List of UNFUN things from a fairly new player

(luxuriousTent) #21

You’ll stop thinking Martyrdom is imbalanced when you get good at the game. Honestly I’m not sure what else to tell you. I play on Level 10 Minimum servers and I never see Martyrdom get anybody. Heck, most people don’t even play Nader because Fragger is widely considered a step up and a direct counter in terms of gameplay. No wondering if the grenades are going to detonate or not, a cooked grenade is a guaranteed kill for most people. Sit behind a corner, toss a grenade onto a Nader and there’s nothing she can do. Or, engage her from a distance with your superior primary weapon. Once you start playing in high-skill lobbies, or even competitive play, your perspective of what is OP and what isn’t will change entirely.

In regards to Phantom, no one is really commenting on it because it’s so widely agreed that Phantom is too strong in his current form that any discussion about it would be redundant.

(Yes) #22

[left][quote=“moonlitAbility;46383”][quote=“Yak;46377”][quote=“moonlitAbility;46373”][quote=“Yak;46369”]What justifies any merc having their skills? It’s just part of her character design, and a really useless one past a certain skill threshold. It’s also extremely easy to dodge, even if you’re standing on her face as she goes down. A simple long jump is enough for every merc to get clear.[/quote]

I guess because every other merc design falls into some combination of speed/hp/gun firepower, with the only wildcard being the special ability. however, the ONLY merc that fucks with the equation is nader, who has a downed skill. the question i ask is, why does she need/deserve this when no other merc does? if she does not have this skill, is she weaker than another merc? is she unusable? no, not by a long shot. so why?
[/quote]

It’s meant to be a deterrent, to get you to think before you act, similar to Proxy mines. At higher levels of play, the mines rarely kill, but they cause people to stop and pay attention to their surroundings, to make you not rush around the corner but be ready for anything, including retreat.[/quote]

I mean… i understand what it does. it still, to me, does not justify the fact that a nader can kill you when they are dead and no other merc can. if the nader were weaker, or had a shittier weapon or something.

i guess the question i should ask here is… if the nader did not have martyrdom, would they be weak / not have a role / niche?[/quote]
It doesn’t matter because Nader isn’t OP with it. Besides that, any skill that requires you to be dead is automatically much worse than any other skill because a living teammate is much better than a dead one.

The whole point of martyrdom is to teach people to be constantly alert and that’s also the role that Phantom fills. I’m so sick of people crying about Phantom having the ability to kill in one hit. The mercs he kills in one hit are much faster than him and could outrun him even with their primary out (maybe not Vassili).

Even that considered, the mercs that he one hits already got killed by so many things before, with the exception of Vassili.
Aura, Sparks, Proxy and Kira all get killed by one nade direct hit, which can be done at range.
Aura and Sparks get killed in one shot by the Hollunds 880 and any melee heavy attack.
Aura, Sparks, Proxy and Kira get killed in one shot by Remburgh 7, Ahnuhld-12 to the head , either burst weapon to the head and any sniper shot to the head.
Aura, Sparks, Proxy, Kira and Vassili all get killed by one sticky bomb.
All mercs (maybe except Rhino) get killed by one proximity mine.
All mercs get killed by one of Arty’s artillery strikes.
All mercs get killed instantly by Kira’s beam, which can be moved.
Aura, Sparks, Proxy, Kira and Vassili (maybe even more) can be killed in one headshot from Sparks’ revive gun.
All mercs get killed by one of Fragger’s frags.
All mercs get killed by martyrdom.
All mercs get killed quicker by Rhino’s minigun than from any of the other things mentioned.
All mercs get killed by Skyhammer’s airstrike, which can also disable the EV by itself.

