you ofcourse know, that your regular mid-player in ET gets 45%-50% i am talking about for examplae Humanbeen here from nexon forums(he doesnt have access here). and he is not a TOP player
i dont remember exect ETQW stats, but40% was considered a good, but mediocre result.
Medic Stats request
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#81
spookify
(spookify)
#82
[QUOTE=Anti;484998]Tired of saying it but we don’t balance based solely on stats. At the same time we’re never going to blance based entirely on suggestions either.
You asked for the sample to be reduced to the top 10, that 50% of that tiny sample is in both top 10s isn’t the most valuable stat especially when the skills you’re measuring are largely transferable. If you took the top 10% of all players and looked at every class I imagine you’ll still see a high amount of similarity, because the best group of a population is always a small group. That is kind of how normal distributions work.[/QUOTE]
First off thanks again for everything you are doing on this game and doing for us in these forums. I am going to try not to put words into Strychzilla’s mouth but for me it seems like the feedback we give on weapons and feel does go a little unnoticed from what is being released in the patched.
Please hear me out on this one point. How do I word this… We have giving some great feedback on the forums and went into great detail on how a player feels and in at least 4 Characters we have stated that they feel good in the whatever Patch it was at the time. My point is these 4 players were then Nerfed the very next patch. I would suggest holding off the nerf hammer at least 1 future Patch to come data and to let us compare these players to the newly buffed players. Data is data and that is great but when you are trying to give feedback on a player and against a player it is really hard.
Sawbonez (v26021) VS the New LT Buffs?
Phoenix (v26863) VS Sawbonez (v26021)
Stoker (v26021) or Previous Cant remember VS Phoenix (v26863) and/OR Sawbonez (v26021)
Arty Pre-v26021 VS SKYHammer(v26863)
Now I know this can always be changed back but for testing can we make smaller or slower Nerfs for the time being? When we say this player has a great feel then you are really on to something.
Side Note: Just when a Character gets the ability to get a mutli kill is seems like they are Nerfed. Im even talking about something simple like Backraging here… Its the most exciting play in Esports 
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#83
maybe SD can let several versions of merc be played?
i mean, it is not openbeta. we can compare ingame?
for most discussed merc(sawbonex, phoenix, arty, skyhammer) this could realy help!
spookify
(spookify)
#84
[QUOTE=krokodealer;485017]maybe SD can let several versions of merc be played?
i mean, it is not openbeta. we can compare ingame?
for most discussed merc(sawbonex, phoenix, arty, skyhammer) this could realy help![/QUOTE]
This is a very interesting concept…
Treat it is a character pick and all 3 could be Phoenix but from different patched…
OK there are pro and con’s to this however mostly pro’s if SD upon official release is consistent with the weapon… Because lets be honest most players will pick the strongest most accurate gun Phoenix… But what if other smaller things are tweaked in Future patch… Movement speed, HP, Health Regan, Health ORA, Health Time, Health ORA distance… All things that might make people buy the new Phoenix… As long as there arent any major gun changes then I dont see why this wouldnt work. If SD keeps messing with spread! Then yeah why use a new or old player.
This is an amazing idea the character development is endless. Why be limited to just one Phoenix… Or one SAW… Maybe through the patched either becomes more tanky or a better survivable medic. Maybe in previous patched he was more of a killer with weak medic skills. If you look at this Patch Medics are both Weak and useless hahahhahaha! :-p
attack
(attack)
#86
[QUOTE=krokodealer;485014]you ofcourse know, that your regular mid-player in ET gets 45%-50% i am talking about for examplae Humanbeen here from nexon forums(he doesnt have access here). and he is not a TOP player
i dont remember exect ETQW stats, but40% was considered a good, but mediocre result.[/QUOTE]
50% a mid et player ? i dont think so.
attack
(attack)
#87
[QUOTE=Anti;485010]We aim to have skill based matchmaking so there is no hard limit to the range of skill we’d be happy to see, we can group players with like skilled opponents to ensure good games.
