Logical dead end when trading up cards

(approvingGlow) #1

Every advanced player wants that one specific loadout for his merc, that he considers to be functionally the best.
The player invests loads of credits, playtime to finally craft a cobalt loadout for his merc, the result is not the good loadout that he wants.

So he has 2 choices now, either play with the functionally worse cobalt loadout for cosmetic reasons, or play with his preferred bronze loadout for effectiveness.

Obviously there needs to be some way of trading in cobalt loadouts for cobalt loadouts with different augments.

2 cobalts -> 1 guaranteed different cobalt or something like cobalt + 50.000 credits = the wanted cobalt or something else.

The point is, if someone goes through so much trouble to get a cobalt loadout, he can not unchangeably end up with something functionally useless.

(forlornStake) #2

I’d be happy if I was able to agree and disagree with your statement at once. What you propose would be on the one side really nice for the players. I’d personally be happy with it. But on the other side I don’t like your idea. I don’t like it because it would destroy the business model what means that the game developers would in the end have from none to only little income from this. I don’t think there will be any changes in the loadout card system.

(kibloy) #3

I think they’d make so much more money if there was a surefire way to get a specific silver/gold/cobalt loadout at a premium. Right now I can’t be bothered to spend money on cases or credits on trading up because the result is random and mostly useless. If they let me outright buy specific cobalts I’d easily drop 50 bucks for a nice one. But the way it works now I don’t see the point.

(sinKrin) #4

I’d take functionality over aesthetics any day. Probably the reason why I mostly use Bronze cards.

It would be nice to either sell off or trade down cards. Whether this fits their business model remains to be seen.

(approvingGlow) #5

Please elaborate how it would have an effect on income.

I doubt that people buy elite cases until they get EXACTLY that one cobalt loadout they wanted, sitting there with an extraordinary amount of useless cobalt loadouts.

>You have a 1/9th chance to get the exact loadout you want, or 11.1% if you want.
>Currently there are 14 mercs in the game, so your chances to get the loadout for your favourite merc is 1/14th or 7% if you want.
>Elite cases have a 5% chance of dropping a cobalt loadout, but silver and gold loadouts also cater to crafting cobalts. 4 silver for 1 gold, 6 gold for one cobalt, 24 silver for one cobalt. 1 silver card equals 1/24th cobalt and 1 gold equals 1/6th cobalt card.
Resulting in a 0.81/24th+0.151/6th+0.05*1 = 0.108 cobalt cards per elite case on average.
–>For the cobalt card of your favourite merc with your loadout you would have to buy reciproc(0.108)149=1167 elite cases which would cost as much as 4083 Euros or 4500 USD.

Now we both are aware, that an average user does not calculate the chances like that.
But consider that people DO have a rough understanding if something is anywhere near possible or extremely improbable.

My point is, noone buys the amount of elite cases that gets him the exact cobalt loadout he wants. They buy a hand full to support the game, hoping for the best and that’s it. Giving people a remote chance to get the cobalt cards they desire does not affect this negatively.

(Jostabeere) #6

Why do you get through trouble of getting a cobalt when you’re aware of having a totally RNG’d loadout?
I believe that will never happens because of pay-to-win. If you could get the best cobalts out of cobalts, you could cash into the game to get the best stuff, right? If you have mediocre skills and the best things, you will win, and if you pay cash for it, it’s P2W.

(approvingGlow) #7

Since the only difference between selectively bought bronze loadouts and cobalt loadouts is purely cosmetic anyways, i fail to see what you’re trying to say.
This ^ applies to both, the state we are in now and my suggested changed state as well, so you’re basically off-topic with the pay2win.

(Eddie) #8

That perfect cobalt shpuld remain ultra rare. just buy a bronze with the good augments and play with that.

(Jostabeere) #9

You’re right. Like every other card-game. Best cards are rare af.
I don’t even get it personally. I dislike cobalts (no offense Sniff-senpai :cold_sweat:) just because blue skin is nothing for me. Gold or bamboo are so much better, but people seem liking them just because they’re cobalt and are using them just for the sake of using cobalts.

(OmaGretel) #10

I also think it would only benefit their economical success, if they had a more fair business model. It would be nice in my opinion, if they sold “upgrade cards”. Those would let you turn for example a bronze card (that you already have to own) into a silver card with the the same loadout. Make them 10 bucks if you like, but that would at least not depend on RNG.
You can’t even call the current system a gamble, it’s a donation system.

(Eddie) #11

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to get every merc the perfect Blue cobalt loadout, However it feels satisfying just getting them by Luck

(ghostBase) #12

Maybe add a feature that lets you “reforge” cobalt cards at the same price of an elite case.
you throw in a cobalt card and a bronze card for the same merc and you get the cobalt with the desired loadout.
If a player hasn’t spent a penny on the game before trading up to his first cobalt i doubt he’ll spend much money afterwards, anyway, so i think this would be a decent way to save players from frustration while also sucking an amount of $$$ from them that they may find bearable.

(RuleofBooKz) #13

pretty sure they dont want the game to be considered a “gambling” system - and because u dont put in cash for potential bigger cash gains its not gambling.

ITs a game that has some RNG chance. IF it was gambling you would get into some real issues in certain countries because of anti gambling laws.

