Level/Rank locked

(.FROST.) #1

I know, that there is allready a thread concerning my issue, but I can’t find him.

My question is; why has the Rank/Level got to be locked? I’ve seen this in other games too, but I never got it. In AvP 3 its even a odd number(43), and in Americas Army you can only reach 100, but that was almost impossible to achieve, due to the playtime it would’ve taken. But in the end, it was also locked. And I never played it, but I think WoW is also locked, even though its also quite tough to achieve the highest rank there.

Men is a collector by nature and can find joy in every kind of growth(yeah, yeah, I know, ha ha(bored laughter, as the elcor would say)). Even if its just a tiny number. I think the intention from SD, by locking rank and level, is to animate you to try/create a new char, and I’m absolutely willing to do so, but I want at least one main char. I think its a good idea to lock the abilities, since otherwise every char would become basically the same, besides from the generall appearence.

But i need a growing Number in some way. Or points. Like for example; 10XP=first point, additional 15XP=second point and further 25XP=third point. With every achieved point you’d need more XP to reach the next one, but the point number would be infinite.

I’m sure every player would go for that. Screw additional abilities, but give us a rising number, something.

(InfiniteStates) #2

I’m with you dude - although with the DLC increasing the level cap it sort of makes sense. But it’s still unrewarding between maxing out and DLC arriving.

The other topic is here, with some great contributions by Coolaguy.

(zenstar) #3

They’re raising the caps in DLC.
Also: since you’re awarded abilities for each level and they want you to decide what abilities you take for your character they can’t let you just keep going and buy everything out.
Besides: levels don’t really matter. They’re there to help you learn the class at the begining. When you hit 20 the game begins properly.
If you look at the number of shooters with levels compared to the number of shooters without levels I think you’ll find being capped at level 1 is normal.

(InfiniteStates) #4

That doesn’t change the fact that it feels unrewarding to some people.

(zenstar) #5

Fair enough. I never saw the levels as rewards personally. I always saw them as “training wheels” seperating people learning from the full game which starts at 20.

But I do see your point. Perhaps they could have some seperate badge system for people who need to play towards some reward?

(Zekariah) #6

I gotta say, chasing JUST a number seems really pointless. I’m all for levelling up, especially Halo: Reach style, but not for just a number. At least in Reach you have new Armor Permutations to look forward to.

It’s like prestiging in COD. I had a go of it once and got over starting again pretty much straight away. And after prestiging once you unlocked prestige mode and all you had to look forward to after that were a couple of Playercard backgrounds.

No, I think levelling up requires a little carrot dangling. Appearance customizations, further abilities or other interesting unlockables are the only reason why I would want to level up or Prestige, no matter how long it takes to reach those levels.

Perhaps SD should have made it a bit harder to reach lvl 20, but then, who knows how much game time may be required to reach lvl 24 when the DLC comes.

(.FROST.) #7

I’ve stated that twice in my initial post. I don’t want further abilities, just a tiny small, but rising, number somewhere in my stats. nothing too fancy.

(zenstar) #8

Except we know that there are more abilities coming with more levels in the DLC.
Besides: currently you can get 200 levels. Each character (of which you can have 10) can get to level 20.
Once the dlc is released you’ll have 240 levels. By the time you get that there’ll be another DLC.

EDIT: And I’ve already agreed with your “point system” by stating that maybe there should be some unrelated badge system for people who have to be rewarded for playing a game.

(InfiniteStates) #9

That’s what I said during the beta, but I was told ranking was accelerated for the beta. But as far as I can tell, it’s just a tiny bit slower in the last couple of levels.

[QUOTE=zenstar;335398]Besides: currently you can get 200 levels. Each character (of which you can have 10) can get to level 20.
Once the dlc is released you’ll have 240 levels. By the time you get that there’ll be another DLC.[/QUOTE]
Levelling 10 characters to 20 isn’t quite the same as 1 character to 200 though. And yesterday I deleted 3 level 20 characters to leave me just one, which I then re-spec’d. I don’t like having multiple characters as you can’t choose between them in any convenient way.

(zenstar) #10

[QUOTE=InfiniteStates;335525]That’s what I said during the beta, but I was told ranking was accelerated for the beta. But as far as I can tell, it’s just a tiny bit slower in the last couple of levels.

