Medic Stats request

[Ashog]

[QUOTE=Smooth;484937]Here’s the top 10 sorted by KPM for Sawbonez (v26021) and Phoenix (v26863)

[/QUOTE]

Now please do us a great favor and post an average FPS trend for the above players.

[spookify]

Now please do us a great favor and post an average FPS trend for the above players.

AIM is AIM and have a good computer helps but you also have to remember most USA players play on EURO laggy servers… So there are a lot of unseen variables. In-Game settings can also be tweaked… I have a beast PC but play on Super low settings…

[Humate]

Have played XT with both a crappy pc and ping, the former is more detrimental to in-game performance.
The latter also matters, but the ping needs to be well above 220.

[INF3RN0]

+still 33% for top players looks like not very good. is it because of lags, netcode and overal low performance? i dunno, maybe, but I think spread is too high.

I don’t think there’s any really uber leet players or anyone with extremely consistent aim in alpha yet, that’s why. I play pretty casually and consider myself just above average- and somehow end up in the stats. If I didn’t think there was so much more room for improvement I might complain 33% is low. Once OBT hits I am sure the stats will ramp up and probably as people put more time into the game as well. Still, even with the stats I notice certain people doing consistently well even if their stats aren’t perfect- and these are just from pubs too. Stats aren’t everything .

[Tast1c]

[QUOTE=krokodealer;484964]no offence, but there is something with your read abilities prbbly.
noone here asked for an imba char.
noone said medics should be more powerfull than fops let alone soldier.
noone asked for more damage

the key issue - spread. sawbonez got nerfed via spread and then same happened with phoenix.
ppl in this thread mostly didnt like it. i personally dont mind low damage - IF - spread is appropriate. that is not the case atm.[/QUOTE]

Well Darkangel already pointed out the reason behind this discussion.

It’s nothing to do with having a single imba char, it’s all to do with him having his fave char being the most powerful If it happened to be engi he liked the best I’m sure this thread would be called “Engi Stats Request”

my concerns:
the key issue: Phoenix and/or Sawbonez as number one merc leads to question: Why we have assault chars when a Phoenix or Sawbonez does the work?

A little bit aim and gun control should be still rewarded, its already really about the spray. Tell me,
I)where is the skill in handling weapons with low recoil
II) where is the reason behind different weapons, when they act the same?
III) Low spread always favours automatic weapons and automatically make them a more reliable option rather than a semi-rifle or other iterations, even with higher dmg.
IV) Low spread results in an average shorter ttk (more accurate -> more hs -> more dmg -> more kills)
V) pre patch, post patch, every patch: The recoil for medic weapons is ridiculously low and easy to handle.

They had to be nerfed because
A) Sawbonez/Phoenix was and is still played as number one merc of choice -> Lots of Data from Sawbonez, little of the rest.
B) simply best merc, deadly accurate, big clip size, high rof, even a noob like me gave one hs after the other lol
C) personally the nonexistent kick of Phoenix weapon doesnt feel good but you got frags easily -> rly unsatisfying when you get the kills; Because you know other mercs are not that easy to handle to achieve the same result!

And yet Phoenix is still a good merc even after this patch. Not outstanding but still reliable and does his job as medic.

Actually I would like to see some buffs for non-popular mercs.

[Kendle]

And yet Phoenix … does his job as medic.

The trouble is, that’s not entirely true.

They nerfed Sawbonez and Phoenix to make them less combat efficient, fine, but they’d already nerfed them previously to make them less capable Medics (so they wouldn’t abuse their healing abilities by using them on themselves). So actually, they’re not that good as Medics either.

If the weapon nerfs to Sawbonez and Phoenix have to remain, then please buff their Medic abilities. Give Saw back the instant heal packs he once (upon a time) had, and please for the love of all you hold Holy give us a proper revive shield. At LEAST 2 seconds invulnerability for a revived player (cancelled upon opening fire maybe), but long enough for the revived player to not die again instantly and the Medic hiding behind him to not just end up a free kill for the enemy.

[shaftz0r]

[QUOTE=Smooth;484937]Here’s the top 10 sorted by KPM for Sawbonez (v26021) and Phoenix (v26863)

[/QUOTE]

who the hell are 3/4 of those people? O_o

[QUOTE=Humate;484969]Have played XT with both a crappy pc and ping, the former is more detrimental to in-game performance.
The latter also matters, but the ping needs to be well above 220.[/QUOTE]

losing fps is a huge issue in this game. i cant consistently expect my bullets to go where i want them to unless im in a hallway or a room

[Tast1c]

@Kendle very valid point.
At least dont cancel heal by bullets. Sometimes it rly doesnt matter if you heal mates in open fire situations or pushes, heal is cancelled immediately.

[Protekt1]

[QUOTE=Kendle;484972]The trouble is, that’s not entirely true.

They nerfed Sawbonez and Phoenix to make them less combat efficient, fine, but they’d already nerfed them previously to make them less capable Medics (so they wouldn’t abuse their healing abilities by using them on themselves). So actually, they’re not that good as Medics either.

If the weapon nerfs to Sawbonez and Phoenix have to remain, then please buff their Medic abilities. Give Saw back the instant heal packs he once (upon a time) had, and please for the love of all you hold Holy give us a proper revive shield. At LEAST 2 seconds invulnerability for a revived player (cancelled upon opening fire maybe), but long enough for the revived player to not die again instantly and the Medic hiding behind him to not just end up a free kill for the enemy.[/QUOTE]

Their heal abilities are fine. I think you are exaggerating their self healing nerfs. Healing without a pack is incredibly slow and medics always have health packs or heal aura to regenerate. They self heal slower than other people healing off packs, but still MUCH faster than off self-regeneration.