Phantom being able to kill certain mercs is not the issue, unless you have a problem with everything listed above. The biggest difference with those abilities is that Phantom requires the player to be right next to him. All of those I listed do not require the player using them to be right next to them (with the exception of martyrdom).
[/left]

(Derpfestor) #23

WELCOME TO DIRTY BOMB - WHERE EVERYTHING IS DIRTY

(debonairRogue) #24

it took me a while to resist the urge, but at this point I never knife downed naders and knife others. nader is REALLY easy to differentiate from the other mercs. Each merc is unique enough for that
and I just started playing this game a few days ago. If I can do it you can two

plus stealth is a really useful tool. a skilled person infiltrating can be the difference between a win and a lose. the problem is he’s not invisible enough, but hes too invinible. because he’s easy to spot both visualy and through hearing, and because he has a katana that can ohk and has 120 health AND his reactive armour makes him invincible , people just tank with him and end up wiping out everyone with the katana

(capriciousParsely) #25

Stealth works: See TF2. Phantom just need a little tweak to his shield.

Martyrdom? Seriously? This is the only game where a specific class has that ability that I know of. Why are you running in to melee a downed Nader? How about you learn to play instead?

(Jojack) #26

It’s people like the OP that lump non problems (martyrdom) with real problems (Phantom) that make people think the Phantom rage is the same as the Nader, Rhino, Sparks rage. It’s not.

Martyrdom is the worst skill in the game not because it’s OP, but because it’s fricken useless. I might actually play Nader once in awhile if she got a skill that would actually benefit me to replace Martyrdom.

(Mescman) #27

It’s your own fault if you get killed by martyrdom. It only works against people who made bad choices or didn’t pay attention. The fact that it happens after she’s been killed is pretty irrelevant.

(incredibleHoneydew) #28

For me this game is all about: keeping on thinking.
I train myself to knife gibbed people: then we got Nader to stop that automatism.
I train myself to stay back as Vasillis or Sparks: then we got Ghost who will stab you in the back with no back-up to help you out.
Or how about rushing towards the target just to get shot up by Bushwakkers turret or Proxy’s mines?
I wonder what they will come up next.

(bontsa) #29

[quote=“moonlitAbility;46379”]
Thematically… a nader has a grenade launcher. grenade launcher grenades are different than normal grenades… if anything, it makes more thematic sense for the fragger to have this ability. similarly, if im fletcher, and im dying on the ground, i probably have enough strength to press a button as im dying… if we’re rewarding downed skills, why does artillery cancel when you are downed?

-snip-

so again, given all that, if we’re gonna just start handing out downed skills, why cant we give fletcher the ability to detonate his bombs while hes writhing in pain?[/quote]

Since people have ran you through the effectiveness, rather lack of it, of Martyr (and it’s number 3 most talked merc related discussion I suppose) I’ll just say in also my opinion it’s usability is just way too narrow-gap.

Reason I think Nader has it, is probably dev’s idea to make her look more viable Assault class option (not really working that well though). When looked into more, all other Assault classes are much more tanky, more firepower orientated, but have less speed which however is not that much of an issue. All of them attributes that are more “fit” to an assault. Where as Nader falls back of Rhino, upcoming Thunder and all-around-outshining Fragger in both ability to withstand and to dish out damage. She mains a skill used for area denial rather than pure hurt, even if direct hit nades pack a punch. Assault’s job towards objective is supposed to keep enemies at bay or making them run off it by introducing them to some major projectile- related trauma. All other assaults feel at the moment doing this better than Nader (Rhino is even more situational however). Her area denying is great though, and some people like me simply love grenade using characters, so she is still played, but mostly in only public gameplay.

Why Fletcher shouldn’t have the same you ponder? He is already contributing huge a lot of deal to the objective, after all he’s an engineer. Now however that you did bring up Bushwhacker’s turret and Proxy’s mines being still active even after their summoner is downed and lying in agony, I got interested of the idea of being able to detonate stickies while downed. How would this play out I wonder? One nasty situation popping into my mind is when you 1v1 against enemy Fletcher, he manages to throw sticky on your precious torso, and your only way of getting out of this is downing him so he cannot detonate it in time. If he could detonate it still, there would be absolutely no turning back if this sticky situation arises. I haven’t played Fletchy a lot, so I can’t know how easy it is to stick them to enemies, should this kind of a feat be awarded for player running with our beloved Nigerian engineer?

