London Bridge Barriers - Whats the rush?

(iwound) #1

At the moment you can only build barriers once the ev is moving and the last barrier when the datacores are delivered to the ev.

barrier 1
once ev is repaired you can build barrier. if your still alive youll either have to fight through the attackers first or if your dead, respawn then attempt a build under extreme pressure.
This mainly results in a build, c4 plant soon after, then ev moves on. at least on this barrier there are some defuses and some defence of this barrier.
But why force me to build the barrier in that small window of opportunity.

barrier 3
as you know to build this barrier firstly you have to be at the right end of the street. if your still at last objective a few seconds after ev moves your not going to build it. if you were lucky enough to die a few seconds before the ev moves and a medic doesnt decide to revive you in completely the wrong place then you have a chance to spawn just at the change and run for the barrier. never enough back up.

I hate this. DB is a fast paced game but as a player i look for parts in a game i can slow down, think, make a decision, have a brew. this is pushing too much.

If barrier 3 were buildable anytime then it would be more about c4 plant and defuse rather than who gets to the barrier build first but it doesnt matter cos we just use c4 anyway. atm its so predictable. build,c4, ev moves on.

one major issue with this is the long street where attack spawn and can see easily up the street. maybe a van crashed into a shop that the ev moves around will block the view between the two teams.
Also its too far towards the attack.
Give me cover, give me time, give me waves.

Please change this. im on barrier strike until its sorted.:mad:
and just to be off topic in my own thread. wtf is it with these split times, can i at least finish a level. is the map 5mins, 10 mins, 20 mins. with this and the crashes its not a lot of fun. its another thing saying “You must do this now immediately, NOW! cmon youve only got a couple of mins left” even though the map just started WTF!
why is the computer deciding that iv had too much fun and it must end.

(Violator) #2

I’ve got mixed views about this. Barrier 3 is pure luck to be able to build, I think the problem here is defense needs to spawn nearer to the barrier to give them time to build. The other problem is its nearly impossible to defuse armed c4, usually because there isn’t enough time to get there from spawn, or the fact you can’t move while you are disarming and there is no cover except the barrier itself (and you can be shot from the other side of it anyway). I can count on one hand the times I’ve managed to defuse a barrier (except barrier 2, that works pretty well + you can build it in advance once barrier 1 is activated). The Waterloo trains are a lot better as there is a lot of cover and the rest of the team can guard the attack points more effectively.

Letting players build all barriers off the bat might be distracting from the main objective too much (thinking wall breaches on Salvage). I think the problem is spawn distances.

(Humate) #3

Since you can objective camp the datacores on LB pretty effectively, barrier 3 should be available.

(iwound) #4

[QUOTE=Violator;427600]
Letting players build all barriers off the bat might be distracting from the main objective too much (thinking wall breaches on Salvage). I think the problem is spawn distances.[/QUOTE]

think how it worked in et. people dont always build straight away. and if they did then attack can c4 it. it should be a side obj not a main obj. salvage walls couldnt be rebuilt. a barrier can be re-won.
ive considered spawn distance but for me its still a mad rush for what is in the end a small delay for attack. about as useful as an airstrike atm.
id like to be able to fight around the attackers side of the barrier over c4 rights. but expected lifespan that side isnt very long.
An earlier build would encourage setting up a defence around the barrier to prevent a plant. this atm never happens.
ive considered spawn distances but i prefer a pre-build. i suppose if defense were to spawn further up until ev is past barrier it would help but then it might impact on attack making progress and could end up with too many holds there. a pre-build is just a small tweak with lesser impact on other things.

(SockDog) #5

Yes for better barrier building.

And on the timers, I find them annoying too. I believe it’s meant to cut down on 20 minute full holds by ending the game early, my opinion is that if there are 20 minute full holds the bloody teams need to be balanced. Maybe initiate a autobalance shuffle automatically if those timer points are reached but let play then continue. This might also discourage derpy stacked dicks dominating a server until it empties.