If anything, phoenix got a buff cause originally his aura did not heal himself and now it does. Phoenix can self heal and heal everyone around at the fastest rate over every other medic, from what I can tell.

Their weapons still have pretty much no recoil and the lowest max spread. They really only falter vs soldiers, which can be said about every other class as well.

Whether they need a 2 second revive shield (that is a very long period of invulnerability in a FPS) or not… I don’t know. But to play the advocate - Gibbing bodies already feels a bit like a chore, especially if their head and upper body happen to ragdoll away from you. Buffing revive will just make gibbing all that more essential, and it already is incredibly essential due to the amount of medics and self-revive medics that are in the game. Giving 2 second immunity will pretty much guarantee the guy getting away with full hp. I feel like that is a pretty poor way to handle revives which should be a clutch maneuver to try and turn things around, not something that will always break even and have a high chance of working out in your favor since you could use the revived player as a shield.

BTW… isn’t it weird that the medic named aura doesn’t have healing aura. Maybe should change aura’s name to something else.

[Glottis-3D]

@Tast1c oh, please. next time i beg you at least try to read.

i never said reduce recoil. i never said make weapons the same.
and other things you say. you argue only for the sake of arguing.

-ttk doesnt depend ONLY on spread, does it?
-low recoil for medic? ask for more recoil in the topics. this is another way of balancing out a weapon i am all for having a good balance.

[Kendle]

I think you are exaggerating their self healing nerfs.

To be honest, I’m comparing them, to, dare I say it, previous games.

ET invented the rambo Med and XT set about un-inventing it. Fine, I not only have no problem with that but actively welcome it, probably the best thing about this game is that you can jump on server and not pick Medic without needing a damn good reason, but,compared to ET XT’s Med is both less capable as a Medic AND less capable as a soldier.

One or the other, sure, but not both. For me, all Medics in this game suffer from revive being almost always a case of trading a life, and very few people care to do that (and why should they?).

[attack]

[QUOTE=Kendle;484979]To be honest, I’m comparing them, to, dare I say it, previous games.

ET invented the rambo Med and XT set about un-inventing it. Fine, I not only have no problem with that but actively welcome it, probably the best thing about this game is that you can jump on server and not pick Medic without needing a damn good reason, but,compared to ET XT’s Med is both less capable as a Medic AND less capable as a soldier.

One or the other, sure, but not both. For me, all Medics in this game suffer from revive being almost always a case of trading a life, and very few people care to do that (and why should they?).[/QUOTE]

why not try a brink like revive system.
as no reviveshield will come.
the medics thrrow the selfrevive to the persons .
this way they have not to risk their lifes

[INF3RN0]

Revive gun is incoming.

[shaftz0r]

[QUOTE=attack;484985]why not try a brink like revive system.
as no reviveshield will come.
the medics thrrow the selfrevive to the persons .
this way they have not to risk their lifes[/QUOTE]

that was the worst rev system ive ever seen…

[Rex]

[QUOTE=attack;484985]why not try a brink like revive system.
as no reviveshield will come.
the medics thrrow the selfrevive to the persons .
this way they have not to risk their lifes[/QUOTE]

What about NO !?

[Humate]

why not try a brink like revive system.

If they are not willing to mention they developed Brink in their hype video; it seems a bit silly to start using mechanics that were unique to that game.

[Hundopercent]

[QUOTE=Smooth;484937]Here’s the top 10 sorted by KPM for Sawbonez (v26021) and Phoenix (v26863)

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Smooth for taking the time to do this.

So pre nerf Sawbonez and pre (recent nerf) Phoenix the same 5 players (if inferno played Phoenix I would assume 6) are in the top 10. This is why I disagree with using Echo stats for your balancing right now. There aren’t enough players and their isn’t enough data.

Can we try tweaking the weapon stats based on suggestions from the forum and not a dev tool? I can only stomach this game 2 - 4 maps at a time now.

[Anti]

[QUOTE=strychzilla;484991]Thanks Smooth for taking the time to do this.

So pre nerf Sawbonez and pre (recent nerf) Phoenix the same 5 players (if inferno played Phoenix I would assume 6) are in the top 10. This is why I disagree with using Echo stats for your balancing right now. There aren’t enough players and their isn’t enough data.

Can we try tweaking the weapon stats based on suggestions from the forum and not a dev tool? I can only stomach this game 2 - 4 maps at a time now.[/QUOTE]

Tired of saying it but we don’t balance based solely on stats. At the same time we’re never going to blance based entirely on suggestions either.

You asked for the sample to be reduced to the top 10, that 50% of that tiny sample is in both top 10s isn’t the most valuable stat especially when the skills you’re measuring are largely transferable. If you took the top 10% of all players and looked at every class I imagine you’ll still see a high amount of similarity, because the best group of a population is always a small group. That is kind of how normal distributions work.

[INF3RN0]

Just curious what you want to cap the highest attainable stats at for most weapons? I think that around 40% accuracy and 30% headshots will become the peak for most current weapons when players get to that point. It seems pretty reasonable to me, but just wondering if you’re working towards a set goal and how divided you want the player base to be skill wise.

[Anti]

Just curious what you want to cap the highest attainable stats at for most weapons? I think that around 40% accuracy and 30% headshots will become the peak for most current weapons when players get to that point. It seems pretty reasonable to me, but just wondering if you’re working towards a set goal and how divided you want the player base to be skill wise.

We aim to have skill based matchmaking so there is no hard limit to the range of skill we’d be happy to see, we can group players with like skilled opponents to ensure good games.

That said we sort of expect a range like you suggested, roughly 15% to 40% accuracy. We expect this range based on what we’ve seen in similar games in terms of weapon mechanics (the likes of CS, CoD, BF, ETQW etc etc). We don’t expect to see higher values like you might get in Quake, UT or Tribes due to the nature of the weapons.