TL;DR- Nader isn’t exactly weak, but she is weaker than the other mercenaries rocking the same role on the battlefield. By the logic Fletcher would be able to detonate stickies while downed, it’d be interesting idea, but does he necessarily need it and what kind of gameplay would that induce?

(frolicsomeCrane) #30

I own Fletcher.

He should NOT be able to detonate his sticky bombs after he gets down. The main reason they are sticky bombs is that you actually need to plan your sticky bombs and your deaths, Fletcher is a mastermind, not a happy go lucky plebeian like Proxy and Nader that hope someone will just be dumb enough to stumble upon their trap.

I also believe Fletcher is not meant to use his stickies as traps. Sure you can use them sometimes, but people notice them EASILY, they aren’t exactly concealed against that white wall now, are they?

I seriously believe that his sticky bombs are meant to be thrown on opponents in the middle of fights while you’re jumping off walls and not letting them shoot you, you will be rolling in kills when you manage to master the art of sticky throwing on Auras.

aka, Fletcher is a god among awful wannabe explosive specialists that just hope someone is dumber than them :3c

(Frogteam) #31

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;46489”]
He should NOT be able to detonate his sticky bombs after he gets down. The main reason they are sticky bombs is that you actually need to plan your sticky bombs and your deaths, Fletcher is a mastermind, not a happy go lucky plebeian like Proxy and Nader that hope someone will just be dumb enough to stumble upon their trap.[/quote]

Heck if I’m guarding c4 we planted and I’m low on health, I’ll hide sticky bombs near the c4 and then suicide out when the respawn timer reaches ~1 so that I’ll for sure be able to detonate them if someone starts defusing, if you die with 5+ seconds on the timer you probably won’t be able to detonate before they finish defusing, Fletcher is all about planning.

(ghostBase) #32

Just to answer your question on why she’s the only one to have a downed skill; She’s not the only one. There is a merc called ‘Phoenix’ who can revive himself from a downed state, coming to the game when he’s been reworked and rebalanced.

(RuleofBooKz) #33

its annoying when u get caught up fighting nader in a small enclosed space and when you kill them they use martyrdom and take u with them.

But what is more important than mere annoyance is the experience and awareness that the nader actually played well in choosing that location to fight you in. They prob did it intentionally. Your death is a reward for their use of using good judgement and skill in situational awareness - ie. why were u fighting nader in that enclosed space? Why not try to flee? Or mitigate the future event looming at naders death?

So in the end martyrdom is fine and if u keep getting caught up in enclosed spaces (or killed by it in general) then u need to improve your gameplay

(DucklingJuggler) #34

While I don’t really think martyrdom needs to be in this game, it’s not a big problem once you get better at the game. I rarely get killed by it, and if I do it’s my own fault.

(debonairRogue) #35

[quote=“incredibleHoneydew;46476”]For me this game is all about: keeping on thinking.
I train myself to knife gibbed people: then we got Nader to stop that automatism.
I train myself to stay back as Vasillis or Sparks: then we got Ghost who will stab you in the back with no back-up to help you out.
Or how about rushing towards the target just to get shot up by Bushwakkers turret or Proxy’s mines?
I wonder what they will come up next.[/quote]
that’s the point
for whatever tactic or strategy or playstyle someone has, there’s a counter to it

(umberInlet) #36

Just gonna say, Nader SUUUUUCKS outdoors, and her Martydom is easy to avoid indoors as well if you’re not in a corner. She’s either lives life as a shut-in or not live at all. She’s also pretty weak up close as well, and you can still long jump away from her body before she commits suicide.

(wittyChicken) #37

[quote=“moonlitAbility;46361”]

this doesnt justify to me that she is the only merc that gets any sort of downed skill?[/quote]

Phoenix also has a “downed skill”. He is a medic that can revive himself. He is not released yet though.

(noupperlobeman) #38

Literally the two biggest things that are remedied by experience.

(XavienX) #39

This game isn’t just killing spree skills, it’s about strat and paying attention as well as teamwork.

(Derpfestor) #40

A lot of people seem to forget that and just try and rambo their way through like it’s CoD.