[quote=“Watsyurdeal;94376”]Phoneix’s self revive is so easy to counter though, like hella easy.
And yet you want a nerf…get the hell out of here.[/quote]
Don’t go in to thing you don’t understand, have all ready written that when I get the cash that I will test him more out read what people is writing
[quote=“Hardru;94392”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;94376”]Phoneix’s self revive is so easy to counter though, like hella easy.
And yet you want a nerf…get the hell out of here.[/quote]
Don’t go in to thing you don’t understand, have all ready written that when I get the cash that I will test him more out read what people is writing [/quote]
Um, I’m pretty damn sure you’re the one who does not understand. The Self Revive takes exactly 3 seconds to complete, check here, second, to kill a Phoneix while he is down you can knife him, which is instant, or just pelt him with bullets, the average ttk would be between 0.5-1.0 seconds, a THIRD of time. [url=“https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0”]Check here.
Now explain me to again how it’s overpowered? When you the time to kill him 3 times over? You’re the one who doesn’t understand, and your posts absolutely prove that.
@Hardu I think the reason a lot of people aren’t playing Phoenix is because his healing is poor. Self-revive is very dependant on circumstance and doesn’t deserve a nerf.
We’re not defending Phoenix because he is our “main merc”, we’re defending him because it’s simply correct. Phoenix does not need a nerf and even if he did, it certainly would not be what you’re suggesting. Self revive is already very balanced, especially when you take into account that it has a 1 minute cooldown time, 3 second activation, and can be countered simply by knifing him. It’s so easy to counter it’s like stealing money from a corpse.
You also shouldn’t be saying that other people “shouldn’t go into what they don’t understand” especially when you stated yourself that you don’t even have Phoenix.
Okay have made some research on Phoenix. his self revive takes 3.23 sec. to activate. To get him standing, it will take 4.01 sec. But I have also seen that I were somewhat right. Phoenix does not need full health when self reviving. He got his healing pulse when he fast use it, he will get a cooldown on 6 sec. and gain 24 hp, charge it full and you will get a cooldown on 20 or so. But when looking things over again can see somewhat why the dev team chose to give him full health when he self revive. Because when people are shooting at him while the 0.78 sec he use on getting up from the ground could deal him a lot of damage. But I still Believe that for making a game character balanced you need to unbalance him first to see how it will turn out, but I don’t know if the dev team all ready have done that or not.
And that part “Shouldn’t go into what they don’t understand” part. Yeah I have been working all day so were really tired and just had some family problems as well, so sorry about that. Just don’t like kiddis comes in and begins to think they own the place.
Just to get it clear have not said that Phoenix were OP at any given moment. My friend I play with says that he is OP, But I keep reminding him about that he is not OP he is just strong that is two different things.
The main merc thing were because of that people mostly reacted on the Phoenix part. And must didn’t were friendly about it.
Don’t vent on us and don’t call us “kiddis”.
Nope. Just because Phoenix can just heal himself back up to 100% doesn’t mean he’ll get that chance due to the fact that almost EVERYONE will gib a downed Phoenix. It’s not hard to do, and if the killer doesn’t gib, it’s their fault for not doing it.
Don’t vent on us and don’t call us “kiddis”.
Nope. Just because Phoenix can just heal himself back up to 100% doesn’t mean he’ll get that chance due to the fact that almost EVERYONE will gib a downed Phoenix. It’s not hard to do, and if the killer doesn’t gib, it’s their fault for not doing it.
[/quote]
Please read what I’m writing would you. If not don’t comment pleas try to read it again here
“But when looking things over again can see somewhat why the dev team chose to give him full health when he self revive. Because when people are shooting at him while the 0.78 sec he use on getting up from the ground could deal him a lot of damage. But I still Believe that for making a game character balanced you need to unbalance him first to see how it will turn out, but I don’t know if the dev team all ready have done that or not.”
