M4 seems trash compared to timik

[Ballto]

the M4 seems garbage compared to the timik. Now here is the difference between the two as i understand it.

Timik:
Worse Recoil
Better damage
Better damage over range
Better accuracy hipfired
Similar/marginally worse bloon/shot

now, i have absolutely no issue with recoil. I can manage it very well, and have a 35-45% accuracy on all weapons, something in the higher end on my ARs. The only gun i have serious issues with recoil wise is the mp400, a machine pistol, when im trying to shoot people out of turrets on my proxy.

i traded my glorious t65 stoker up to a gold to trade those golds to cobalts and got this

So, is the weapon just kind of gimpy if you can manage the timiks recoil, or am i just bad.

If you want i can probably upload a match of me playing

[Faraleth]

Yeah, the Timik is often “better” than the M4 if you can manage it well - pretty much for all the reasons you listed above. People just like to think the M4 is superior because of it’s accuracy and low recoil, of which they aren’t necessarily wrong, it’s just more of a go-to weapon for those who can’t use the Timik so well.

[Jostabeere]

Well…M4 is defined the best AR in the game by most people. Since it has nearly no recoil.
But both guns are quite same in stats. Timik was much worse, and then SD made it a slight M4-clone.
If you like the Timik, use it.
I don’t like both that much, but prefer M4 for a simple fact. I can’t hit shit with the Timik over like 5 meters.
I prefer burst-rifles.

[Ballto]

alright thanks, ive been doing okay but in 1v1 scenarios ive found more people are living with 5% HP when they just werent when i had the timik because lower damage output

[XavienX]

I feel like with the M4, just putting 2 headshots on a enemy is like a guaranteed win for me and also at long range, the low recoil on the scope is far more superior IMO unlike Timik where you can hardly see anything with the gun wiggling around everywhere.

[WaffleMonster]

The problem with the timik is its spread which makes going for headshots at medium range very rng whilst the m4 is very consistent. I personally love the feeling, sound and look of the timik but the extra dps it has doesn’t justify its spread.

[watsyurdeal]

The Timik has more predictable recoil and spread since it literally goes straight up in a / line, so it’s my preferred gun.

Though the only ones who can get it are Skyhammer, Stoker, and Thunder, 2 of which I don’t really use.

[Amerika]

The M4 and the Timik do the exact same damage per bullet. The Timik has a longer range but it tends to wander more making longer shots, especially sustained fire, sometimes rough compared to the M4. I haven’t tried the Timik since the most recent change however but before it I had issues with it wandering quite a bit where the M4 just never seems to do that.

The Timik only has a slight RoF advantage that is barely worth mentioning and the same can be said about the reload.

They are mostly just clones of each other with slightly different quirks in handling but the M4 has been preferred by many simply due to it being very reliable in almost every situation you find yourself in actual DB play and not theoretical play on paper.

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“Ballto;22450”]the M4 seems garbage compared to the timik. Now here is the difference between the two as i understand it.

Timik:
Worse Recoil
Better damage
Better damage over range
Better accuracy hipfired
Similar/marginally worse bloon/shot

now, i have absolutely no issue with recoil. I can manage it very well, and have a 35-45% accuracy on all weapons, something in the higher end on my ARs. The only gun i have serious issues with recoil wise is the mp400, a machine pistol, when im trying to shoot people out of turrets on my proxy.

i traded my glorious t65 stoker up to a gold to trade those golds to cobalts and got this

So, is the weapon just kind of gimpy if you can manage the timiks recoil, or am i just bad.

If you want i can probably upload a match of me playing[/quote]

The Timik doesn’t have better accuracy while hipfired - it has a bit more spread, and that’s the main downside to using the Timik over the M4 - you have to ADS if you want to shoot at range, rather than being able to hipfire and make use of the non-obstructive crosshair and the ability to strafe at faster speeds.

The M4 on the other hand has a SLIGHTLY worse DPS, but most of the time it’s unnoticeable in my opinion.

The differences between both guns is so marginal, that you should really pick your loadout card in regards to the sidearm/augments than the primary.

[Tanker_Ray]

[quote=“Amerika;136713”]The M4 and the Timik do the exact same damage per bullet. The Timik has a longer range but it tends to wander more making longer shots, especially sustained fire, sometimes rough compared to the M4. I haven’t tried the Timik since the most recent change however but before it I had issues with it wandering quite a bit where the M4 just never seems to do that.

