Mapper's Mistakes: A Look Back At Where We Have Grown


(Java.Lang) #1

I thought it would be a fun and entertaining discussion to start a thread regarding “common mapping mistakes”. Specifically, what really silly things we did when new to mapping, and/or what has caused hours of stressfilled editing sessions, only to learn a much easier (and proper) way of doing it.

Let’s start with me…

Well I am a bit drunk now, keke, but the first thing I remember doing wrong, was making my first map, and I wasn’t knowledgeable about caulk, as to the proper way of using it.

I ended up making my whole map out of solid textured brushes, because I didn’t realize how to select individual surfaces on a brush, and so I would have one brush all with the same texture. Some how, I made it work. And then when it came time to caulk, well I just made solid brushes of caulk and placed them in the map to block vis.

Wow, I have come a long way, so where have you come from, and what first comes to mind in your venture for mapping perfection?


(Ifurita) #2

Entity scripts need waits. Your map needs a script_multiplayer.


(Mr_Tickles) #3

Java, you’re drunken idea with this thread is priceless, it really should be stickied for the following reason:
I feel this thread could unlock some good practise tips to others who, like me, are starting out.

One thing that i’ve just come across, if you hold down shift and click the left mouse button you can select objects, but what I didn’t know is that if you keep the two buttons held down you can drag the mouse and any object it passes over are selected. It also works with selecting faces of brushes, i.e. holding down shift+ctrl and left mouse button. If you let go of the buttons you can add extra faces to the selection by holding down Alt aswell. Also this is handy because when you apply a texture, it’s automatically then tessalated across the selected surfaces. Also, it’s handy if you have to brushes in exactly the same space, you can hold the buttons down and move the mouse a tiny bit and the brush underneath is selected aswell.

Edit:

Oh, and there are countless shortcuts which I didn’t even realize there was a long-cut for. Just like when you edit your typing you can hold ctrl down when using the arrow keys to skip a word at a time, shift to highlight, alt to…, oops, nearly lost my edit, both ctrl and shift to highlight faster. Anyway, one of the handy ones to use in radiant is the Ctrl + Enter shortcut when 3/2-point clipping (Ta Triscuit). Also “S” for surface inspector is one that I could’ve quite happily had use of from the start.


(MadJack) #4

I probably could fill an entire thread page with stuff I did when I started. Those were in 1999 with the Q3A engine…

I think most mappers do that kind of mistake and it’s, as you learn new nifty stuff, you try to add it to your current map and it puts too much stuff that doesn’t belong. A map should be about a theme not to cram as much nifty stuff as possible in one place.

Another thing I did was about the scale. I remember having lots of rooms that had doorways barely big enough to let you through. I think the main problem is with the way we see things in Radiant. The point of view is different in the editor than it is in-game. A tip about that is that when you hit PGDN to be “leveled” with a floor that should give you the height of when you’re crouched, move 1 up and it’s about at ET eye level. If you go down instead of up, it’s about the prone point of view.

I’ll leave it at that for the moment :smiley:


(Mean Mr. Mustard) #5

Giving entities ‘scriptname’ and ‘targetname’ keys so that I could manipulate them in the game…only to have ‘entity not found’…wtf!!!..oh, it’s scriptname not scritpname :banghead:

That typo killed me for many hours…


(Ifurita) #6
  1. Description = Axis Spawn causes a map to crash. description = Axis Spawn does not
  2. Do not allow Mustard anywhere near your brushwork

Here’s an article I wrote right after I finished the major parts of Byzantine, about 45 days into my mapping career:

10 Lessons I Learned In My First 45 Days of Mapping (http://planetwolfenstein.com/4newbies/10lessons.htm)

I first installed SD Radiant on or about 8/31/03 and now, ~45 days later, on 10/17/03, I thought I’d look back and see what lessons I could pass on to new mappers. Keep in mind that my perspective is shaped from what I learned making 2 open city maps, one of which was scrapped and another which is getting beta tested on limited servers.

Just jump in. It is not difficult to develop a reasonable proficiency in mapping, the basics anyways. Find a couple of good tutorials and just start making things and experimenting. I was able to make passable prefabs (bunkers and V2 rockets) within a few days. These led to small maps, then to a large sized map, which was ultimately scrapped, and finally to a public beta or a large-scale city map, Byzantine.

Start small and make Legos. Jumping in and immediately laying out an entire map is a pretty daunting task. So daunting, it can really be demoralizing. Instead, start small and make some of the small stuff that will populate your map. You can make prefab bunkers, buildings, and vehicles. Each is a discrete project that has a distinct point where you can say, “OK, done with that, what’s next?” I think this sense of accomplishment and completion is important to a budding mapper because you get to see a finished product. These smaller projects can later be used to quickly populate a new map, once you’re ready to start with an entire map.

Treat tris and FPS like money. Everything you include in your map comes at a cost. Make sure it’s worth it. Be frugal about where you make your players draw tris and lose FPS. There are great maps out there that never get a second look because they are simply unplayable. The benchmarks I used were a steady 76 FPS on my machine and r_speeds less than 20K. Tris and FPS efficiency up front, lets you add in more goodies at the backend.

Learn scripting up front. Scripting is what brings your map to life. It’ll make your vehicles move, objectives destructable, constructables work etc. It seems like a lot of new mappers think of scripting as an afterthought and really only start learning the basics late in the mapping process. If you learn the scripting early, you can actually build and script all the gameplay components of your map and test gameplay BEFORE putting in all the time texturing your map and making detail. It also helps to know what you can make work, objective-wise before you build a map around something that can’t be done.