And yeah it is there fault. were playing for a min or so and trolled the hell out of a Phoenix in underground. I began to fell sorry for him.
And I’m a gay that “GIP” or just knife them in last standing mode… know what yeah “gib” is shorter, weirder but shorter and faster to type, I’ll use that for now.
Don’t vent on us and don’t call us “kiddis”.
Nope. Just because Phoenix can just heal himself back up to 100% doesn’t mean he’ll get that chance due to the fact that almost EVERYONE will gib a downed Phoenix. It’s not hard to do, and if the killer doesn’t gib, it’s their fault for not doing it.
[/quote]
Please read what I’m writing would you. If not don’t comment pleas try to read it again here
“But when looking things over again can see somewhat why the dev team chose to give him full health when he self revive. Because when people are shooting at him while the 0.78 sec he use on getting up from the ground could deal him a lot of damage. But I still Believe that for making a game character balanced you need to unbalance him first to see how it will turn out, but I don’t know if the dev team all ready have done that or not.”[/quote]
Working all day again? I read your comment, don’t throw accusations around that I didn’t. I was simply replying to the fact that you thought Phoenix’s ability to heal himself means he should get a nerf to SR, it’s kind of what we do on the forums - we discuss.
The dev team hasn’t unbalanced Phoenix to start with. He is a very balanced merc already with a uniquely situational downed ability and a mediocre Healing ability.
Listen mate. First off at the point right now that I have made more research into Phoenix, I can see some reasons why he could use the full health but that is only in one way.
Yes have worked all day and the night as well. were done here for 3 hours ago.
[quote=“Hardru;94244”]Phantom: Okay I know that Phantom get visible when you shoot at him that is also okay, but the new update made his invisible effect more dark witch makes him easy to see/spot
Phoenix: Remember what I am saying his cooldown is fine. It’s the fact the he is self reviving with full health there is a problem okay.
Proxy: Yeah… maybe I’m just bad at placing the mines.
Rhino: I know he is a tank and yeah maybe I’m just bad at counter him but still he is power full a lot to say there is 4 mercs who is good at taking him out Fletcher, Nader, Fragger and Proxy
Vassili: I say it again VASSILI SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ONE SHOT WHEN BODY SHOOTING THAT WOULD BE TOO OP… Just increase his damage that’s or do so that every time he hits in the head the player die because rhino is the only merc that would not die from a Vassili’s headshot
Redeye: I don’t play Redeye so I don’t know where he is good or not but don’t think changing his weapons would do any thing he is a calls witch use assault sniper rifles so yeah but what do I know right hehe.
And hey I play many of these merc’s and I for the must part knows how to counter them. but else that was all. [/quote]
His invisibility did not get more dark in the new update.
The full health is to reward you being actually to pull off the self revive. the time it takes for you to self revive is enough time for a person running down the escalators to knife-gib you.
Vassili already brings a merc to 10 - 30 hp with a single body shot. Bump up the damage a bit more and he will be able to one-shot when body shooting.
[quote=“terminal;94547”][quote=“Hardru;94244”]Phantom: Okay I know that Phantom get visible when you shoot at him that is also okay, but the new update made his invisible effect more dark witch makes him easy to see/spot
Phoenix: Remember what I am saying his cooldown is fine. It’s the fact the he is self reviving with full health there is a problem okay.
Proxy: Yeah… maybe I’m just bad at placing the mines.
Rhino: I know he is a tank and yeah maybe I’m just bad at counter him but still he is power full a lot to say there is 4 mercs who is good at taking him out Fletcher, Nader, Fragger and Proxy
Vassili: I say it again VASSILI SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ONE SHOT WHEN BODY SHOOTING THAT WOULD BE TOO OP… Just increase his damage that’s or do so that every time he hits in the head the player die because rhino is the only merc that would not die from a Vassili’s headshot
Redeye: I don’t play Redeye so I don’t know where he is good or not but don’t think changing his weapons would do any thing he is a calls witch use assault sniper rifles so yeah but what do I know right hehe.