The Timik only has a slight RoF advantage that is barely worth mentioning and the same can be said about the reload.

They are mostly just clones of each other with slightly different quirks in handling but the M4 has been preferred by many simply due to it being very reliable in almost every situation you find yourself in actual DB play and not theoretical play on paper.[/quote]

You should try the buffed Timik. It is quite ok as a gun right now, though it is still slightly faster firing unstable M4.

Well, iron sight sucks but at least it is much much better than before, when hip firing. That 10% whole recoil reducement buff was real big.

I think Biggest advantage using Timik over M4 is the reload speed. Changing mag animation is much quicker than M4, so with animation cancelling you reload far faster than M4. At least on paper, their reload speed difference is 0.1 sec, but with Drilled and animation cancelling, it is huge indeed.

[watsyurdeal]

For me honestly, I know this is unpopular opinion, but once we get more loadout cards, and all the mercs who have the M4 also get the Timik and vice versa, I feel like the M4 should be reworked.

Just give the Timik 110 for the interval, and keep it where it’s at for everything else, I feel like it should be the heavier hitting slower firing of the two. The M4 could do less damage and fire faster, I feel like the KEK is what the M4 should be, but that’s just me. I have a ton more opinions about this stuff but I’ll have to dig deeper later.

[Tanker_Ray]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;137190”]For me honestly, I know this is unpopular opinion, but once we get more loadout cards, and all the mercs who have the M4 also get the Timik and vice versa, I feel like the M4 should be reworked.

Just give the Timik 110 for the interval, and keep it where it’s at for everything else, I feel like it should be the heavier hitting slower firing of the two. The M4 could do less damage and fire faster, I feel like the KEK is what the M4 should be, but that’s just me. I have a ton more opinions about this stuff but I’ll have to dig deeper later.[/quote]

nah, I agree with you most of the time, but would have to disagree this one. Timik is the one that has to be changed.

Skyhammer is default merc with his M4 as default weapon, and M4 is perfect gun to use for any players in DB regardless of their skills.

Most people expect Timik would be something different than M4, not the opposite, as they are going to trade-up for other guns rather than M4 like Timik, expecting something would be different from M4.

M4 is actually same as Kek’s position, since it is default weapon for Bush, which is considered as best starting engineer. (Also M9 pistol too. Arguably best pistol in DB)

Easy to use, decent at any situation. M4 and Kek already does that, so Timik needs specific feature, characteristics.

[Tanker_Ray]

[quote=“Jostabeere;135373”]Well…M4 is defined the best AR in the game by most people. Since it has nearly no recoil.
But both guns are quite same in stats. Timik was much worse, and then SD made it a slight M4-clone.
If you like the Timik, use it.
I don’t like both that much, but prefer M4 for a simple fact. I can’t hit shit with the Timik over like 5 meters.
I prefer burst-rifles.[/quote]

Burst rifles are so insane nowadays, especially the BR.

I think Stark’s burst delay is quite ok, eventhough Stark is a bit strong right now.

But the BR… holy shxt its got every good stats except the slow reload. Crazy gun.

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“ThunderPro;137195”][quote=“Jostabeere;135373”]Well…M4 is defined the best AR in the game by most people. Since it has nearly no recoil.
But both guns are quite same in stats. Timik was much worse, and then SD made it a slight M4-clone.
If you like the Timik, use it.
I don’t like both that much, but prefer M4 for a simple fact. I can’t hit shit with the Timik over like 5 meters.
I prefer burst-rifles.[/quote]

Burst rifles are so insane nowadays, especially the BR.

I think Stark’s burst delay is quite ok, eventhough Stark is a bit strong right now.

But the BR… holy shxt its got every good stats except the slow reload. Crazy gun.[/quote]

So I don’t have Arty, Kira, Stoker or Thunder, but I use the BR-16 a fair bit on Skyhammer and Fragger. Would you say the Stark is better or worse than the BR? I haven’t been able to use the updated Stark at all yet.

