[mod idea] tribes mod... where to start?

(TseTse) #1

The grapevine has it that a dev is intending to sorta push things along with a core physics mod aimed at being a platform for tribes modding.

irc.quakenet.com #blood_eagle
irc.dynamix.com #quakewars

Here’s my suggestion for kicking off a proper tribes mod. Thoughts?

  • Call it something like QW: Blood Eagle
  • Team Arena gametype
  • Spinfuser/original model and another chain/rifle type gun
  • 2 player models (lights)

That’s it. Keep it simple. Get it working. Make it fun. We take that core physics code and make a working playable platform.

Then build on it by PLAYtesting and being open to community modification. Open source philosophy from there, albeit perhaps a core art team might emerge to work together on environmental assets, weapons and a class system.

The idea for starting with Team Arena first is that it’s the fastest and most simple structure to produce. Getting CTF ‘right’ takes time and more effort. Team Arena allows folks to quickly start playtesting assets and gameplay mechanics. From there, you expand to C&H and CTF… without anybody pretending they “own” the mod.

The last thing that needs to happen is have huge fan wars over what’s the “perfect” tribes game. Basically, we play whatever is most fun. If you dont like what’s there, make a friendly alternative (or try to help support one). I have confidence that with a solid working base to start with… something good will happen. What’s essential is that we learn everything there is to know about modding/mapping and make it accessible to other fans.

I personally am delighted at the thought of mapping seriously for a tribes-ish game and i know im not alone. I have an extensive project in maya that i was working on for T:Vengeance that i’d love to pick up with QW.

Oh, and hi… im TseTse :banana:

(Rhoades) #2

First step would be to wait for the game to be released.

(TseTse) #3

Point taken…

But given the art production in level/environmental design… and given the learning curve to get started… it doesnt hurt to have a vision, a plan and perhaps a group of committed modders ready to go. Clear vision/mission and targets never hurt.

My understanding is that you can export core terrain assets in ma obj awe lwo formats, so you could potentially even start carving out environmental ideas in “real” scale. Heck, i have a ton of old T:V WIP stuff in maya and im about to open it with this notion in mind. :slight_smile:

(Nail) #4

Ok I think I’ll field this one (I’m the programmer that added skiing to the Icarus):

  • The code that handles the Icarus physics is in the part of code that should be released in the SDK, so it is totally moddable. I made an effort to make the code pretty clean too, so it shouldn’t take much too effort to change the feel of it to whichever Tribes you like :wink:
  • A CTF gametype should be very easy to mod in - just a different setup for map scripting really, and a few new entity types.
  • Spinfusor mod would be super-duper-easy - could mod one of the existing weapons to behave just like it in under an hour, probably more like 10 minutes if they’re familiar with the way it all works :slight_smile:

I was fully expecting (and hoping!) that someone would do a Tribes mod when I was writing the skiing code. As it currently stands it is a more noob-friendly form of skiing (more T:V-esque), which was done in an effort to make it actually usable for people that aren’t part of the Tribes-hardcore community :wink:

I’m intending to kick-start any Tribes mod’s development after release myself by integrating the player & Icarus physics and reworking the skiing to be more like T1 (my favourite). I’d then release that code to the public so y’all can take it from there - I’m a Tribes fanatic from way back so I’d love to see a decent Tribes mod for the game! Most of the groundwork is all there - easily moddable weapons, character classes, vehicles, support for massive terrains, etc. With the kickstart of the physics then I’m convinced that a dedicated team could whip out a prototype Tribes mod in a pretty short timespan.

Cmon! Spread the word! Make it happen! :slight_smile: “Enemy Territory: Tribal War” ;)[/quote]

(Rhoades) #5

Forgive me if I came off a little blunt when I said that, I did not intend it to sound that way. Basically, what you just said is all you can do at this point. Just figure out your gameplan, try and figure out what formats you’ll be working with, and, as you said maybe work on a little terrain.

(Got Haggis?) #6

I’m pretty sure the first step to creating a tribes-like mod would be to give Got Haggis? the beta. mmmmmk?

(mortis) #7

Come to #etpro on irc.freenode.net…

(SniperSteve) #8

ET:TW FTW

(TseTse) #9

That’s not dynamix. I’m not sure it’s kosher to talk about tribes outside dynamix.

I’m scared :frowning:

But seriously, what community is that?

FYI - irc.dynamix.com = the original tribes server.

We’ll be keeping a #quakewars channel open there which will inevitably be for general chat/info as well as discussion about mapping/modding.

(Hakuryu) #10

Yep. I’ve been working on terrains in Maya for about a month now. I’m finally getting to a point where I can just draw something on paper and know exactly how do it before starting modelling. Getting the sizes right has been harder, but I have little player boxes and primitive buildings to help with scale. I started to make a tutorial on doing it- setup, sizes, sculpt geometry tool, and importing heightmaps.

Also, since you can import the Doom 3 .map format into QW, you can start on brushwork now and import it into QW, albeit without texture.

Alot can be done now. Terrain can be made, tested for size in Doom 3 and played on even (I’ve done this but have had a few lighting problems in Doom 3 so far). Brushwork (buildings, inside) can also be done. The day QW comes out, you could have a half finished map.

