Medics: just freaking impossible to kill.

(Mystiqq) #21

What ive noticed… i wouldnt even call it a medic :slight_smile:

Ok…
I dont know what the heck SD thought about when designing this so called “medic” class.
How can you even call it a medic. I know this game isnt about realism but C’mon!!!
This just ridiculous! from all the classes that ET has medics are the worse. Its the only class that is not what it should be. What flaws does medic have… IMO none! endless healt ,same sized max magazine etc.
At the current stage its more a killing machine than anything else in this game, why?
Now medics dont do team work … rarely do but mostly they run around knowing that they dont need much of a team (cos they are on the quest to be a ultimate fragger! :slight_smile: )… propably more ammo but you can just pick more on the way when kill those 20 guys at once :stuck_out_tongue:
If the max clip or something would be smaller (wouldnt it be realistic! huh? :slight_smile: ) it would be a bit better…
ou yeah… one flaw: medics have ONLY one granade… like that makes a difference :slight_smile:

well i know this post wont make any effect what so ever… but it was fun to write the obvious :slight_smile:

Also off topic. Why in the earth does allied sniper do less damage/cant be reloaded / and has smaller clip than the axis counterpart!

medic kills “one, two…” -> :bump:

cheers
mystiqq :bash:

(Azarael) #22

Players that don’t play with the team can be a problem with any class really. Feel lucky that some medics out there aren’t being such team players because it would make it harder if they were making it impossible to kill the rest of their team in a fight.
As for the allied sniper, a complete list of weapon damages can be found here so you can find out for yourself: www.rtcwonline.com/dummie...ritory.htm

(Coolhand) #23

And in another thread…

You don’t like medics much, do you, Mystiqq? Would I be right in assuming that you come from a non-RtCW background? (SD didn’t design the medic, it’s in vanilla Wolfie).

Believe it or not, I would also argue for a reduction in the combat effectiveness of a medic. Elsewhere, I’ve already suggested removing a medic’s self-regeneration - I can’t see why a medic should have this at all in ET, given that it doesn’t take much for a good medic to “level up” in first aid skills to the point where he has enough medic packs for himself as well as everyone else. Without this self-regeneration, I believe medics would be less likely to go into “rambo mode”.

Curing the mysterious tap-out and disorientation bugs would also reduce the “rambo effect”. As it stands, my ability to play my proper role as a medic in the team is severely hampered.

In the ET test ISTR that medics only started with a single clip, as in RtCW, but in the full release they were given two to begin with. I don’t know why, but I suspect that this was in order to deal with the incessant cries for ammo from medics, which is painful to hear (even for us medics!). I rarely ask for ammo (even when perhaps I should). It’s good practice to have to resort to a pistol occasionally, and a good Field Ops will recognise that this is the time to dish out some ammo to the medic… it does get a bit beyond the pale when all I have left is a knife!

Again, in ET, there are ammo dumps, so ammo is a little easier to come by than it is in RtCW. Hmmm… about ammo dumps. Seems to me that too many people sit there sucking them dry (only to get killed and waste the ammo). Would it make sense to increase the delay between each ammo clip taken from a dump… or would that just increase the length of time players would sit there waiting till they’re “full”? A better idea might be for the remaining ammo to drop from dead bodies rather than disappear into thin air. This alone might make the ammo problem simply go away…

Sorry for wandering all over the place :slight_smile:

(alexwryt) #24

The ammo does drop from the corpses if you have the same weapon. Anyway I don’t think medics fighting abilities should be weakened. All of the other classes have some special skill that helps them in combat(FO have unlimited ammo + airstrikes; soldiers have a heavy weapon of their choice; CO have disquises; engineers can spam grenades non-stop). Medics are stuck with just their SMG. The extra health benefits at most put them on even ground fighting-wise. The only way a medic will really have an unfair advantage is if he camps an area like the path to the footbridge on Fuel Dump, running around the corner and healing after every kill. But anyway if all the medics are wasting time doing this then their team will suffer in the long run because no one is being healed.

(reks) #25

Medics only start out with 1 clip until they reach medic level 1 or LW level 1. Then they get an additional clip to start (to make 2). I thought they also got a second grenade as well, but I could be mistaken.

