thus making it easier for people to pull off intense 120+hp bursts. 80 from the molly and 54 from the burst… Most people’s reaction was also often to get out of the fire, so shooting again was easy, or they’d suffer another 40 damage from the fire on the floor. Now that damage is 35, and it doesn’t seem to happen as often.[/spoiler]

Since then, the molotov has been changed/fixed (Since it was originally supposed to be extinguishable anyway) multiple times, and in these changes, not only is it not effective as the burst kill the MVP ability, but it’s also not an effective Area denial tool either. ESPECIALLY since Naders and redeyes and fletchers and proxies and basically anything explosive can remove the molotov in patches.

The main changes that should be given to the molotov is a higher damage to people standing or moving through the fire after a certain period of time, to not allow the initial surprise “cheese” kills. Possibly damage higher than 30 damage every half second. (60+dps) So if you move through the fire as skyhammer you’re dead. The other issue it has, is that long jumping in this game allows you to clear almost the entire fire. So it should either be increased in size, or allow consistent damage to anyone touching the fire even once, OR finally a possible upward flame increase in damage to prevent EASY jumping over it. I think that if someone is a pro wall jumper they should be able to skim over it. However, simply long jumping through it is dumb.
Also, remove the intial molotov flame hit bonus, or give him slight dps over time, not insane.

SD could also consider making the time that players stand in the molotov cause it to do exponentially increasing damage from a small value to a VERY high value.

(Xenithos) #27

Screw it, I have a video I can post about this, Bringing it out now with minimal editing.

(Xenithos) #28
(GatoCommodore) #29

so what we need is a more immidiate damage?
like after you throw instead of making the fire slowly spread SD should make the fire deploy faster?

(Xenithos) #30

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-221324”]so what we need is a more immidiate damage?
like after you throw instead of making the fire slowly spread SD should make the fire deploy faster?

[/quote]

No… what needs to happen is a possibly wider radius, with a SLOWER spread. After that spread is finished, the molotov starts to do increased damage. Anyone that steps into that molotov will truly feel pain.

(Eox) #31

[quote=“Xenithos;c-221318”]ALL NERFS AND BALANCE CHANGES TO THE MOLOTOV have been recorded. [spoiler]The “hidden” nerfs are simply not realizing the fact that the damage it does isn’t enough after it’s extinguishability issues were corrected.[/spoiler]

The original Molotov as Eox has said MULITIPLE times and Xyfurion has stated had issues with it’s use. It was always designed as an area denial tool. In the merc role-call video, and in the bio, AND in the developer notes. It was shown that it’s primary purpose was an indoor usable area denial tool.

HOWEVER, upon it’s first release, most stokers were using it to cheese 1v1 fights. Intentionally saving a molotov to Do the good ol’ One Two to mercs.
Step1: Throw Molly at head
Step2: Burst once.

Even the best of players were instantly shredded to this tactic. EVEN FRAGGERS. [spoiler]This was mainly because the fire spread really quickly, and burst rifles at the time had very good accuracy and speed in-between bullets. Thus making it easier for people to pull off intense 120+hp bursts. 80 from the molly and 54 from the burst… Most people’s reaction was also often to get out of the fire, so shooting again was easy, or they’d suffer another 40 damage from the fire on the floor. Now that damage is 35, and it doesn’t seem to happen as often.[/spoiler]

Since then, the molotov has been changed/fixed (Since it was originally supposed to be extinguishable anyway) multiple times, and in these changes, not only is it not effective as the burst kill the MVP ability, but it’s also not an effective Area denial tool either. ESPECIALLY since Naders and redeyes and fletchers and proxies and basically anything explosive can remove the molotov in patches.

The main changes that should be given to the molotov is a higher damage to people standing or moving through the fire after a certain period of time, to not allow the initial surprise “cheese” kills. Possibly damage higher than 30 damage every half second. (60+dps) So if you move through the fire as skyhammer you’re dead. The other issue it has, is that long jumping in this game allows you to clear almost the entire fire. So it should either be increased in size, or allow consistent damage to anyone touching the fire even once, OR finally a possible upward flame increase in damage to prevent EASY jumping over it. I think that if someone is a pro wall jumper they should be able to skim over it. However, simply long jumping through it is dumb.
Also, remove the intial molotov flame hit bonus, or give him slight dps over time, not insane.

SD could also consider making the time that players stand in the molotov cause it to do exponentially increasing damage from a small value to a VERY high value.[/quote]

Sounds like a solid analysis.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #32

I think there are two different conversations going on here…

Since the issue with flames not gibbing downed enemies was fixed it SEEMS like the flames also have a lower DPS or aren’t ticking damage as frequently. Even low HP mercs seem able to hop through flames with little issue at the moment.

Molotov seemed perfectly fine before the gibbing fix. After, it feels weaker. I don’t recall any balance changes being mentioned in the notes associated with that fix. No actual evidence of any change, just feels off IMO.

I totally agree with making it a better area of denial tool rather than a lingering frag nade for softening or finishing enemies in a fire fight.

(ImSploosh) #33

Yeah, I’m not necessarily asking for a buff, but a revert of whatever change, accidental or not, was made to it more recently. Before the gibbing issue, the molotov was perfect. I definitely don’t like the sound of it become like a smoke grenade you just can’t walk through. If that were the case, Stoker would need a second ability or at least multiple molotovs. The molly should still be capable of killing off 2-4 enemies unsuspectingly waiting on a healing station (with perfect placement of course).

The one-on-one panic throw of the molotov was annoying, but after the first few nerfs/changes, the molly was fine. Something’s just not right currently and it could very well be a bug of sorts.