LIMIT THE MERC SPAM!!?

(Sithas) #41

I only want a cap on vassili, because when you normally have more than 3 of the same mercs in your team you still can win, but god help you if you have more than 2 vassili, you need either have the most retarted team as enemy, or you need the blessing of all the gods for having a chance to win.

(DMaster2) #42

That’s bs. It all depend on how those Vassili’s plays. If a player is bad (or inexperienced) he is bad with any merc he pick.
An example, i entered a comp match (back when there was missions for it) as Vassili. A dude in my team said “we don’t need vassili, he is useless”. Well i ended up with the highest score in the match and won that match.

(Lumi) #43

@DMaster2

It’s more complex than that. A bad Vassili is essentially someone taking a server spot without doing much, he doesn’t get many kills, nor does he do any distractions, nor heals, nor objectives, nor does he soak a lot of bullets. At best he will throw his sensor and give you some insight on where enemies are. Now add more Vassili’s of the same kind and you have a full team suffering the full respawn penalty and will not get any benefits for each crappy Vassili. Even if they’re just kicked you’ll get the advantage of faster respawns.

Now put those bad players in other mercs and they’ll go more into the firefight. They might still suck, but they’ll provide distraction and will soack up bullets while you can kill your enemies. Better still, if they’re medics, engineers or fire support you might get bullets out of it or a revive/healthpack.

Finally, many bad Vassili’s are newcomers and the problem with that is that their constant scoped “first impression” of the game doesn’t show them the fast paced gameplay and they just address the game as any other regular sniper in a regular shooter and learn nothing from the map nor the movement and fast abilities. So besides imbalancing teams, newcomer Vassilies are also delaying their learning curve by delaying their need to move around lots and discover the map and by delaying their use and learning of mercs that are actually helpful to the team.

In the end I believe that the issue here is more of a level locking Vassili before one can buy him, than an issue of having them stacked.

(Sithas) #44

That’s bs. It all depend on how those Vassili’s plays. If a player is bad (or inexperienced) he is bad with any merc he pick.
An example, i entered a comp match (back when there was missions for it) as Vassili. A dude in my team said “we don’t need vassili, he is useless”. Well i ended up with the highest score in the match and won that match.[/quote]

I dont find vassili useless, each merc has its own strenght and a good vassili can really help the team, i’m talking about more then 2 vassili, even when you have 3 decent vassili players, vassilli players tend to stay far behind, have you ever seen a vassili repair a obj? i didnt. did you ever see a vassili carry the obj? i didnt. (i know that some good vassali players on dirty bomb go for obj but they are very rare) Just like lumi says they can’t heal, give ammo or form decent distractions. They are great at giving cover fire, but thats all and 2 vassali are enough to give cover fire any more then that and it will become a hindrance to the team.

(Dirmagnos) #45

Again, this is not a DM, ideally players should chose mercs that would compliment team in general. Unfortunately this is rarely the case and devs do nothing to motivate players to do things differently.

Yeah… it worked… however, in ET you didn’t have to choose 3 classes you bring into the game.

Yes, we had 5, but you can play only one at any given time anyway and generally having selection of 3 ought to be sufficient(since general selection of professions remains pretty much the same). Plus, if medic slot(s) and soldier with panza slot(s) are filled, all that was left were engineer, field op and cover op. On that part DB system is far more flexible.
I have far greater issues with completely moronic new system, where players cant even see on what team they are(as either attackers or defenders) prior to game start. Rather than with number of merc slots.

Also, a food for thought.
From where do people come to competitive ?
I doubt that any1 would argue that situation with competitive is far from optimal. Supposedly ppl lack skill, resolve(eg quitters) and theres not enough ppl in general.
At the same time same people who complain about all those things, say that balancing pubs is unneeded, its “just casual” gameplay.
From where do people come to competitive ?
From pubs, majority of them. And with all those issues present, they develop certain approach to the game… than they later carry over into competitive(if they get there)… resulting in all those issues with competitive.
So, all those morons who say that pub games are irrelevant, from balance standpoint… think again. Quoting Frenchman “Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect”

(Mr.Dubstab) #46

Team of 8.
Rotation: Nader, Vassili and Skyhammer.
EVERYONE has the same mercs in their squad. (Of course: it’s unlikely, but still possible.)
Then 2 use Nader. 2 use Vassili and 2 use Skyhammer. In total you have 6 spots filled.
The other 2 are not able to play, since they have all “filled” classes.

It seems unreasonable to kick them, just because they don’t have many mercs yet? So what can you do?

Just stick with the current system, so everybody is satisfied. If you don’t want it, stick to competitive. You barely see double classes there.

(DMaster2) #47

Meh level locking should go for every merc or nothing. I don’t think that’s the problem, if people want to snipe they will snipe and there is nothing that you can do that will change that. Even changing Vassili’s price to 50k won’t change that fact. Since mercs needs to be purchased i don’t think limiting their use is a smart move.

(Eox) #48

It’s annoying to be swarmed with Rhinos or getting five useless Vassilis in your team, but pubs gotta be pubs : people should still be free to pick what they want to play with. We can’t remove that to pubplay.