Levelling 10 characters to 20 isn’t quite the same as 1 character to 200 though. And yesterday I deleted 3 level 20 characters to leave me just one, which I then re-spec’d. I don’t like having multiple characters as you can’t choose between them in any convenient way.[/QUOTE]

Sign up to the stats page. It tracks XP doesn’t it (I’m not 100% sure because I’m on PC and we’re still waiting :frowning: )?
Instead of levels track your horde of XP gained. Or of the number of wins you’ve accrued.
If playing the game is not rewarding enough in and of itself then the stats page is probably your best bet.
The whole infinite levels thing seems silly to me. The only reason I can see for it is so people can brag that they’re 100 levels higher than someone else.
I understand it makes you feel like you’re being rewarded but I think you should try get your kicks from something different. I don’t think they ever intended the levels to be rewards for playtime.

(.FROST.) #11

[QUOTE=zenstar;335568]The whole infinite levels thing seems silly to me. The only reason I can see for it is so people can brag that they’re 100 levels higher than someone else.
I understand it makes you feel like you’re being rewarded but I think you should try get your kicks from something different. I don’t think they ever intended the levels to be rewards for playtime.[/QUOTE]

At first, I don’t quote you to hint that there is anything “wrong” with your opinion.

Second, as I previously stated; it should be a small but visible Number, stripes, badges or points.
And for those who are not keen of knowing ones level or those of others can turn it off or just ignore it.
I think it doesn’t hurt anyone, but it would be nice for people like me wich would appreciate it very much. And again, this wouldn’t leadto, or give you any advantages of any kind. Its just like watching a flower grow, I don’t know. I’m not the flower kind, but you know what I mean.

And theres a reason for all the real-world-badges and awards. Simple guys like me needs them.

(zenstar) #12

[QUOTE=.FROST.;335585]At first, I don’t quote you to hint that there is anything “wrong” with your opinion.

Second, as I previously stated; it should be a small but visible Number, stripes, badges or points.
And for those who are not keen of knowing ones level or those of others can turn it off or just ignore it.
I think it doesn’t hurt anyone, but it would be nice for people like me wich would appreciate it very much. And again, this wouldn’t leadto, or give you any advantages of any kind. Its just like watching a flower grow, I don’t know. I’m not the flower kind, but you know what I mean.

And theres a reason for all the real-world-badges and awards. Simple guys like me needs them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I often quote just to say “following this part of the thread” :slight_smile:
What’s wrong with XP gain on the stats page?
Picture every million as a new level (or whatever amount is apropriate). Do you need something ingame?

And the “If you don’t want to see it you can turn it off” argument doesn’t really work because those stats are used by others to belittle them ingame (“What’s this level 16 noob doing here?” etc…).
To prevent this they’d have to be private number that only you can see. In which case I refer you back to the stats page :slight_smile:

(themaul) #13

Since multiple characters are allowed in Brink, a level 16 could be a new character which an experienced player is working on. Although I doubt much belittling is going to be done given the current state of ingame chat.

I personally would like something like a badge system, since there really isn’t anything else to work on after you’ve hit level 20 (since I don’t like playing multiple characters).

(zenstar) #14

[QUOTE=themaul;335988]Since multiple characters are allowed in Brink, a level 16 could be a new character which an experienced player is working on. Although I doubt much belittling is going to be done given the current state of ingame chat.

I personally would like something like a badge system, since there really isn’t anything else to work on after you’ve hit level 20 (since I don’t like playing multiple characters).[/QUOTE]

The level 16 still doesn’t have all the abilities (or access to all the ranks) of a level 20 and has the ability to join higher ranked games by selecting “my rank or higher”. It just allows people to have the choice if they want to exercise it. Being the level 1 new character in a game of all 20s isn’t much fun even if you are experienced.

And some people will use any excuse to belittle another player. Why give them more options for it? I’ve seen plenty of text arguments ingame. You’d be surprised how far a douchebag will go to be a douchebag :frowning: Standing still in the spawn complaining that other people aren’t pulling their weight? The hypocrisy obviously lost on him / her.

I’m fine with the badge system but, working with what we have at the moment, noone has said what’s wrong with the using the stat page as your “infinite leveling” tracking via XP gain.

(InfiniteStates) #15

Zenstar, I get what you’re saying (not just in this quote, but this entire thread) and it’s true - there are workarounds. But my point is, this game fails to cater to the base need of many (console) gamers, whether it’s a placebo effect or not, and we shouldn’t have to implement workarounds. And indeed many won’t bother, they will just move on. See my other thread on this issue (“Endless Leveling”), and in particular, Coolaguy’s posts.

I love this game, and want to see the community grow, but as you pointed out - a lot of players will “get their kicks from something different”. Namely - another game. Which is a shame and it sets up a negative feedback loop, if it hasn’t already.