Since very class can get LW 1, every class can get this extra clip and everybody typically does have more ammo than a med.

Pistols are fairly useless in the face of a fully loaded machine gun. I could see possibly downgrading the medic to the K43/Garand as these weapons seem to be weaker (without scoping and without the grenade launcher).

The reason why medics don’t bother me in this game is because your team has medics too. You don’t need a panzer or a bazooka to take out medics. You need another medic :P.

Even in Wolf the default class to play for the smart player is medic. Now that ammo is less of an issue in ET, this is even more the case.

I don’t understand why people think soldiers should be better than medics at 1 on 1 fighting with light weapons. It thought soldiers were ‘Heavy Weapons Operators’. Witness the fact that a good soldier usually has very low light weapons experience. They should probably take the smg away from the soldier class as it is outside the primary function of the class and only confuses people.

If you want to run around with an smg, be a medic. If you want more starting ammo be an engineer. If you want unlimited ammo, be an LT. A soldier with an SMG just doesn’t fit into the rest of the game’s mechanics.

(Coolhand) #26

I can understand why people might do that: camping out an area that may result in potential patients is currently the only way a medic can guarantee being able to do his job at all. I’ve more or less given up chasing halfway across the map to try and revive someone who taps out on me (involuntarily?) just as I get there :frowning:

(GrumpyDog) #27

I play a medic a lot (I like to because everyone in my “real” family are doctors and nurses), and I can say the lack of ammo is a “big” factor in the balance of the medic. I find most of the time, in between the duties of keeping the team healthy, alive, supplied, and moving, I’m always short of ammo, calling for ammo, or scrounging for it. Medics make lousy commandos.

When they get higher level they get a little better(1 extra clip), but they are not invincible(I think I get whacked just about as much as anyone else, remember I gotta brave enemy fire to go stick your shot up arse with my shiny needle). Also remember by that time everyone else (engys, ops, ect…) are upgraded too. By then high level soldiers and obs guys are running around causing everyone a lot of grief.

Camping is bad in this game? It ain’t quakefragdm™, for crying out loud! Axis and Allied camp all the time to defend the various objectives.

:beer:

(Coolhand) #28

I’ve never thought that camping was particularly bad (I prefer to call it “defending”). I think it’s those who come from non-stop fragfest FPS games that have a problem with the idea of defending.

But, since medics are often the pivots around which the rest of the team revolves, if a medic decides to set up his tents in the wrong place, it can quite easily lose the game (especially if the other players don’t know the map very well). I think I have been (innocently!) guilty of this on more than a few occasions :frowning:

(GrumpyDog) #29

Affirmative, I found that sometime your tea camps around you. Now, I usually try not to set up “shop” just anywhere, but go where help is needed and keep fluid.

Because I rotate around the battlefield I’ve often found myself in “noob sargent” role a lot. Barking orders to get them to protecting/attacking objectives, mine laying, and keeping them focused (I swear, one day I’m gonna bind a “get to the traincar, NOW!” team-say key). Also, because I visit a lot of different places as a medic during a match, I’m also getting better as a spy spotter(I feel is the medics other “job”, they have the time to look for spies).

:beer:

(fat boost) #30

there’s some kind of bug with the tank machine gun, because sometimes your bullets just don’t do any damage to the gunner, plus there’s no hit effect (blood, sounds, etc.), I think maybe the tank just randomlly swallows up bullets.

(Korollary) #31

Medics HAVE been supermen, and apparently that’s the way people like it (I never did).

This is the same way for pub and compeitition for RTCW and ET. I’ve been competing in RTCW for over a year now, and I can play any class at the CAL-Invite level. I made a post about ET medics when the ET test came out, I believe in this forum. For some reason, when I suggested that medics should be more passive, away from the frontline, regulars of RTCW looked at me like I suggested something so unorthodox that I cannot be sane.