[Dawnlazy]

[quote=“ProfPlump;137309”][quote=“ThunderPro;137195”][quote=“Jostabeere;135373”]Well…M4 is defined the best AR in the game by most people. Since it has nearly no recoil.
But both guns are quite same in stats. Timik was much worse, and then SD made it a slight M4-clone.
If you like the Timik, use it.
I don’t like both that much, but prefer M4 for a simple fact. I can’t hit shit with the Timik over like 5 meters.
I prefer burst-rifles.[/quote]

Burst rifles are so insane nowadays, especially the BR.

I think Stark’s burst delay is quite ok, eventhough Stark is a bit strong right now.

But the BR… holy shxt its got every good stats except the slow reload. Crazy gun.[/quote]

So I don’t have Arty, Kira, Stoker or Thunder, but I use the BR-16 a fair bit on Skyhammer and Fragger. Would you say the Stark is better or worse than the BR? I haven’t been able to use the updated Stark at all yet.[/quote]

I find it better because it’s easier to hit all 3 bullets since the burst is faster. The BR will also frequently leave people barely alive where the Stark would have gotten the kill.

[WaffleMonster]

[quote=“ProfPlump;137309”][quote=“ThunderPro;137195”][quote=“Jostabeere;135373”]Well…M4 is defined the best AR in the game by most people. Since it has nearly no recoil.
But both guns are quite same in stats. Timik was much worse, and then SD made it a slight M4-clone.
If you like the Timik, use it.
I don’t like both that much, but prefer M4 for a simple fact. I can’t hit shit with the Timik over like 5 meters.
I prefer burst-rifles.[/quote]

Burst rifles are so insane nowadays, especially the BR.

I think Stark’s burst delay is quite ok, eventhough Stark is a bit strong right now.

But the BR… holy shxt its got every good stats except the slow reload. Crazy gun.[/quote]

So I don’t have Arty, Kira, Stoker or Thunder, but I use the BR-16 a fair bit on Skyhammer and Fragger. Would you say the Stark is better or worse than the BR? I haven’t been able to use the updated Stark at all yet.[/quote]

It’s preference, the br16 has slightly higher dps and slightly higher damage per magazine whilst the stark has slightly higher damage per burst. The biggest factor for me is the sound of the 2 weapons. The br sounds awful whilst the stark doesn’t.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“ThunderPro;137193”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;137190”]For me honestly, I know this is unpopular opinion, but once we get more loadout cards, and all the mercs who have the M4 also get the Timik and vice versa, I feel like the M4 should be reworked.

Just give the Timik 110 for the interval, and keep it where it’s at for everything else, I feel like it should be the heavier hitting slower firing of the two. The M4 could do less damage and fire faster, I feel like the KEK is what the M4 should be, but that’s just me. I have a ton more opinions about this stuff but I’ll have to dig deeper later.[/quote]

nah, I agree with you most of the time, but would have to disagree this one. Timik is the one that has to be changed.

Skyhammer is default merc with his M4 as default weapon, and M4 is perfect gun to use for any players in DB regardless of their skills.

Most people expect Timik would be something different than M4, not the opposite, as they are going to trade-up for other guns rather than M4 like Timik, expecting something would be different from M4.

M4 is actually same as Kek’s position, since it is default weapon for Bush, which is considered as best starting engineer. (Also M9 pistol too. Arguably best pistol in DB)

Easy to use, decent at any situation. M4 and Kek already does that, so Timik needs specific feature, characteristics.

[/quote]

Problem with that is it doesn’t make sense, I hear people say they want the Timik to be a heavy hitting, hard recoil weapon, which it already is.

The M4 doesn’t need to have a slower RoF, if anything it should be higher. Plus, consider this

1. Stoker and Skyhammer have access to both, so it wouldn’t matter to them as much, and if anything would give them more diversity in weapons.

2. Fragger has access to the M4, and already has a hard hitting slow firing weapon, the K 121, change the M4 to have a faster rate of fire and less damage, and that adds a lot more variety to Fragger’s arsenal until he gets more cards.

[Tanker_Ray]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;137593”][quote=“ThunderPro;137193”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;137190”]For me honestly, I know this is unpopular opinion, but once we get more loadout cards, and all the mercs who have the M4 also get the Timik and vice versa, I feel like the M4 should be reworked.