(meat) #6

I play engie alot on LB and I have never been able to build barrier 3. Its a long way from the spawn point. I have only seen it built a handful of times total.
Planting c4 is a whole diffrent problem. Part of the reason I think is you can’t plant a c4 charge and then have other people arm it like in ETQW. There are alot of explosive objectives in ETQW and you can plant a charge and then die, and someone else can finish arming it, it helps if 2 or 3 people all help arm a existing charge, instead of having to do it all in one life. I have to finish the entire arming of my c4 in one life in DB, you can’t finish someone elses charge, or comeback and finish your own charge.

(Kendle) #7

If you could build / destroy the barriers irrespective of the EV’s location / stage of the map, Engies from each team would do just that rather than help achieve the objective. This is exactly what happened in ET, especially on Goldrush, the map London Bridge seems to emulate.

Engies building / blowing stuff partly because they can but mostly because they get XP for it and sod the objective? No thanks, I’m glad they’ve addressed this in DB.

However some movement on spawn points, and perhaps the ability to choose a spawn point and /kill to get there in a timely manner would help, because as you say it’s a bit luck of draw whether 1 or 3 ever get built, or are defendable.

(iwound) #8

[QUOTE=Kendle;427618]

Engies building / blowing stuff partly because they can but mostly because they get XP for it and sod the objective? No thanks, I’m glad they’ve addressed this in DB.[/QUOTE]

So your only issue is with XP, then fine remove early xp reward for it. its a legitimate tactical objective.

(Runeforce) #9

I like that you can’t build it rigth away. Barrier 1 works fine. The rest of the barriers you should be able to build as soon as the EV passes the previous barrier (so that means you should be able to build barrier 2 later then current and barrier 3 earlier then current.)

(Ecano) #10

+1 for to be able to build next barrier as soon as the EV passes the previous one

+1 for someone else can finish arming charge when you die or leave it.

(Kendle) #11

Not “only” issue, it’s also a distraction, if Engies can build barrier 3 when all the action is at barrier 1, then someone will do just that, even though they’d be helping the team infinitely more at barrier 1. I think it’s an important device for encouraging team-work to restrict un-necessary activities in this way.

The real issue is having time to build the barriers once they become “active”. Re-positioning spawn points, or allowing multiple spawn points to be selected ET style is surely the way to do that?

(iwound) #12

i like this. it makes logical sense. plus it extends the window for building it.

[QUOTE=Kendle;427640]Not “only” issue, it’s also a distraction, if Engies can build barrier 3 when all the action is at barrier 1, then someone will do just that, even though they’d be helping the team infinitely more at barrier 1. I think it’s an important device for encouraging team-work to restrict un-necessary activities in this way.

The real issue is having time to build the barriers once they become “active”. Re-positioning spawn points, or allowing multiple spawn points to be selected ET style is surely the way to do that?[/QUOTE]

i cant disagree. runeforce made a good suggestion.

(ImageOmega) #13

[QUOTE=Kendle;427640]Not “only” issue, it’s also a distraction, if Engies can build barrier 3 when all the action is at barrier 1, then someone will do just that, even though they’d be helping the team infinitely more at barrier 1. I think it’s an important device for encouraging team-work to restrict un-necessary activities in this way.

The real issue is having time to build the barriers once they become “active”. Re-positioning spawn points, or allowing multiple spawn points to be selected ET style is surely the way to do that?[/QUOTE]

I agree that being able to build any barrier you want at any time detracts from the gameplay. If Engie’s were allowed to build whenever then they would actually be stupid to not go and build all three barriers right off the bat. This just seems to take away from the action or actual primary objectives. Also, it is much easier for the defending team to build those later barriers off the start than it would be for an offensive player to get past the defense and plant a C4. Then the other issue is it is easier for a defending player to respawn and disarm any planet C4 as opposed to an attacking player being able to actually defend it.

The real issue is probably the spawn points. For instance, for barrier 3, if you end up spawning at the datacore spawn right before they complete the objective, then you have quite the task to try to get to barrier 3. It seems like it would benefit the next objective if the datacore area was flipped (if that makes sense). But, I guess the other solution for worried engies is to hit the K “key” and get the right spawn.

