Martyrdom? /Really?/

(GregHouseMD) #61

[quote=“worthyStew;24291”]@GregHouseMD You’re full of it, you can’t control your surroundings as you describe it. And as luck (?) would have it. I main Rhino. :open_mouth:
Today I had another of those games, holding off a section of the map with medic and lord n behold. Nader bum rushes in, instadeath, instaexplosion kills me and medic allah ackbar style. BS mechanic, no defense for it. Bads getting rewarded for being bad.[/quote]

Yeah, no defense at all.

Except, you know. Not standing atop Nader’s corpse.

(Zeepso) #62

I have to say, the argument that the ability is fine because it gibs Nader, or she shouldn’t be rushing in, isn’t valid. In a game based around spawn waves, kamikaze attacks are beneficial since it’s often times quicker to re-spawn then restock, with the added benefit of regrouping with your team. So being gibbed isn’t always a deterrent, and being able to wreck more havoc after you’re down is a big bonus if your goal is to die anyway.

(Ardez1) #63

The moment I see that happen in a high level tournament game I will agree with you.

(Zeepso) #64

If you ever watched any competitive ET, mass suicide before a spawn wave happens pretty much all the time (To be fair, often times it’s just pressing the suicide bind). I have little reason to doubt why this wouldn’t be the case in dirty bomb.

(worthyStew) #65

@Ardez You’ve missed the entire point.
@GregHouseMD Ah I get it, a baddie and a troll. Confirmd.

(GregHouseMD) #66

I haven’t played ET in literally ten years or so, so I have no idea what that looks like in ET. I do know this: Martyrdom’s trigger is so generous that it really doesn’t matter where you are relative to Nader; if you’re quick enough, you can get away. Rhino might be an exception, but he can soak it, so it hardly matters.

I’m currently scoring a lot of kills with Nader, and a lot of Martyrdom kills. I didn’t before the open beta; I actually hardly played her. There’s two reasons, and two reasons only: Either people don’t know about Martyrdom and try to knife-gib me, or they don’t GTFO when I die on top of their healing station.

Of those kills, literally - and I do mean literally - all of them could and would be avoided by better players. I know, because that’s how it used to be before the influx of new players. With a few exceptions, people who just consistently forgot about Martyrdom. I also know this because I myself manage quite easily to get away from it. It’s as simple as this: Nader dies, you turn around, and you leg it. Into bullets if necessary. Better than blowing up.

(Zenity) #67

Martyrdom is area denial, just like her grenades. One of the essential skills when playing Nader is to NOT activate it instantly, because most of the time it is completely wasted against halfway decent opponents and you only rob yourself the chance of being revived. Not to mention how embarrassing it is to be revived just in time for your grenade to blow yourself up again. With friendly fire in competitive play you’d even blow your medic up.

In suicide attacks right before respawn Martyrdom is useful yes (at least it doesn’t hurt), but most of the time also has no effect because it’s much too predictable. The one exception is when you are in the middle of a clustered group of enemies who have no easy escape route, and dealing with that kind of situation is EXACTLY the purpose of Nader.

Rhino in particular has no right to complain about Nader. Rhino is extremely hard to take out for most mercs, to the point that teams can feel completely helpless if they don’t have a means of dealing with him. Nader is one of those means to deal with him. If you don’t want to rely on your teammates to take care of nuisances like Nader for you, then don’t play Rhino. He is NOT supposed to be a one man army anymore than any other merc is.

(B_Montiel) #68

At first, I’ve been very against martyrdom. It recalls too much of bf/cod noob-friendly perks. But further down the way, I feel like it adds variety to gibbing and forces players to think during action that ends to be instinctive after quite some time. For that particular reason, that’s something that needs to be in the game. This breaks the routine. And in some way, this needs to be punishing. Otherwise players won’t consider they’ve done a mistake.

But to be honest, I see too much Nader going instadom even if there’s 2 medics around her. That’s an appalling big fat finger to the rest of the team and generally badly thought action. So, even though this would add more randomness to something already messy in essence, I think adding a cooldown to martyrdom will also force naders to think before exploding themselves.

(Gi.Am) #69

As someone who plays Nader quite extensively and uses martyrdom with some success let me chime in (obiously I will say it’s fine).

Martyrdom doesn’t need a cooldown Nader already has limited access to it. To be specific the only time it is avaible, is in the short span between getting incapicated and getting gibbed/respawned (she can’t just jump into a spawn and press a button to kill everybody you have to kill her first).

Furthermore B.Montiel brings up instadom (love the term btw.). That right there shows that martyrdom isn’t just a skill-less instadeath button, that takes away your hard earned victory. See Martyrdom is all about situational awareness.

A Nader that always instadoms is a bad Nader.

Sure in some situations you have to instadom or the chance that you catch a knife gibb or the enemy gets away is to high.

In other situations instadom means pointlessly throwing away any chance of a revive, the chance to kill someone with martyrdom a second later or if FF is on they might even TK (I’m a fan of FF-on).

Naders have to judge their surrounding even when they are dead. Every other merc can breath easy for a few seconds when they die (except maybe Phoenix). The moment a Nader dies she has to decide instadom or not if not she has to rotate her view into the best position and stay alert judging the distance between herself and aproaching enemies hoping that noone gibbs her.

One thing that makes this bit harder then you might think. Is the fact that you are working with a black and white view. Making it harder to judge if that is a friendly Aura coming in for the revive or a enemy trying to defib finish you. Thats how you end up with situations of Naders blowing themself up (and the Medic in FF-on) when they get revived (personaly I say sorry when that happens).

Martyrdom is all about judging the situation right. Nader has to do it to use martyrdom effectively and the enemy has to judge the situation right aswell to avoid getting killed by Martyrdom (obviously a good Nader tries to play in a fashion that the enemy missjudges more often then she does).