(Aazhyd) #49

Imagine you come late into a game and can’t play your 2 favorites mercs and are forced to play the one you only had in your squad because of a mission.

Now imagine this happens to you frequently. BAD BAD, VERY BAD.

(Sinee) #50

None of the above for me, because IMO, the entire “try before you buy” system needs to be overhauled and changed to something better for newbs and fair for the rest of us.

I see Devs and whoever else constantly waving a “we’re totally seriously really actually trying to balance, honest!” flag for this game, but the massive influx of a single merc always throws off match balance. It’s pretty black and white.

I don’t think anyone enjoys this silly system. There’s always someone that’s going to dread when Nader’s free, when Bushwhacker is free, Vassili or pretty much every single merc that goes up on rotation. It’s a pain in the ass.

Personally, I think merc rentals with credits would be fine. Take a cue from Warface and rent out— in the end it’ll be more practical to buy permanently if it’s a merc someone likes.

(Lumi) #51

[quote=“Aazhyd;124044”]Imagine you come late into a game and can’t play your 2 favorites mercs and are forced to play the one you only had in your squad because of a mission.

Now imagine this happens to you frequently. BAD BAD, VERY BAD.
[/quote]

Obviously, in merc limited servers the merc trio would be abolished. It would have to be a one choice thing. You chose your merc and stick with it to the end, maybe you get a chance to switch between rounds in Stopwatch, but that’s it.

(Aazhyd) #52

[quote=“Lumi;124070”][quote=“Aazhyd;124044”]Imagine you come late into a game and can’t play your 2 favorites mercs and are forced to play the one you only had in your squad because of a mission.

Now imagine this happens to you frequently. BAD BAD, VERY BAD.
[/quote]

Obviously, in merc limited servers the merc trio would be abolished. It would have to be a one choice thing. You chose your merc and stick with it to the end, maybe you get a chance to switch between rounds in Stopwatch, but that’s it.[/quote]

That’s even worse. Not being able to adjust to what’s happening on the battlefield is horrible.

(Dirmagnos) #53

Or they could go with a middle ground.
Whole part about K/D, during game, is shown on a level of a team. Same goes for kills.
So it doesnt show individual kd, but sum on all kills and deaths per team. In the same way, when opposite player is killed, it merely shows who is killed, but not who killed him.
This way keeping tabs on who killed who when and how many times would become that much harder.
Losers will continue to meticulously count kills, obviously. But generally, with personal stats only shown after the game, it could improve teamplay, since its one thing to score for urself(hey look, i got 20 inch long virtual pen…erm…i got 20 frags) and its a bit another when its counts only on a team -based scale.

Btw, in terms of limitation id go with, again, ET system. Where amount of particular class is based on amount of players in the team.
So basically, all classes are assigned into categories: assault, support, medic, tech and cover op. Various categories could have various limits:
Medics, since it is pretty much less favorite class in the game, could have no limit.
Support, 1 over 2, eg 1 support player per each 2 players in the team.
Tech limit could be 1 over 3, since even 2 of those per team is usually enough.
Assault could be either 1 over 2. Its the most generic class.
And cover, could be 1 over 4, no less, so for every 3 players, 4th can be cover(so in 6vs6 game there can only be 1 recon on the team). Vassily, Redeye or Phantom. Those guys are generally the least useful from the stantpoint of game main objective. So team may use 1, or even 2, but theres most definitely no friggin need for 4 Vassilys, while there is just 1 Aura or Proxy on the team.

(Lumi) #54

[quote=“Aazhyd;124083”][quote=“Lumi;124070”][quote=“Aazhyd;124044”]Imagine you come late into a game and can’t play your 2 favorites mercs and are forced to play the one you only had in your squad because of a mission.

Now imagine this happens to you frequently. BAD BAD, VERY BAD.
[/quote]

Obviously, in merc limited servers the merc trio would be abolished. It would have to be a one choice thing. You chose your merc and stick with it to the end, maybe you get a chance to switch between rounds in Stopwatch, but that’s it.[/quote]

That’s even worse. Not being able to adjust to what’s happening on the battlefield is horrible.
[/quote]

It’s a LoL type of mechanic, chose a proper team and stick with it. Yeah I know many people don’t like to “think”, but this is why those servers shouldn’t be the norm but an additional “mode” if you prefer. Also, when joining mid game you get both your team and the opponents team composition, allowing for a better informed choice.

(3N1GM4) #55

99% of the time when merc spam happens its due to the free rotation. Having a few staggered rotations would help prevent this. Where 25% of the players are on “rotation A” and 25% are on “rotation B” and so forth to “rotation D”.

(Silo) #56

I have to admit that Nade spam week was frustrating for me too and I understand that nobody wants to have 3+ Vassilis on their team,
but on the other hand, the most fun and hilarious games come from having all of the same mercs.
Imagine everyone in your team being Phantom. You all cloak and stand in line as an invisible wall.
The enemy tries to run past you guys, but cant.
“What´s happening?”
“Why can´t I go past this corridor?”
“And what´s that humming sound?”

As people before have said, free rotation is about trying out the new mercs.
I would hate it if I try to join a server, want to play my favorite merc, but can´t because
someone else already picked him.