And hey I play many of these merc’s and I for the must part knows how to counter them. but else that was all. [/quote]
His invisibility did not get more dark in the new update.
The full health is to reward you being actually to pull off the self revive. the time it takes for you to self revive is enough time for a person running down the escalators to knife-gib you.
Vassili already brings a merc to 10 - 30 hp with a single body shot. Bump up the damage a bit more and he will be able to one-shot when body shooting.
[/quote]
Phantom: Maybe not is this update but from when I played before the Update he had a blue effect and were hard to see now even a noob can see him.
Phoenix: whao… you came if okay good reason pretty quick there. And taking that in every fps game out there, every second count well can’t say more about Phoenix… Or can I… No… No I can’t
Vassili: yeah can the the body damage on every single snipe there is for Vassili and you are right. But still they should still change it so a headshot from Vassili is death. (And I know that it is already like that, but not if he tries to headshot a rhino)
So Now we have figured out things about Phoenix. And figured that I’m bad at headshorting with Vassili.
[quote=“Hardru;94555”][quote=“terminal;94547”][quote=“Hardru;94244”]Phantom: Okay I know that Phantom get visible when you shoot at him that is also okay, but the new update made his invisible effect more dark witch makes him easy to see/spot
Phoenix: Remember what I am saying his cooldown is fine. It’s the fact the he is self reviving with full health there is a problem okay.
Proxy: Yeah… maybe I’m just bad at placing the mines.
Rhino: I know he is a tank and yeah maybe I’m just bad at counter him but still he is power full a lot to say there is 4 mercs who is good at taking him out Fletcher, Nader, Fragger and Proxy
Vassili: I say it again VASSILI SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ONE SHOT WHEN BODY SHOOTING THAT WOULD BE TOO OP… Just increase his damage that’s or do so that every time he hits in the head the player die because rhino is the only merc that would not die from a Vassili’s headshot
Redeye: I don’t play Redeye so I don’t know where he is good or not but don’t think changing his weapons would do any thing he is a calls witch use assault sniper rifles so yeah but what do I know right hehe.
And hey I play many of these merc’s and I for the must part knows how to counter them. but else that was all. [/quote]
His invisibility did not get more dark in the new update.
The full health is to reward you being actually to pull off the self revive. the time it takes for you to self revive is enough time for a person running down the escalators to knife-gib you.
Vassili already brings a merc to 10 - 30 hp with a single body shot. Bump up the damage a bit more and he will be able to one-shot when body shooting.
[/quote]
Phantom: Maybe not is this update but from when I played before the Update he had a blue effect and were hard to see now even a noob can see him.
Phoenix: whao… you came if okay good reason pretty quick there. And taking that in every fps game out there, every second count well can’t say more about Phoenix… Or can I… No… No I can’t
Vassili: yeah can the the body damage on every single snipe there is for Vassili and you are right. But still they should still change it so a headshot from Vassili is death. (And I know that it is already like that, but not if he tries to headshot a rhino)
So Now we have figured out things about Phoenix. And figured that I’m bad at headshorting with Vassili.[/quote]
His invisibility got buffed in the last patch that he was in. Try walking or standing still.
Reload Shoot body
[quote=“Hardru;94545”]Listen mate. First off at the point right now that I have made more research into Phoenix, I can see some reasons why he could use the full health but that is only in one way.
Yes have worked all day and the night as well. were done here for 3 hours ago. [/quote]
“Listen mate”. I don’t give two hoots if you’ve done five-centuries worth of research, it will never, ever compare to the actual experience.
You want reasons why SR should provide full HP on use?
Many more out there but I’m lazy.