That said we sort of expect a range like you suggested, roughly 15% to 40% accuracy. We expect this range based on what we’ve seen in similar games in terms of weapon mechanics (the likes of CS, CoD, BF, ETQW etc etc). We don’t expect to see higher values like you might get in Quake, UT or Tribes due to the nature of the weapons.[/QUOTE]
the real problem for me is the unpredictable recoil,its too much luck involved.
i know that it helps to get weapons more unique,but it kills rly the learning of the guns.
the heavy recoil is also for lowsens players hard to get rid of,especially unpredictable recoil, the reaction time is alredy lower by the usage of the arm and also it lets you get very fast tired.
im not an ulralowsens player,but there are some and i tried it in the past andeven i with my mid - lowsens have sometimes problems.
highsens players could more easy handle them because of higher dpi and so on.
i play with 400dpi normally,dont know if 400 or 800 currently.
oldschool et Mx518 400 dpi . yawspeed of 
Ruben0s
(Ruben0s)
#88
Well I do think so. I used to be med skilled when I played etpro (long long long time ago). And I could reach acc between 40 and 50 on public.
Ooollld school etpro screenshot( when 2.60 and 2.60b where not even released)
Jaymod was ever more crazy. I used to have an acc between 45+ and 60, but well it’s jaymod 
Anti
(Anti)
#89
[QUOTE=attack;485026]the real problem for me is the unpredictable recoil,its too much luck involved.
i know that it helps to get weapons more unique,but it kills rly the learning of the guns.
the heavy recoil is also for lowsens players hard to get rid of,especially unpredictable recoil, the reaction time is alredy lower by the usage of the arm and also it lets you get very fast tired.
im not an ulralowsens player,but there are some and i tried it in the past andeven i with my mid - lowsens have sometimes problems.
highsens players could more easy handle them because of higher dpi and so on.
i play with 400dpi normally,dont know if 400 or 800 currently.
oldschool et Mx518 400 dpi . yawspeed of :D[/QUOTE]
We’ve got a proposal together for changing how some of the horizontal recoil works that we need to run by the programmers, but essentially if we can get it in horizontal recoil would start very very low and gradually creep within some more restricted bounds. Essentially you’d only start to notice it if you spray for a lot of bullets compared to now.
Not sure if and when we might be able to try that, but it’s another thing we’re looking at. We’re certainly aware of the frustration horizontal shifts can cause.
attack
(attack)
#90
[QUOTE=Ruben0s;485027]Well I do think so. I used to be med skilled when I played etpro (long long long time ago). And I could reach acc between 40 and 50 on public.
Ooollld school etpro screenshot( when 2.60 and 2.60b where not even released)
Jaymod was ever more crazy. I used to have an acc between 45+ and 60, but well it’s jaymod
[/QUOTE]
med/med+ on a public mabye,but i dont think so against the same skill.
but hey i was med- max at my best times :D.so i could be definitly wrong
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#93
[QUOTE=krokodealer;485014]you ofcourse know, that your regular mid-player in ET gets 45%-50% i am talking about for examplae Humanbeen here from nexon forums(he doesnt have access here). and he is not a TOP player
i dont remember exect ETQW stats, but40% was considered a good, but mediocre result.[/QUOTE]
Just because people you “consider” average players get higher accuracy stats doesn’t mean they are actually doing better than everyone else. They could be firing less bullets. They could be dying before they can miss more bullets. There’s too many variables. All that matters is how well you actually do and not what your stats show. Many times the best players don’t have the best stats in everything because they are alive the longest, pre-firing constantly, and just trying to output damage as often as possible.
Then you have to consider this is a different game and almost no one has mastered it to the same level they were in ET or ETQW. Also many people have a hard time playing different games- for example many pro players are only very good at one game. From personal experience I have a decent idea of what is possible and what is player fault based on how much room for personal improvement I see. A lot of people miss-aim more often than spread interferes with aim. No one likes hearing me point that out because they find it insulting to their skill, but to be realistic here… which players are never making mistakes and aiming perfectly? I can only think of a few that might have gotten close and they don’t play anymore. I can only base it off my own experience of constantly making mistakes and comparing how well I do to others. Simply put, I think there’s enough room for people to be a top player but they need to put the time in to get there before complaining that the game won’t let them.
