lethality of weapons

[tokamak]

For me the current “creep vs forward sprint speed vs strafe speed” triangle means that when I’m in trouble I’d rather opt to turn and flee exposing my behind rather than strafe away to protect my ass.

Yeah that’s a huge factor. And not necessarily a bad thing if escaping wouldn’t fail so miserably all the time.

[Ashog]

Sadly not, and I need to spend more time looking at it, with a bigger sample and comparing it between maps. Right now, with no baseline to compare it to, it is just an interesting stat, even if it does strike me as higher than I’d expect.

btw can we please have the real numbers for ROF of some classes/weapons? A few would be enuff to discuss.

[Valdez]

After further testing and looking at darkangels screenshots. Maybe the problem has nothing to do with the bloom, the bloom in this currently seems more accurate than rtcw or et ever was. Last night I noticed there is a damage drop off if fired from a long distance. basically cuts the dmg in half, if you were doing 36 dmg hs now your doing 18 dmg hs at a distance. This however is at a long distance where someone would basically want or need to be iron sighting, so really this has nothing to do with it either. Something is just not right between medium - long range, It should not take a full clip to take a guy down when you have the xhair on him the whole time. Is the problem damage or bloom related?? honestly I have no idea at this point. Anyone else have any ideas on what the issue could be??

[Chris2]

I don’t know, sometimes I can kill a guy at long range no problem, other times I seem to just tickle them however seems everyone else has no problem killing me from long range

[LeeStyle]

Perhaps there is an issue with registration of bullets at medium to long distances. Maybe the server tick rates aren’t high enough to achieve proper registration? I have encountered this issue several times throughout playing. I have experienced this in Counter-Strike Global Offensive on servers that are using a lower tick rate and not capturing enough updates per second, which ignore bullet/player collision due to it.

[stealth6]

From the screenshots, it looks like the bloom goes all over the place, a bit to the right or a bit to the left. In ETQW it went in a straight line - that’s already a pretty big difference. (even when ADS)

In ETQW, you’d just have to drag your weapon down to counter spread, in DB it’s not possible, because it seems to be random.

Next up the finer spread is caused by ADS, I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t use ADS unless they’re not moving or really far away (over 20 meters).

15m or less and it already gets difficult for me to keep tracking them while ADS. Whereas in ET / RTCW you just had to crouch to get a much finer spread, this is easy to throw into your dance for some pin point accuracy.

Plus as DAUK already said, these are when you’re standing still, does moving increase the spread even more? Or when you just come out of a sprint is there a cool down before you can shoot straight?

[Valdez]

Perhaps there is an issue with registration of bullets at medium to long distances. Maybe the server tick rates aren’t high enough to achieve proper registration? I have encountered this issue several times throughout playing. I have experienced this in Counter-Strike Global Offensive on servers that are using a lower tick rate and not capturing enough updates per second, which ignore bullet/player collision due to it.

This honestly seems like the most logical explanation. The cs-go example is absolutely perfect and one I have experienced myself plenty of times. So hopefully DB will have a way to adjust these type of settings for client and server.

Stealth6, I never played ETQW so I really can’t compare it. Also moving while firing does not increase spread in DB.

[Evil-Doer]

Perhaps there is an issue with registration of bullets at medium to long distances. Maybe the server tick rates aren’t high enough to achieve proper registration? I have encountered this issue several times throughout playing. I have experienced this in Counter-Strike Global Offensive on servers that are using a lower tick rate and not capturing enough updates per second, which ignore bullet/player collision due to it.

This completely seems to make sense.

[stealth6]

Stealth6, I never played ETQW so I really can’t compare it. Also moving while firing does not increase spread in DB.

Me neither, I was just judging by the screenshots, DB random - ETQW straight line.

[ailmanki]

60% of kills, in a recent sample of 30 matches that I took, come from the side or behind. Map flow might have as much to do with it as ROF.

Sadly not, and I need to spend more time looking at it, with a bigger sample and comparing it between maps. Right now, with no baseline to compare it to, it is just an interesting stat, even if it does strike me as higher than I’d expect.

How did you get those stats? I hope it does consider more then just the killing bullet. Also it would be interesting to know, how much of the 60% percent is due to crossfire / multiple emenies.

[amazinglarry]

How did you get those stats? I hope it does consider more then just the killing bullet. Also it would be interesting to know, how much of the 60% percent is due to crossfire / multiple emenies.

I would guess with:

http://fireteam.net/products

Gameplay Analysis Tools
Global and session-based gameplay stats and metrics to help you tune the game experience.
Heatmaps, graphs, reports.

I can’t remember the name of it though

[tokamak]

It would be really awesome statistics for clans to work with and refine their tactics.