(Jostabeere) #14

[quote=“ghostBase;46599”]Maybe add a feature that lets you “reforge” cobalt cards at the same price of an elite case.
you throw in a cobalt card and a bronze card for the same merc and you get the cobalt with the desired loadout.
If a player hasn’t spent a penny on the game before trading up to his first cobalt i doubt he’ll spend much money afterwards, anyway, so i think this would be a decent way to save players from frustration while also sucking an amount of $$$ from them that they may find bearable.[/quote]

Sucking in money for players just for the sake of sucking in money is wrong.

(Fap Fap Master) #15

Competetive scene = Majority bronze card with occasional cards higher. They should seriously think of some way players are able to get their desired.loadout at higher qualities. Forgot to mention that some augments and don’t even work.

(approvingGlow) #16

If you have bought elite cases so far, maybe you are not entirely aware that a cobalt card is extremely rare as it is, any of them.
I’m lvl 15 and as f2p I could craft my way up to 3 golds so far, no chance of seeing a cobalt (except the 0.1% from cases maybe…).
So to get the materials to even craft 1 any cobalt, i would probably have to advance to lvl20+.

If you introduce a system that lets you craft 2 or 3 cobalts into 1 cobalt with a different loadout or anything similar, they would still be extremely rare for f2p players, while players who buy elite cases really do get a true acceleration in getting their favourite cobalt card.

As it is now, even the players who pay cash don’t get anything satisfying. That doesn’t exactly encourage anyone to spend money on the game and only an extremely small percentage of the players with cobalt cards are actually satisfied with what they grinded for for so long.

(Jostabeere) #17

[quote=“approvingGlow;46611”]
As it is now, even the players who pay cash don’t get anything satisfying. That doesn’t exactly encourage anyone to spend money on the game and only an extremely small percentage of the players with cobalt cards are actually satisfied with what they grinded for for so long.[/quote]

And just because of that everyone should be able to craft perfect Cobalts? Bling should be extremely rare. Best Bling should be like a unicorn.
People don’t think this through. “Craft perfect cobalts should be a thing!” And what have you to do in the game if you’re the one who collect stuff and you collected everything you want?

(approvingGlow) #18

First of all the loadouts are pretty undesirable, second of all is it nowhere said that this is a f2p player, not including lucky/bad case rng information, after all really not proving anything.

Players with cobalt loadouts do exist. That’s all this video tells us.

(approvingGlow) #19

[quote=“laudatoryLunch;46615”][quote=“approvingGlow;46611”]
As it is now, even the players who pay cash don’t get anything satisfying. That doesn’t exactly encourage anyone to spend money on the game and only an extremely small percentage of the players with cobalt cards are actually satisfied with what they grinded for for so long.[/quote]

And just because of that everyone should be able to craft perfect Cobalts? Bling should be extremely rare. Best Bling should be like a unicorn.
People don’t think this through. “Craft perfect cobalts should be a thing!” And what have you to do in the game if you’re the one who collect stuff and you collected everything you want?

[/quote]

I’m not saying that everyone should be able to craft perfect cobalts.

I’m saying throwing in crafting materials from thousand hours of playing and hard earned cash can not result irreversibly in a logical dead end with zero gain.

Even if it costs me materials from another 500 hours or double the amount of cash spent, provide some method that resembles a path to the object of desire except chances lower than winning the lottery jackpot, while also forcing to start over from scratch on each try.

(which can be instated in a way, that even enhances the overall company’s profit)

If one still needs absurdly much playtime and resources to get even one desired cobalt loadout, they can still hunt perfect cobalt loadouts for 14 different mercs after they have one. Plenty of room to work with.

(kibloy) #20

[quote=“approvingGlow;46564”]Please elaborate how it would have an effect on income.

I doubt that people buy elite cases until they get EXACTLY that one cobalt loadout they wanted, sitting there with an extraordinary amount of useless cobalt loadouts.

>You have a 1/9th chance to get the exact loadout you want, or 11.1% if you want.
>Currently there are 14 mercs in the game, so your chances to get the loadout for your favourite merc is 1/14th or 7% if you want.
>Elite cases have a 5% chance of dropping a cobalt loadout, but silver and gold loadouts also cater to crafting cobalts. 4 silver for 1 gold, 6 gold for one cobalt, 24 silver for one cobalt. 1 silver card equals 1/24th cobalt and 1 gold equals 1/6th cobalt card.
Resulting in a 0.81/24th+0.151/6th+0.05*1 = 0.108 cobalt cards per elite case on average.
–>For the cobalt card of your favourite merc with your loadout you would have to buy reciproc(0.108)149=1167 elite cases which would cost as much as 4083 Euros or 4500 USD.

Now we both are aware, that an average user does not calculate the chances like that.
But consider that people DO have a rough understanding if something is anywhere near possible or extremely improbable.

My point is, noone buys the amount of elite cases that gets him the exact cobalt loadout he wants. They buy a hand full to support the game, hoping for the best and that’s it. Giving people a remote chance to get the cobalt cards they desire does not affect this negatively.[/quote]
Many people are well aware of that and buy maybe 1 or 2 cases and then stop after the initial disappointment of getting a silver card for a merc they don’t even have. They would make much more money by making the cases more desirable. Either by making the cards tradable/sellable or letting players disassemble them for x credits.
In-game purchases should not rely on players feeling generous towards the developer…

Maybe I’m not the target audience but many players I’ve talked to agree that they’d happily buy cosmetics if they weren’t random and affected your in-game performance the way they do now.

Then again I’m not their publisher and they’ve probably thought this all through ¯_(ツ)_/¯