Let’s give it to you situationally. Imagine Phoenix is moving with his entire team, about to press through a choke point when suddenly they get ambushed and bombarded with explosives and bullets. A couple of survivors remain, distracting the enemy and letting him use his SR. 3 seconds elapses and everyone is downed, however most can be revived, so he gets up at 110HP, reviving every single downed teammate around him, once they’re alive he releases his Healing charge, just narrowly survivng the experience. His team now has around 90HP each, including him.
Moral of the story: By the time Phoenix has revived his teammates, he’s barely alive. Using the Healing Pulse beforehand would mean depriving your newly revived team of an urgently needed heal. Just an example.
This is just really terrible reasoning right here. WHY if a merc is already considered balanced by the majority of the community would you in your own words unbalance him just to see? This would not only alienate Phoenix players for no good reason but also it is just poor game design. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
This is just really terrible reasoning right here. WHY if a merc is already considered balanced by the majority of the community would you in your own words unbalance him just to see? This would not only alienate Phoenix players for no good reason but also it is just poor game design. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.[/quote]
I don’t really care about either side of the argument as long as it works (or works out for the better). The question isn’t so much about ‘balance’ as this game isn’t symmetrically balanced, it’s mostly about things not being obnoxiously overpowered compared to the rest.
Be careful of referencing the ‘Community’. The ‘Community’ is wildly conservative and indeed tends towards the “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”-attitude. By that logic, we’d still be running Windows 3.1. Heck, we wouldn’t have computers because civilisation worked well enough without them.
Experimenting is fine, as long as small-scale playtesting is done to rule out sheer overpoweredness.
EDIT: Also, Phoenix isn’t overpowered right now and is probably one of the least rewarding and boring mercs out there as it is.
If you want a full HP revive on a person when playing a medic you have to charge your paddles or Revivr gun (well, maybe not 383 Sparks players but that’s another topic). If you want to revive yourself, as Phoenix, with full HP it’s going to take ~3 seconds. So the mechanics are in-line with how it works in game for all medics. If you are going to take the chance for a full or near fully HP revive you have to take more time. During this time you can be gibbed. Phoenix has to take more time than most for his self-revive but when he gets up he is at full HP. During that time it takes less than a second for any good player to gib him. This makes his self-revive only good, in an environment saturated with experienced players, when he goes down behind walls (making his positioning pretty important and part of intelligent play).
There is nothing wrong or out of line in regards to typical game mechanics with his self-revive. You can even be gibbed, just like you can on any other merc who was just revived, during the revive animation which will put your revive on CD (making it a risk/reward decision). It’s pretty much just a long paddle charge revive without needing another medic around to do it but no way to make it quicker either to avoid being gibbed out.
[quote=“gg2ez;94561”][quote=“Hardru;94545”]Listen mate. First off at the point right now that I have made more research into Phoenix, I can see some reasons why he could use the full health but that is only in one way.
Yes have worked all day and the night as well. were done here for 3 hours ago. [/quote]
“Listen mate”. I don’t give two hoots if you’ve done five-centuries worth of research, it will never, ever compare to the actual experience.
You want reasons why SR should provide full HP on use?
Many more out there but I’m lazy.
Let’s give it to you situationally. Imagine Phoenix is moving with his entire team, about to press through a choke point when suddenly they get ambushed and bombarded with explosives and bullets. A couple of survivors remain, distracting the enemy and letting him use his SR. 3 seconds elapses and everyone is downed, however most can be revived, so he gets up at 110HP, reviving every single downed teammate around him, once they’re alive he releases his Healing charge, just narrowly survivng the experience. His team now has around 90HP each, including him.
Moral of the story: By the time Phoenix has revived his teammates, he’s barely alive. Using the Healing Pulse beforehand would mean depriving your newly revived team of an urgently needed heal. Just an example. [/quote]
This is just really terrible reasoning right here. WHY if a merc is already considered balanced by the majority of the community would you in your own words unbalance him just to see? This would not only alienate Phoenix players for no good reason but also it is just poor game design. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.[/quote]
[quote=“Hardru;94555”][quote=“terminal;94547”][quote=“Hardru;94244”]Phantom: Okay I know that Phantom get visible when you shoot at him that is also okay, but the new update made his invisible effect more dark witch makes him easy to see/spot
Phoenix: Remember what I am saying his cooldown is fine. It’s the fact the he is self reviving with full health there is a problem okay.