Mind the details early. Get in the habit of considering the boring details as early in the process as you can. It will save you tons of time. Making a paned window and forgot to caulk some of the unseen faces? Not a big deal? Wait until you’ve cloned this 200 times for your city map and have to go back and fix the caulking. At least that’s optional. Wait until you’ve realized that you forgot to make all of those brushes detail.

Understand the vis process and the difference between structual and detail brushes. There are a couple of really good tutorials that explain how the game engine determines what can be seen and therefore what should be drawn at any point in the map. This is directly determined by how you build your map. A good understanding of this up front leads to more efficient mapping and better gameplay (e.g., players can maintain more consistant FPS, map plays well on a wider range of machine specs).

Compile and test often. For me, one of the rewards of mapping, is being able to run around in a map I’ve created. It’s motivating and gives me a sense that I’m actually making progress. This also ties into #5 in that I get a chance to check out game flow, the scale of structures, width of hallways, and other critical gameplay issues before I spent the time building everything else out.

Be absolutely anal about saving your work. You will lose work and you will make changes that you wish could be undone. Get in the habit of using the Save As function to save your work under a new file name. I’ve gotten in the habit of saving my file every couple of minutes and, at the beginning of each new day and periodically throughout the day, I’ll Save As my file with a date and time stamp. The same is true whenever I make a major change that I might want to reverse. This way, should I ever want to revert to a previous piece of work, I know exactly where I left off with other files. The autosave and .bak files are useful too, but don’t rely on them.

Make maps with character. I like dark, rainy, beach maps as much as the next guy, but I’m not sure that ET is ready for another one. Make something that’s interesting and different, whether it be the environment, gameplay, or creative use of objectives. Pay attention to the lighting, sounds, and other items, which make a player spend some time just wandering around sightseeing and thinking, “Cool!”.

All script routines need {spawn {wait xxx}} and every map needs a script_multiplayer… I can’t think of a single stupid little detail which has cost me more time then these two. "Nuff said.


(MadJack) #7

Great post there Ifurita! That should give a hand to lots of starters! WTG!


(Red*Uk) #8

Locking x,y,z cords and pressing J had me reinstalling radiant a few times :stuck_out_tongue:

i’d say the best was when i dragged a box over a whole map and hit subtract instead of hallow then i panicked (boozy at time) and click the save icon AAARRGGGGG Thank god for the autosave , which took me about an hr to find.


(G0-Gerbil) #9

Surely all of us started out making maps entirely out of structural brushes, then waiting hours for VIS compiles?


(Mr_Tickles) #10

Ok, i’m not doing anything to change my brushes as regards to structural or detail, they start life as detail right? that’s what i’ve heard…


(Ifurita) #11

Surely all of us started out making maps entirely out of structural brushes, then waiting hours for VIS compiles?

Been there. MAX_VERTS_EXCEEDED

Or how about making that 4 story building where every pane of glass is breakable. Sounded like a cool idea when you started …


(Mr_Tickles) #12

Oh please tell me what’s wrong with that?

If you meant making a building entirely out of breakable glass… then yes gravity should come into play. I recently tried doing a few stacked boxes…


(Mean Mr. Mustard) #13
  1. Do not allow Mustard anywhere near your brushwork

:banana:

Join good team of mappers, (say one run by Ifurita…), hardly do any work (few bits of scripting, simple terrain…) but then claim loads of kudos for being on the mapping team


(MadJack) #14

Mr_Tickles, FYI, all brushes are Structural by default! That’s why it’ll take ages to VIS if you don’t make most of the stuff detail. As a rule of thumb, if it’s not a wall, it has to be detail but that’s not entirely true. Shelvings, furnitures, devices in the middle of a room, stairs, most things that have “holes” that you can see through should be detail. Anyway, it’s a start. I’ll eventually make a tut about that.


(=DaRk=CrAzY-NuTTeR) #15

pressing J made me reinstall radiant like 20 times

also i panicked when i pressed 0 on the keypad

made a map with no caulk or sky or detail brushes, i used AI no go shoot thru rather than clip, i didnt know how to only texture one sides of brushes so i had 2 brushes to a wall

stratching a 128 x 128 texture on a 6336 x 6336 brush


(Ifurita) #16

So what makes you freak out more? Not realizing you hit Shift+P or not realizing you hit 0.

What exactly does J do?


(Ifurita) #17

Oh yes, before you clone and move models, make sure you don’t have Clips filtered out - sucks to have to go back and basically redo all of your work.


(Mr_Tickles) #18

Bugger


Dammit, you people are tempting me to press j now. I’m going to remove that key tonight.

Edit:

Oh yeah, Ctrl+x is great one if you want to undo a slightly off bit of 3-point clipping after having done a few hours on that lovely curved netting.


(blushing_bride) #19

i made two whole quake maps from structural brushes. they were smallish so compile was not too long. Then i made a large JKII single player level where the compiles were taking over a day. This forced me to learn about structual/detail stuff. After turning nearly every brush into detail in my map the compile time went down to less then 30 mins.

The other big mistake is planning on making maps that are too big or too complex. Nothing is more depressing then spending months working on a planet sized map only to realise that its a stinking pile of un-compilable, un-playable poo :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


(CptnTriscuit) #20

So it seems the most import thing new mappers should do is READ THE SHORTCUTS LIST! :smiley:

f I had to pick out the biggest mistake from the very large list of mistakes I’ve made, it would be my original mapping mindset of being more concerned about making a map, than making a map correctly. Oh, and not immediately leaning the wonders of the clipper tool.

Honor the ctrl+rightclick!