London Bridge Barriers - Whats the rush?

[amazinglarry]

I had posted a complaint about that 3rd barrier as well:

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/34078-London-Bridge-Barricade-3-Objective

So I’m voting for ‘Build anytime’.

[Ashog]

Just need to enable building barriers at any time and also move the third barrier even further away from defenders spawn - to after the first street turn after the cell objective. If placed right after the street turns, it might give a better disarming position for the defense. As an option, introduce an intermediate spawn for the defense in the garage, closer to the street turn. As soon as the 3rd barrier is crossed by EV, move the defenders spawn to its current far-away location.

[EnderWiggin.DA]

I’m curious, what percentage of the time is the 3rd barrier actually built? It probably shouldn’t be 100%.

SD appears to have made a conscious game design decision to focus all the players on one objective instead of how it was in RTCW and ET. That’s cool, but with the offense on LB always pushing forward and the defense spawning so far back in this last stage it shows this objective needs just a little love to balance it out. I usually play engineer and getting from the last defensive spawn to build the barricade before the offense gets there is very difficult. Falling back right away is the best option but success depends highly on where you are when they get the second container loaded on the EV. IMO, it’s a map problem, not a design problem.

[SockDog]

The issue also resides with the container objective. It doesn’t really need the whole attacking team to achieve it which then leaves 1-2 players quite easily available to get up the street and lay in wait to ambush the defensive engineer. Given the short time period to get the barrier up before the EV passes it you rarely get time to sweep the area or have adequate support (because half the team are still at the container objective or waiting out their 15 seconds!!!). So you run, look, start building and ultimately die.

And even when you do succeed it’s usually followed by a quick offensive plant that gets defended by that long street view and many blind side alleys.

Perhaps there needs to be something similar to Chivarly here. When an objective falls you get the option to respawn immediately at the new spawn by pressing a button. This would regroup the defense and offense regardless of a spawn/wave timer and get both teams back in line for the next fight. Think it would at least bring some consistency.

[Maca]

Perhaps there needs to be something similar to Chivarly here. When an objective falls you get the option to respawn immediately at the new spawn by pressing a button. This would regroup the defense and offense regardless of a spawn/wave timer and get both teams back in line for the next fight. Think it would at least bring some consistency.

This sounds very interesting. So basically when a spawn is lost, you would get this possibility

[SockDog]

Yes. Of course there are still shifting spawns for say escort missions. Yet once the objective is met you get a small window to confirm you want to spawn at the next defendable spawn. You can even continue to fight at that point up until the time runs out and you automatically respawn. Fortunately Anti plays Chivarly so I’m sure he knows what I’m talking about.

[iwound]

Yes. Of course there are still shifting spawns for say escort missions. Yet once the objective is met you get a small window to confirm you want to spawn at the next defendable spawn. You can even continue to fight at that point up until the time runs out and you automatically respawn. Fortunately Anti plays Chivarly so I’m sure he knows what I’m talking about.

ive no idea what you mean afaik thats what happens now. you press suicide to spawn at rear base or sit there twiddling ones thumbs.
that doesnt help though. imo defense should be able to build the barrier and attack the ev and have a fight down that street as the ev moves up.
but atm you just dont bother unless your bored waiting for the ev to arrive at the 1st yard so you start to have a decent fight.

part of the problem is lack of spawn waves, spawn positions and being able to build the barrier before it is now.
kendle had an issue with people building and c4ing the barrier way before needed.
the idea further above declares a rule, something that can be carried over to all maps. only build next barrier when previous has been passed.
then if other issues arise then you design around this. Then a player would more easily understand when he can build due to the rule.

myself and others ive noticed are starting to give up on the cores to sneak back and build the barrier which gets back to kendles issue of pulling players away from the main objective.
The rule would give a reasonable time to build and wouldnt draw players too far from a main objective.
But introducing even more complex spawn rules is wrong imo. scrap them all and get back to basics. spawn waves.