I like this as a possible solution. The map does seem set up to support this.

One final thought: I think the arming by a single person is fine. It only takes 4 seconds to plant and you actually have cover from the barricade.

(cerebruz) #14

Think one reason why the third barrier cannot be immediately built is that it is just behind the attackers spawn, LB is circular. Maybe that barrier can be built once the EV passes barrier 2?

(Kendle) #15

Yep, +1 to what Runeforce said, it’d help a lot on LB being able to build 3 right after 2 is passed, and I’ve never had a problem building 2 after the EV has passed 1 anyway.

(Kordin) #16

This would help to build up the barrier 3 for sure but i dont think thats the real problem of this barrier. Even when its build its not a big problem for attackers to blow it up befor the EV is at the barricade because defending this barrier is not rly possible imo. The defenders spawn is too far away and the attackers coming from so many angels that defence players always die rly fast at barrier 3.

For me it allways feels like defending begins not befor the EV passed the last archway. Defenders in front of the archway just get backraped and killed instanly from every direction. After the EV passed the last archway its exactly inverse. Defenders got short ways from the spawn to obj and can come from many directions and small corridors while attackers only got a few ways to get into the last area and long ways from spawn.

So for me the main problem of this last stage is not that u cant build up the barrier 3 because its pretty much useless atm anyways. As Kendle said, repositioning spawn points would be maybe the best solution. This would solve the real problem, the imbalance between attack and defence befor and after the archway.

Another option could be to repostion barrier 3 and switch it back to the last archway. Would be closer to defenders spawn and much better defendable. But changing spawn points would be better for the overall balance of this stage…

(Violator) #17

[QUOTE=ImageOmega;427655]
One final thought: I think the arming by a single person is fine. It only takes 4 seconds to plant and you actually have cover from the barricade.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been shot numerous times while thinking I’m safely crouched behind the barricade (even the high bits) from the other side - worse only your head is visible so you are headshotted to death. Barrier 3 should be buildable (it IS a word infernal spellchecker) once the EV blows the docs room. The point of distraction from the main objective was the one I made earlier, rather than the objective type per se (salvage wall probably a bad example).

(iwound) #18

[QUOTE=meat;427616]
Planting c4 is a whole diffrent problem. Part of the reason I think is you can’t plant a c4 charge and then have other people arm it like in ETQW. There are alot of explosive objectives in ETQW and you can plant a charge and then die, and someone else can finish arming it, it helps if 2 or 3 people all help arm a existing charge, instead of having to do it all in one life. I have to finish the entire arming of my c4 in one life in DB, you can’t finish someone elses charge, or comeback and finish your own charge.[/QUOTE]

i also want this and the same for defuse, very frustrating to have to begin defuse from scratch each time. multiple people defusing and arming = team work.:rolleyes:

(Kl3ppy) #19

[QUOTE=meat;427616]
Planting c4 is a whole diffrent problem. Part of the reason I think is you can’t plant a c4 charge and then have other people arm it like in ETQW. There are alot of explosive objectives in ETQW and you can plant a charge and then die, and someone else can finish arming it, it helps if 2 or 3 people all help arm a existing charge, instead of having to do it all in one life. I have to finish the entire arming of my c4 in one life in DB, you can’t finish someone elses charge, or comeback and finish your own charge.[/QUOTE]

Nothing to add. Also the disarming speed should raise when 2 or more engis disarm at once.

(nailzor) #20

Negative!

Being able to build them at any time would make your mindset going into each map that there is no huge rush from one stage to another - the barrier will be up, nothing you can do about it.

I like the way it is right now because there IS a need to rush from one stage to another to prevent them from building the barrier. If it was able to be built anytime then there would be mass building at the beginning by 1 person on defense, or maybe just build 1-2 of them with the offense having NOTHING that they can do about it, can’t exactly jump over all the walls etc.