[INF3RN0]

Perhaps there is an issue with registration of bullets at medium to long distances. Maybe the server tick rates aren’t high enough to achieve proper registration? I have encountered this issue several times throughout playing. I have experienced this in Counter-Strike Global Offensive on servers that are using a lower tick rate and not capturing enough updates per second, which ignore bullet/player collision due to it.

It’s simply the difference in spread between iron-sighting and hip-firing, but in most cases people don’t compensate for recoil at long range. The spread difference is way too much at mid-range, and when your iron-sighting the spread becomes very low. If the system doesn’t improve pro-aimers will end up iron-sighting 80% of the time if it can be helped.

[Evil-Doer]

Then the spread on the walls is misleading, because there barely is any. So that leads to what Leethal suggested it is, an I’m leaning more towards that.

[INF3RN0]

Then the spread on the walls is misleading, because there barely is any. So that leads to what Leethal suggested it is, an I’m leaning more towards that.

I never have a problem hitting a long range target when iron sighted. Hipfiring at mid range is where the problems occur because the spread becomes so wide with bloom. I definitely would want to see a video example of this before considering it the cause because I haven’t seen a perfectly tracked iron-sight not hit, just hip-fire.

[Evil-Doer]

I never have a problem hitting a long range target when iron sighted. Hipfiring at mid range is where the problems occur because the spread becomes so wide with bloom. I definitely would want to see a video example of this before considering it the cause because I haven’t seen a perfectly tracked iron-sight not hit, just hip-fire.

Go in the game, shoot a wall at a distance, then run up to it; an look at it. Your going to be extremely surprised. Seeing we can’t make youtube videos right now.

It is weird though, I do agree that the iron-sight hits, but that brings another good noticeable up you ever witness missed shots when someone is strafing at a distance, your on the player, but they miss? (while iron-sighted)

Actually makes me lean even more towards what Leethal has brought up. I’m excited to see if we can figure this out.

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=Evil-Doer;419675]Go in the game, shoot a wall at a distance, then run up to it; an look at it. Your going to be extremely surprised. Seeing we can’t make youtube videos right now.

It is weird though, I do agree that the iron-sight hits, but that brings another good noticeable up you ever witness missed shots when someone is strafing at a distance, your on the player, but they miss? (while iron-sighted)
[/QUOTE]

I have shot at a wall and can post some ss for a reference if need be… I am thinking you must not be thinking of the same mid-range I am. You can hit a target at mid range, but in a lot of cases the bullets won’t register especially if your aiming at the head and firing the entire clip at once. I am very doubtful of most claims of game fault as it tends to actually be player fault/misconception 99% of the time. It’s a personal responsibility to be incredibly hard on yourself before making a judgement call, but the simple mathematics of the bloom spread makes the problem so clear that a simple test patch would expose it right away. I am very sure that just about every case where people think they aren’t registering bullets while iron-sighted at a long distance is purely because they are over-aiming due to the slight recoil or trying to hipfire (which just does not work).

[acQu]

The missing-bullets-on-medium/long-range theory makes sense, since i mostly am on medium/long-range due to my lag, trying to compensate for it by just keeping out of the main fights, and i often feel some shots, although clear hits to me, seem not to register. Although on the other hand, why wouldn’t it be the same hit-registration-behaviour on short distance. Unfortunately am not able to say more on this, since i need a better machine to get a real feeling of the game, and not lag all the time. Sure shooting at walls could give an indication, e.g. if bullet holes are missing, but i need to verify that first.

EDIT would appreciate some dummy models that we can spawn in. If SD had already created some, then it would maybe useful and not too much work to make them available to us ?

[INF3RN0]

Typical mid-range distance

Head-hitbox reference

Standing hipfire with recoil compensation

Strafing hipfire with recoil compensation

Iron-sighted strafe with recoil compensation (standing gave similar results)

I ss a few tests of the strafing hipfire of myself and other players on the server. I posted the one that appeared the most consistent out of all of them. Now imagine another player strafing and it suddenly becomes a lotto situation of who will get lucky and reg more headshots than the other.

[Evil-Doer]

Maybe Splash Damage can give us some REAL insight on this situation. There is definitely no one here saying that when iron-sighted it isn’t more accurate; that is pretty much stating the obvious.

The screen shot while strafing in my humble opinion doesn’t prove anything; an really isn’t any type of way of proving spread on the gun while moving unless you have a computer programed wrist that keeps the cross hair in the ‘exact’ location when moving.

I’ll be stopping here with this great discussion, because you can not prove anything with this type of testing, other than standing an firing; then strafing an NOT moving the cross hair - just shooting as you strafe in a straight line.

I mean honestly let’s just get an answer from splash damage. Because this is just getting completely redundant an turning into a pissing contest. I just want a real answer on what these spreads are. This by no means is a who is right or wrong at this point; legitimately trying to get a answer on why stuff doesn’t seem right when shooting someone.