[SockDog]

[QUOTE=iwound;428156]ive no idea what you mean afaik thats what happens now. you press suicide to spawn at rear base or sit there twiddling ones thumbs.
that doesnt help though. imo defense should be able to build the barrier and attack the ev and have a fight down that street as the ev moves up.
but atm you just dont bother unless your bored waiting for the ev to arrive at the 1st yard so you start to have a decent fight.[/quote]

It’s not exactly what happens because right now you die and then wait 15 seconds to respawn. Your team mate dies 10 seconds later and respawns in 15 from that time etc etc. What I’m saying is that on an objective like the cannisters, you get an option to spawn, as a team, at the same time, very quickly.

So they load the second cannister
Option appears,“Press F1 to Respawn at Forward Spawn”
You Press F1 in any time between 1-5secs
On the 5th second, anyone who pressed F1 dies and is immediately respawned.

The point being that from that point you’d have a much better chance at setting up the barrier, mounting a defesnse etc.

part of the problem is lack of spawn waves, spawn positions and being able to build the barrier before it is now.
kendle had an issue with people building and c4ing the barrier way before needed.
the idea further above declares a rule, something that can be carried over to all maps. only build next barrier when previous has been passed.
then if other issues arise then you design around this. Then a player would more easily understand when he can build due to the rule.

myself and others ive noticed are starting to give up on the cores to sneak back and build the barrier which gets back to kendles issue of pulling players away from the main objective.
The rule would give a reasonable time to build and wouldnt draw players too far from a main objective.
But introducing even more complex spawn rules is wrong imo. scrap them all and get back to basics. spawn waves.

Yup, agree that the barrier building is a separate issue that should be addressed. Spawn waves would of course help but even so I quite like the idea of a team being allowed a reset on losing an objective. Even on Barrier 1 this could help that initial push to get it built and hold it.

Guess we need spawn waves back first though.

[iwound]

ok i undestand now.
but its still a complicated rule to fix a problem thats caused by problems elsewhere.
also that rule creates a spawn wave!! For which there is another simpler solution.

id like to see defence spawn around the building at the end where sometimes attack rush in.
this would force a push in that area prevent spawn killers as it is now. where they go 1st floor and pick off new spawners.
Allow more time for build and attack on ev. but its useless as spawn timers are the way they are as the attackers will just pick off as usual.
the fact that the barrier build times are tight is causing players to go around it to find a solution which defeats the main purpose of restricting the build time in the first place. :rolleyes:

[Kendle]

I think the idea of “build the next barrier when the one before has been passed” is simple and sensible and can’t see why that can’t be adopted right away.

It would stop barriers 2+ being built before they needed to be (by XP whores who don’t care about helping the team) and would hopefully give defence time to build them. If there isn’t time on any particular map at any particular stage then it’s down to map design not the mechanics of barrier building.

But spawn waves and being able to /kill to get back and build a defence at the appropriate time would help a great deal as well.

[murka]

Somewhat related I’ll add a map i drew quickly to describe a painful problem and a possible solution.

This is a frequent situation and mostly causes the 3rd barrier problem. The defenders have no way of falling back after both cells get delivered unless they run right under attacker noses. A possible suggestion is to open up an alley that should relieve this pressure point.

[iwound]

^^ Echo is that you?

[QUOTE=murka;428929]

[/QUOTE]

That would significantly help. Also if defence spawned on that side where the alleyway is, otherwise they will still get cut off.
But then it may create a battle down the street rather than it just be about escort.

[iwound]

Have the build rules changed? Seems better. Cant remember if this used to reset if you failed.

[Loffy]

While on defence (and playing as engineer), I anticipate when the second d.c. is about to be delivered to the EV, and head up the street in advance (via the back alley on the left side). If executed well, it provides me with 15 sec of un-disturbed plier waving. But it is a risk, from another perspective: my team loses one defender on site. I mean, what it the d.c. is returned? However, it is these types of initiaitves that are needed, if Barrier 3 is ever going to see the light of day.