Proxy: Yeah… maybe I’m just bad at placing the mines.
Rhino: I know he is a tank and yeah maybe I’m just bad at counter him but still he is power full a lot to say there is 4 mercs who is good at taking him out Fletcher, Nader, Fragger and Proxy
Vassili: I say it again VASSILI SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ONE SHOT WHEN BODY SHOOTING THAT WOULD BE TOO OP… Just increase his damage that’s or do so that every time he hits in the head the player die because rhino is the only merc that would not die from a Vassili’s headshot
Redeye: I don’t play Redeye so I don’t know where he is good or not but don’t think changing his weapons would do any thing he is a calls witch use assault sniper rifles so yeah but what do I know right hehe.
And hey I play many of these merc’s and I for the must part knows how to counter them. but else that was all. [/quote]
His invisibility did not get more dark in the new update.
The full health is to reward you being actually to pull off the self revive. the time it takes for you to self revive is enough time for a person running down the escalators to knife-gib you.
Vassili already brings a merc to 10 - 30 hp with a single body shot. Bump up the damage a bit more and he will be able to one-shot when body shooting.
[/quote]
Phoenix: whao… you came if okay good reason pretty quick there. And taking that in every fps game out there, every second count well can’t say more about Phoenix… Or can I… No… No I can’t
.[/quote]
I am sorry to say this, I really am, but it is guys like you that can destroy a community. You get on forums and just want to ague all day. If you have read the comment section, (as you can see above,) I got the reason. Terminal is a guy who want to discuss things, not ague. and I’m beginning to be tired of you k*ds in here. And trust me I want to keep a good tone in here but talking with you guys just make me get a headache. So pleas just stop this with have solved the problem here. Not by arguing, but by discuss somethings.
And Cornjester I have made a game before. I know what kind a hard work it is. And when you make something, like a character to a game you need to play around with him first. In game and in the codes. Just to get the right settings for the character.
And the reason why we discuss, instead of arguing all day, is so this game not end out like L.O.L. Where every weak there comes a patch with a buff or a nerf. (Don’t know if it is every weak they send you that buff/nerf patch but it comes often.)
[quote=“Hardru;94817”][quote=“gg2ez;94561”][quote=“Hardru;94545”]Listen mate. First off at the point right now that I have made more research into Phoenix, I can see some reasons why he could use the full health but that is only in one way.
Yes have worked all day and the night as well. were done here for 3 hours ago. [/quote]
“Listen mate”. I don’t give two hoots if you’ve done five-centuries worth of research, it will never, ever compare to the actual experience.
You want reasons why SR should provide full HP on use?
Many more out there but I’m lazy.
Let’s give it to you situationally. Imagine Phoenix is moving with his entire team, about to press through a choke point when suddenly they get ambushed and bombarded with explosives and bullets. A couple of survivors remain, distracting the enemy and letting him use his SR. 3 seconds elapses and everyone is downed, however most can be revived, so he gets up at 110HP, reviving every single downed teammate around him, once they’re alive he releases his Healing charge, just narrowly survivng the experience. His team now has around 90HP each, including him.
Moral of the story: By the time Phoenix has revived his teammates, he’s barely alive. Using the Healing Pulse beforehand would mean depriving your newly revived team of an urgently needed heal. Just an example. [/quote]
This is just really terrible reasoning right here. WHY if a merc is already considered balanced by the majority of the community would you in your own words unbalance him just to see? This would not only alienate Phoenix players for no good reason but also it is just poor game design. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.[/quote]
[quote=“Hardru;94555”][quote=“terminal;94547”][quote=“Hardru;94244”]Phantom: Okay I know that Phantom get visible when you shoot at him that is also okay, but the new update made his invisible effect more dark witch makes him easy to see/spot
Phoenix: Remember what I am saying his cooldown is fine. It’s the fact the he is self reviving with full health there is a problem okay.