(zenstar) #16

[QUOTE=InfiniteStates;336051]Zenstar, I get what you’re saying (not just in this quote, but this entire thread) and it’s true - there are workarounds. But my point is, this game fails to cater to the base need of many (console) gamers, whether it’s a placebo effect or not, and we shouldn’t have to implement workarounds. And indeed many won’t bother, they will just move on. See my other thread on this issue (“Endless Leveling”), and in particular, Coolaguy’s posts.

I love this game, and want to see the community grow, but as you pointed out - a lot of players will “get their kicks from something different”. Namely - another game. Which is a shame and it sets up a negative feedback loop, if it hasn’t already.[/QUOTE]

I’ve read Coolaguy’s post and don’t fully agree with it. There are some assumptions going on that don’t fit 100%, but that’s neither here nor there.
I understand wanting some sort of badge system and I’m not against it exactly (especially if it’s private and you can’t see other people’s rankings). I’d just rather they didn’t waste dev time on it.

EDIT: btw I disagree about being able to see everyone else’s levels. Why? The only reason for that is bragging rights. It no longer becomes a personal fulfilment issue and if that’s the case then I’m against it.

(InfiniteStates) #17

[QUOTE=zenstar;336061]I’ve read Coolaguy’s post and don’t fully agree with it. There are some assumptions going on that don’t fit 100%, but that’s neither here nor there.
I understand wanting some sort of badge system and I’m not against it exactly (especially if it’s private and you can’t see other people’s rankings). I’d just rather they didn’t waste dev time on it.[/QUOTE]
Well it’s a subjective thing, not a universal fact, so it doesn’t apply to everyone. But to some it does, for those it does it’s a good explanation as to why.
In terms of dev effort, I would say implementing a badge system is a lot more effort (especially as it requires art assets), than simply removing the level cap as I suggested.

But then there is the problem of DLC drip-feeding cap increases which I hadn’t foreseen at the time of creating that thread…

EDIT (lol)

For me, personally, it’s not about bragging, although undoubtably for others it would be used to that purpose. For me, it’s more about seeing the experience of your teammates and the opposition. I realise there isn’t always a 1:1 correlation between level and skill, when level is simply a function of time played, but it’s a better indicator than nothing.

(zenstar) #18

Not sure about console players but on PC you can view the player’s Steam profile (iirc) and see the number of hours they’ve played there. It’s clunky to scan an entire team but it is possible.
I understand you may not use it for bragging rights but other people will. Just look at how other games with leveling systems already brag about their level.
If they implement a lobby system showing levels becomes a real pain.
Ever seen a lobby where the top level character chooses a team? Everyone tries to move over to that team. It no longer becomes about enjoying the game it becomes about getting onto the stronger team / trying to team stack to win.
There is no real reason to publically display levels. If you want to make sure of your teammates’ abilities then organise a team of friends. If you want to learn which player is the most experienced then learn it through gameplay (how many times he’s killed you with amazing sliding grenade shooting).

(InfiniteStates) #19

No we don’t have that feature on consoles, and I would hope any external lobby system that got implemented would simply allow the ability for friends to form a group before finding a match. But that is a different issue that I don’t want to de-rail this thread with :slight_smile:

We clearly need to agree to disagree. This is obviously not an issue for you and many others and that’s cool. But then there are others for whom it is. I realise there are many things I can do to work around it - I’ve been doing that with games for years, before trophies came along as somewhat removed the need to.

But that doesn’t change the fact that people like me that don’t or won’t workaround the problem will simply move on. And that is a shame for this great game, the community and Splash Damage.

(zenstar) #20

[QUOTE=InfiniteStates;336074]No we don’t have that feature on consoles, and I would hope any external lobby system that got implemented would simply allow the ability for friends to form a group before finding a match. But that is a different issue that I don’t want to de-rail this thread with :slight_smile:

We clearly need to agree to disagree. This is obviously not an issue for you and many others and that’s cool. But then there are others for whom it is. I realise there are many things I can do to work around it - I’ve been doing that with games for years, before trophies came along as somewhat removed the need to.

But that doesn’t change the fact that people like me that don’t or won’t workaround the problem will simply move on. And that is a shame for this great game, the community and Splash Damage.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Like I say, I partially agree with you on some of your points even though it isn’t something I’m interested in.

I just don’t like the public viewability side of things. MNC did that with a star rating that was meant to gauge your skill level and it was horrible. I think they eventually made it privately viewable only.

But yeah. maybe a badge system in the future would add value for some people.