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#96
[QUOTE=Anti;485028]We’ve got a proposal together for changing how some of the horizontal recoil works that we need to run by the programmers, but essentially if we can get it in horizontal recoil would start very very low and gradually creep within some more restricted bounds. Essentially you’d only start to notice it if you spray for a lot of bullets compared to now.
Not sure if and when we might be able to try that, but it’s another thing we’re looking at. We’re certainly aware of the frustration horizontal shifts can cause.[/QUOTE]
Would you try to input some kind of system where significant spread and horizontal recoil increase can be avoided via some kind of practiced weapon control? If spread is unavoidable then quick multi-kills become impossible, but if a player is able to perform some sort of process of slightly reducing their fire rate manually ie tap fire- well it would also need to be enough to be more appealing than hold-fire spraying. It’s just tough to really reduce any chance of random kills from spraying with fast paced movement and significant hit box values. I’d consider the best system allowing controlled fire to attain multi-kills via headshots vs hold-fire spraying. The random x-recoil from extended hold-firing might be an actual decent way to facilitate the advantage of weapon control if the spread reward was there. I just don’t know how you’d get there with the current fixed weapon stats and game pace.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#97
[QUOTE=Anti;485028]We’ve got a proposal together for changing how some of the horizontal recoil works that we need to run by the programmers, but essentially if we can get it in horizontal recoil would start very very low and gradually creep within some more restricted bounds. Essentially you’d only start to notice it if you spray for a lot of bullets compared to now.
Not sure if and when we might be able to try that, but it’s another thing we’re looking at. We’re certainly aware of the frustration horizontal shifts can cause.[/QUOTE]
great news!!
shaftz0r
(shaftz0r)
#98
[QUOTE=Ruben0s;485027]Well I do think so. I used to be med skilled when I played etpro (long long long time ago). And I could reach acc between 40 and 50 on public.
Ooollld school etpro screenshot( when 2.60 and 2.60b where not even released)
Jaymod was ever more crazy. I used to have an acc between 45+ and 60, but well it’s jaymod
[/QUOTE]
i show pub stats with LW4 to prove points too.
even the very top of etpro 2.60 people werent shooting 50% acc on a regular basis, and if they did, it was all backrage and bait.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#99
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;485038]Just because people you “consider” average players get higher accuracy stats doesn’t mean they are actually doing better than everyone else. They could be firing less bullets. They could be dying before they can miss more bullets. There’s too many variables. All that matters is how well you actually do and not what your stats show. Many times the best players don’t have the best stats in everything because they are alive the longest, pre-firing constantly, and just trying to output damage as often as possible.
Then you have to consider this is a different game and almost no one has mastered it to the same level they were in ET or ETQW. Also many people have a hard time playing different games- for example many pro players are only very good at one game. From personal experience I have a decent idea of what is possible and what is player fault based on how much room for personal improvement I see. A lot of people miss-aim more often than spread interferes with aim. No one likes hearing me point that out because they find it insulting to their skill, but to be realistic here… which players are never making mistakes and aiming perfectly? I can only think of a few that might have gotten close and they don’t play anymore. I can only base it off my own experience of constantly making mistakes and comparing how well I do to others. Simply put, I think there’s enough room for people to be a top player but they need to put the time in to get there before complaining that the game won’t let them.[/QUOTE]
i know that. =)
i just feel, that spread is too high at for mid-range non-IS fight.
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#100
[QUOTE=krokodealer;485053]i know that. =)
i just feel, that spread is too high at for mid-range non-IS fight.[/QUOTE]
I agree that spread ‘get’s too high’ when trying to get quick multi-kills. The first 1-2 kills are usually pretty good spread wise. I think that adding some weapon control will be good for making the game more skillful, but it doesn’t really work well yet. I want to be encouraged to have good weapon control and keep good spread because of it, but you simply can’t because hold-fire is just too good atm. Also you will never be able to beat people spraying even if your doing well at controlling your weapon. I almost want to try having most weapons become extremely random to control and increase in spread if you hold-fire and then have just y-axis recoil and keep the original spread when tap firing. The idea of weapon control is will be great at eliminating sprayers, but there needs to be a real advantage to it otherwise we will all continue to hold-fire and complain about spread.
You can also have low spread, low recoil weapons too- but I’d expect them to be weak sauce.