Proxy: Yeah… maybe I’m just bad at placing the mines.
Rhino: I know he is a tank and yeah maybe I’m just bad at counter him but still he is power full a lot to say there is 4 mercs who is good at taking him out Fletcher, Nader, Fragger and Proxy
Vassili: I say it again VASSILI SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ONE SHOT WHEN BODY SHOOTING THAT WOULD BE TOO OP… Just increase his damage that’s or do so that every time he hits in the head the player die because rhino is the only merc that would not die from a Vassili’s headshot
Redeye: I don’t play Redeye so I don’t know where he is good or not but don’t think changing his weapons would do any thing he is a calls witch use assault sniper rifles so yeah but what do I know right hehe.
And hey I play many of these merc’s and I for the must part knows how to counter them. but else that was all. [/quote]
His invisibility did not get more dark in the new update.
The full health is to reward you being actually to pull off the self revive. the time it takes for you to self revive is enough time for a person running down the escalators to knife-gib you.
Vassili already brings a merc to 10 - 30 hp with a single body shot. Bump up the damage a bit more and he will be able to one-shot when body shooting.
[/quote]
Phoenix: whao… you came if okay good reason pretty quick there. And taking that in every fps game out there, every second count well can’t say more about Phoenix… Or can I… No… No I can’t
.[/quote]
I am sorry to say this, I really am, but it is guys like you that can destroy a community. You get on forums and just want to ague all day. If you have read the comment section, (as you can see above,) I got the reason. Terminal is a guy who want to discuss things, not ague. and I’m beginning to be tired of you k*ds in here. And trust me I want to keep a good tone in here but talking with you guys just make me get a headache. So pleas just stop this with have solved the problem here. Not by arguing, but by discuss somethings.
[/quote]
Are you kidding me? You posted a discussion - we are discussing, and just because we disagree, we’re destroying a community? Grow a set.
You wanted to talk about your ideas, I’m talking about your ideas. If you don’t want people to disagree with you, don’t come on the internet. Even if you think I may be “destroying a community”, leave @cornJester out of it, (s)he is just defending her opinion and so am I.
@gg2ez. One thing is discussing a thing. but as you can see I have more or less said here is the things that a have seen. I have gotten a good reason why he gets full health when SR. But the fact that you and @cornJester keep bringing the same things up again and again, shows that you guys just want to ague, not discuss.
And I’m bringing @cornJester in because she also show that she want to just ague. And if you ask me, if people in a community just want to arguing, they are destroying the community.
[quote=“Hardru;94823”]@gg2ez. One thing is discussing a thing. but as you can see I have more or less said here is the things that a have seen. I have gotten a good reason why he gets full health when SR. But the fact that you and @cornJester keep bringing the same things up again and again, shows that you guys just want to ague, not discuss.
And I’m bringing @cornJester in because she also show that she want to just ague. And if you ask me, if people in a community just want to arguing, they are destroying the community. [/quote]
I’ll start off this post by saying you do not have to respond to this or continue this dicussion. However as you have directly called me out…
Game balance is something everyone will feel strongly about because it directly affects their enjoyment. I suggest that if you cannot handle heated discussion and criticism of your posts that you do not start off your posting history on forums by asking for nerfs and that you reconsider participating in discussions such as this until you can handle it.
On that note I keep bringing up stuff because it kept being relevant to what you were posting. You posted something I disagreed with, I stated I disagreed with it. I think you will find if you look at the majority of my posts that I post a lot of things beyond “arguing”.
@gg2ez Thank you.