In RTCW competition (teams of 6), we usually have 3-4 medics, 2 lieutenants (field ops in ET) and an engineer/panzerfaust. 2 LTs can supply the 3-4meds enough ammo. On offense, you charge with your LTs first so that they can be revived by medics, and if they get gibbed, the team’s loss is not too big. Medics that charge in front are often criticized; if they get gibbed the team loses a lot of vitality. An LT with 40 health is not the ideal guy to carry the objective. You typically make your best shooters play medic so that they stay alive the longest, heal themselves and keep winning one-on-ones. You treat the LTs like cannon fodder, force them to take risks, like run up a hill and die just to throw an airstrike.

Now, a long time ago this bugged me, because the ranked officer “lieutenant” was cannon fodder, and the “medic” was the “Mother Ship” with shields. I didn’t like that fact that there were soldiers with Venom/Flamer/Sten/Thompson available (technically), but we couldn’t use them because it was not feasible (those weapons were handicapped severely). The right thing to do was to stack the team with as many medics as ammo was available.

I was pleased to see that Enemy Territory has other functional classes, such as the mobile MG42 that is better than the venom of RTCW, and the covert ops. I’d like to see these classes be effective in competition. I am a little doubtful about the mortar because the setup time is long, and you don’t see what you are shooting at, it’s sort of limited to spawn-camping.

The last thing I want to see is 6 medics in an ET team of 8. A high level field op can toss enough “mega ammo packs” to feed a herd of medics. I’d rather see that ammo go to mobile MG42s, grenade launchers, mortars, etc.

But I believe now that “damage is done” already (pun intended); i.e. Splash Damage will not be making modifications to gameplay at this stage. I’d be pleasantly surprised to see them fix bugs.

(I play mostly as a medic in RTCW competition)
[u]Korollary
http://teamuprise.com

(reks) #32

I agree that medics are key and the default class in competition play.

I think ET is less vulnerable to the 8v8 8 medic strat because a team will benefit from having at least one of each classes.

Unless they do something to cripple medics, medics will always be the default class.

If they cripple medics no one will play them. Hell, there are very few medics on many pubs as it is now. Of course, that’s a different issue than competition play.

How the medic is tuned and what the goal of the tuning is will have to be very carefully thought out (which means it probably ain’t gonna happen).

(Coolhand) #33

Bum… you telling me I’m wasting my time spamming on about the disorientation and mysterious tap-out bugs? :frowning:

(oops)

(Coolhand) #34

Heh, I like the sound of that :slight_smile: Presumably you’re not so against this now that they’re called “Field Operatives” instead of “Lieutenants?” :smiley:

(amazinglarry) #35

Medics are fine the way they are. I’m a medic. :drink: So shaddup.

I hate this friggen thing man… :banana:

(Coolhand) #36

I’ll make one more point and then I’ll go away - going on hols for three weeks… three whole weeks without Wolfie! :frowning:

If medics are too powerful, there’s an excellent way of limiting their power: nobble the tk/revive :smiley:

Just Say No to all TKs :slight_smile:

(Twist) #37

I happen to think a well Level’d Medic should be hard to kill. The only thing i think is a little unbalanced is the 50% damage reduction aspect of the Adren shot. I mean if you have 3-4 meds on your team, level 4 BS, thats close to 150HP (maybe more). Then 50% dmg reduction on top?? That doesnt sound alittle bit :notworthy: Uber to you Medics out there? Hell would it be so bad if it was lowerd to 30 or 25%?

I will tell you this, the satisfaction of killing one of you Cracked out Medics is far more superior then any other kill.

(grembel) #38

they shuold be hard to kill
but it would be nice if they had a slightly less effective weapon, a garad without nade/scope or a sten… both fine for a single kill, but would stop them going on rampages somewhat
i never really played rtcw but i thought that they would act mroe like a cleric… buff/defuff so to speak

(Riftgarde) #39

Leave it alone, or we’ll end up with all classes too weak to jump down a small hill without dieing, or they will be killable in 2 bullets.

Because as soon as they would nerf the medic, someone would whine about another class. We’d have 50 patches and endless complaining.

(Freedom[]Tickler) #40

Game balance is a tuff nugget, but certainly all servers shld have head shots turned on. Lvl 4 medic still goes down quick w/ head shots, and often its a matter of your aim, and getting the drop on him.

I guess I have no problem w/ the idea of a medic being the uber fighter in this game. Better medics then mega healths spawning all over the battlefeild.

: )