Just give the Timik 110 for the interval, and keep it where it’s at for everything else, I feel like it should be the heavier hitting slower firing of the two. The M4 could do less damage and fire faster, I feel like the KEK is what the M4 should be, but that’s just me. I have a ton more opinions about this stuff but I’ll have to dig deeper later.[/quote]

nah, I agree with you most of the time, but would have to disagree this one. Timik is the one that has to be changed.

Skyhammer is default merc with his M4 as default weapon, and M4 is perfect gun to use for any players in DB regardless of their skills.

Most people expect Timik would be something different than M4, not the opposite, as they are going to trade-up for other guns rather than M4 like Timik, expecting something would be different from M4.

M4 is actually same as Kek’s position, since it is default weapon for Bush, which is considered as best starting engineer. (Also M9 pistol too. Arguably best pistol in DB)

Easy to use, decent at any situation. M4 and Kek already does that, so Timik needs specific feature, characteristics.

[/quote]

Problem with that is it doesn’t make sense, I hear people say they want the Timik to be a heavy hitting, hard recoil weapon, which it already is.

The M4 doesn’t need to have a slower RoF, if anything it should be higher. Plus, consider this

1. Stoker and Skyhammer have access to both, so it wouldn’t matter to them as much, and if anything would give them more diversity in weapons.

2. Fragger has access to the M4, and already has a hard hitting slow firing weapon, the K 121, change the M4 to have a faster rate of fire and less damage, and that adds a lot more variety to Fragger’s arsenal until he gets more cards.[/quote]

I just can’t accept this ‘I hear people say they want the Timik to be a heavy hitting, hard recoil weapon, which it already is’ part. This doesn’t make sense.

After the 10% total recoil reduction buff, it just became to slightly fast firing, reloading M4.

Before? yes it had high recoil, but not harder hitting. Definitely not. 14 damage same as M4 is NOT harder hitting. Also, this part just proves M4 was better than Timik before, because according to your logic, M4 is harder hitting gun with much more stable recoil.

Well, your part about Fragger is quite ok one, but M4’s feature is a ‘moderate, average gun’, not SMG which already fast shoots low damage. Compare to K-121, it is already a lower damage faster firing gun than K-121.

Besides M4’s characteristic, I was trying to emphasize that M4’s main part is ‘this gun has easiest accessibility among any other guns’.

The fact that Stoker and Skyhammer have access to other guns can’t tell DB newbies are going to use that immediately from the very starting point, unless they open cases and get the other gun’s bronze loadout.

M4 is guaranteed for everyone’s first gun usage, unless some of them use Aura only.

M4 always had the most average damage,recoil,reload,DPS, so this shouldn’t be changed to be more special at some specific stats. This kind of gun helps people get used to DB’s own FPS style a lot. Which means it DOES matter for everyone if you change the M4.

Unless Stoker is the starting merc for everyone, I still don’t see why M4 should be changed in to low damage fast firing gun, and Timik has to stay the same.

[Tanker_Ray]

[quote=“ProfPlump;137309”][quote=“ThunderPro;137195”][quote=“Jostabeere;135373”]Well…M4 is defined the best AR in the game by most people. Since it has nearly no recoil.
But both guns are quite same in stats. Timik was much worse, and then SD made it a slight M4-clone.
If you like the Timik, use it.
I don’t like both that much, but prefer M4 for a simple fact. I can’t hit shit with the Timik over like 5 meters.
I prefer burst-rifles.[/quote]

Burst rifles are so insane nowadays, especially the BR.

I think Stark’s burst delay is quite ok, eventhough Stark is a bit strong right now.

But the BR… holy shxt its got every good stats except the slow reload. Crazy gun.[/quote]

So I don’t have Arty, Kira, Stoker or Thunder, but I use the BR-16 a fair bit on Skyhammer and Fragger. Would you say the Stark is better or worse than the BR? I haven’t been able to use the updated Stark at all yet.[/quote]

I agree with the burst speed part that @Dawnrazor told you, but faster RoF between the burst, +3 mag is so damn huge.

Since Stark is Steyr AUG A1, it looks cooler than BR, but well that’s all except the small parts.

Stark does have 1 more damage, 1m longer range, bit faster burst speed(857RPM>800RPM) but BR-16 is good at every situation. Burst RPM is just pure insane. Also, one more burst able is big too.

I would have to say BR is much better because of that. 1 damage and 1m range isn’t a big deal since BR’s 17damage per shot is strong enough too.