(Rhoades) #11

Yep. I’ve been working on terrains in Maya for about a month now. I’m finally getting to a point where I can just draw something on paper and know exactly how do it before starting modelling. Getting the sizes right has been harder, but I have little player boxes and primitive buildings to help with scale. I started to make a tutorial on doing it- setup, sizes, sculpt geometry tool, and importing heightmaps.

Also, since you can import the Doom 3 .map format into QW, you can start on brushwork now and import it into QW, albeit without texture.

Alot can be done now. Terrain can be made, tested for size in Doom 3 and played on even (I’ve done this but have had a few lighting problems in Doom 3 so far). Brushwork (buildings, inside) can also be done. The day QW comes out, you could have a half finished map.[/quote]
keep us updated on the tutorial.

(SCDS_reyalP) #12

In the spirit of the original tribes, the first thing to do might be to make the game dynamics (ahem :)) scriptable like tribes. That way, instead of deciding whether the game should be more like tribes 1, tribes 2, base or shifter or renegades, you instead have a meta-mod that enables any of these. Combine that with a collection of tribes-like assets (which you can start creating today, in generic formats) and whatever gamecode infrastructure you need to support it, and off you go.

I’m not suggesting supporting existing tribes scripting, just a similar level of control. How much work this would obviously won’t be known until ET:QW comes out.

I toyed with the idea of making this sort of meta-mod for ET, and concluded it was not impossible, but more work than I wanted to do. ETPro lua integration is sort of a step in this direction, but the nature of Q3 game code makes it fairly ugly. To do it “right” in et, you would need to refactor a bunch of the hard-coded glop into tidy interfaces. This isn’t impossible or really hard, just a lot of grunt work. From the looks of things, ET:QW is likely to be more flexible (and hopefully a bit more modular), so it may be easier.

(TseTse) #13

Yep. I’ve been working on terrains in Maya for about a month now. I’m finally getting to a point where I can just draw something on paper and know exactly how do it before starting modelling. Getting the sizes right has been harder, but I have little player boxes and primitive buildings to help with scale. I started to make a tutorial on doing it- setup, sizes, sculpt geometry tool, and importing heightmaps.

Also, since you can import the Doom 3 .map format into QW, you can start on brushwork now and import it into QW, albeit without texture.

Alot can be done now. Terrain can be made, tested for size in Doom 3 and played on even (I’ve done this but have had a few lighting problems in Doom 3 so far). Brushwork (buildings, inside) can also be done. The day QW comes out, you could have a half finished map.[/quote]
keep us updated on the tutorial.[/quote]

OMG yes please… even just basic Setting Up in Maya 101 type of thing.

Id really like to know how to get scales going. I have to admit im a n00b with the engine, but i am pretty familiar with modding workflow in general.

I expect to start poking around with finding out how to best mix mesh and bsp on the engine before QW hits. The nice thing is i have a map with the core bases, trees, bunkers already mostly done in Maya from when i was working on T:Vengeance. Being able to scale it out in Maya while i learn the editor would be fantastic!!!

My first map would likely be a VERY simple map with almost nothing besides a terrain, just to learn the workflow and get comfortable setting up ambiance and gameplay. After that, it’s back to my big project :smiley:

(Hansel) #14

That’s not dynamix. I’m not sure it’s kosher to talk about tribes outside dynamix.

I’m scared :frowning:

But seriously, what community is that?

FYI - irc.dynamix.com = the original tribes server.
[/quote]

That’s what US Tribes community used, the whole Euro Tribes community was in Quakenet. :slight_smile:

(carnage) #15

OMG yes please… even just basic Setting Up in Maya 101 type of thing.

Id really like to know how to get scales going. I have to admit im a n00b with the engine, but i am pretty familiar with modding workflow in general.

I expect to start poking around with finding out how to best mix mesh and bsp on the engine before QW hits. The nice thing is i have a map with the core bases, trees, bunkers already mostly done in Maya from when i was working on T:Vengeance. Being able to scale it out in Maya while i learn the editor would be fantastic!!!

My first map would likely be a VERY simple map with almost nothing besides a terrain, just to learn the workflow and get comfortable setting up ambiance and gameplay. After that, it’s back to my big project

in a video paul showed the game with r_showtris 1. this could be a good way to get an idea of the amount of tris in the QW terrain and there sizes. this way you can probably make a terrain with about the same requirments as one in the final game

also from what i undertand the maps are constructed from a tree sub structure of aother maps. so you can say make a map that is one building then place this map inside you terrain map at any position and any ROTATION :clap: so you can still work to the x y grid axis and not be resticted to have all buildings totaly parralel to each other

the one thing i might surgest not doing for now is lighting since the game seems to use a more complex lighting system that weaves in and out of the map tree structure. and it seems textureing might be a little harder now. but i dont see why you cant have most of the assets for a map made before the game is realsed

(kamikazee) #16

At first glance, Doom 3 uses a lot of definition files and scripts. Items can be added easily and tweaked if the “hardcode” looks at those define files.

I do not know how far you want to pull things out of the binary code but the Doom 3 script language could be extended so it could do the same as ETPro LUA can.