If Stark could one shot 110HP merc by one burst all headshot, I would’ve said those two are quite equal, but BR is also able to one shot any mercs with under 100HP, Since 17x3x2=102. Not that huge difference between 102 and 108.

Only part that burst rifles suffer is the reload speed, so I highly recommend you to use Drilled with it.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;137593”][quote=“ThunderPro;137193”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;137190”]For me honestly, I know this is unpopular opinion, but once we get more loadout cards, and all the mercs who have the M4 also get the Timik and vice versa, I feel like the M4 should be reworked.

Just give the Timik 110 for the interval, and keep it where it’s at for everything else, I feel like it should be the heavier hitting slower firing of the two. The M4 could do less damage and fire faster, I feel like the KEK is what the M4 should be, but that’s just me. I have a ton more opinions about this stuff but I’ll have to dig deeper later.[/quote]

nah, I agree with you most of the time, but would have to disagree this one. Timik is the one that has to be changed.

Skyhammer is default merc with his M4 as default weapon, and M4 is perfect gun to use for any players in DB regardless of their skills.

Most people expect Timik would be something different than M4, not the opposite, as they are going to trade-up for other guns rather than M4 like Timik, expecting something would be different from M4.

M4 is actually same as Kek’s position, since it is default weapon for Bush, which is considered as best starting engineer. (Also M9 pistol too. Arguably best pistol in DB)

Easy to use, decent at any situation. M4 and Kek already does that, so Timik needs specific feature, characteristics.

Problem with that is it doesn’t make sense, I hear people say they want the Timik to be a heavy hitting, hard recoil weapon, which it already is.

The M4 doesn’t need to have a slower RoF, if anything it should be higher. Plus, consider this

1. Stoker and Skyhammer have access to both, so it wouldn’t matter to them as much, and if anything would give them more diversity in weapons.

2. Fragger has access to the M4, and already has a hard hitting slow firing weapon, the K 121, change the M4 to have a faster rate of fire and less damage, and that adds a lot more variety to Fragger’s arsenal until he gets more cards.[/quote]

I just can’t accept this ‘I hear people say they want the Timik to be a heavy hitting, hard recoil weapon, which it already is’ part. This doesn’t make sense.

After the 10% total recoil reduction buff, it just became to slightly fast firing, reloading M4.

Before? yes it had high recoil, but not harder hitting. Definitely not. 14 damage same as M4 is NOT harder hitting. Also, this part just proves M4 was better than Timik before, because according to your logic, M4 is harder hitting gun with much more stable recoil.

Well, your part about Fragger is quite ok one, but M4’s feature is a ‘moderate, average gun’, not SMG which already fast shoots low damage. Compare to K-121, it is already a lower damage faster firing gun than K-121.

Besides M4’s characteristic, I was trying to emphasize that M4’s main part is ‘this gun has easiest accessibility among any other guns’.

The fact that Stoker and Skyhammer have access to other guns can’t tell DB newbies are going to use that immediately from the very starting point, unless they open cases and get the other gun’s bronze loadout.

M4 is guaranteed for everyone’s first gun usage, unless some of them use Aura only.

M4 always had the most average damage,recoil,reload,DPS, so this shouldn’t be changed to be more special at some specific stats. This kind of gun helps people get used to DB’s own FPS style a lot. Which means it DOES matter for everyone if you change the M4.

Unless Stoker is the starting merc for everyone, I still don’t see why M4 should be changed in to low damage fast firing gun, and Timik has to stay the same.[/quote]

Maybe because if you look at every rendition of the M4 and AK since the dawn of time, the M4 has always had the faster rate of fire, and less damage, and the AK has always been a harder to control but harder hitting weapon. You may not like that explanation, but think about it, the AK has always fired a 7.62 round and fires around 600 rpm, while the M4 fires a 5.56 and has about 700 rpm. Sure it may be for the sake of realism, but it’s really better than the current where the guns are basically the exact freaking same.

About the only thing they could do is up the damage of the Timik by 1, and that still would make them far too similar.

I think it’s best to distinguish the two as much as possible for the sake of variety. And again, there is literally no reason not to seeing as how the only merc who wouldn’t have access to both the Timik and M4 would be Fragger, and he already has a slow hard hitting weapon. It adds more to the game, and I think that’s a good enough reason.