Let’s talk: The spawn system


(Hundopercent) #41

Who is we?

[QUOTE=tokamak;458082]Counterstrike has one life, as does Rainbow six, wouldn’t call those two slow in any shape or form. Rounds are decided in fractions of seconds.

This game needs to rewards fast-paced thinking along with fast-paced shooting. Right now it’s just fast-paced shooting without consequence and THEREFORE without thinking.

It doesn’t matter how fast the combat it, if it doesn’t lead to anything then it could be twice as fast or twice as slower and still be boring as hell.[/QUOTE]

Both of those games are slow games and not faced paced shooters. It may be fast for you, but for others, many others, it is not fast at all. DB isn’t even fast enough for most the people in the alpha.


(Hundopercent) #42

[QUOTE=tokamak;458162]I LOVE growth within the life. Building killstreaks in COD and getting far makes your palms sweat and curse at your pc if your streak gets broken.

Yes please. More of this. Doesn’t need to be as drastic as COD but slight bonuses for each useful thing you do within the life and resetting on death would be wonderful! You would want players to bite their nails on the choices they’re fasing if they didn’t have to keep their hands on the mouse and keyboard.

Because they don’t relate to the actual gameplay. At least you’re trying to make a case for making life mean less. It’s mostly sentimental but at least you get that this is what it’s all about.[/QUOTE]

So you complain about Rambo medics but want to add perks to people who dominate as a Rambo? I don’t get your mentality. Kills streaks are what killed CoD for me and tons of other players. There is nothing nailbiting about lobbing a grenade at a spawn for a triple kill and getting a bonus, sitting in a corner, getting 2 more kills and then summoning a chopper to go around and lay waste to people that are spawning. It may be nail biting for you because you play the game twice a year and getting a kill streak is miraculous. But for other people who actually put time in, that’s drooler mode.

[QUOTE=tokamak;458173]Why is hitting the zero timer important? I know the answer seems obvious but there’s much more to it so could you lead me through why exactly this helps the game?
[/QUOTE]

Why is reinventing the wheel so important to you? Every argument you make is about a how x should work like x because y mainstream game does it this way and that’s why it has to be done because “we (only you)” players want it that way. It’s obnoxious. Making an argument for the sake of arguing is retarded and does nothing but regress a thread. -_-


(Hundopercent) #43

[QUOTE=Samurai.;458033]I am not sure Musashiii if you are aware of the 2 different spawn systems that are currently implemented in DB between the Veteran SW and the Casual Obj Servers as what you are asking for (W:ET system) is what we have in the Veteran SW server, except we do not have the spawn timer on the HUD which is a massive part of this system that need’s to be implemented. Without the spawn times of your own being displayed on the HUD and no communication on a pub server from teammates of when you next spawn it is a lot less fun to play on the Veteran server as you have that ‘unknown’ factor right now.

As for spawn times per each objective, they just need to be rebalanced over time as more content is added to the game this balance will constantly be changing.

I would have to disagree with the less ammo part, this is something i really don’t like on public servers having to be even more reliant on terrible teammates trying to gain their attention to hand out some more ammo, it really isn’t fun having a system in which your most effective player can be limited by the worst player on the server if they choose not to hand out ammo from their lack of understanding of the game. In comp it seems do-able, promotes teamplay etc, but being realistic in public servers it just isn’t going to work out like you would want it to.[/QUOTE]

Just a headsup. The SW is not true spawn waves btw. You can sit on the ground waiting to hit space to respawn vs if you miss the reinforcement time you wait 30 seconds.


(prophett) #44

[QUOTE=tokamak;458082]Counterstrike has one life, as does Rainbow six, wouldn’t call those two slow in any shape or form. Rounds are decided in fractions of seconds.
[/QUOTE]

CS is very much a slow, tactical shooter. CSGO is a little more forgiving of aggressive play due to higher acceleration (which hopefully will be fixed soon), but the rounds being decided in seconds doesn’t say anything about the speed of the game.


(Erkin31) #45

“Doesn’t need to be as drastic as COD but slight bonuses for each useful thing you do within the life and resetting on death would be wonderful!”

That the last thing i would to see in DB. That can only ruin the teamplay needed to achieve objectives, everybody will work for himself (camp) and not take a lot of risks to achieve an objective.

As has been said above, the system on et/etqw is perfect. Some innovations is good, but when a system works very well, it’s stupid to change it.


(ailmanki) #46

[QUOTE=Erkin31;458218]That the last thing i would to see in DB. That can only ruin the teamplay needed to achieve objectives, everybody will work for himself (camp) and not take a lot of risks to achieve an objective.

As has been said above, the system on et/etqw is perfect. Some innovations is good, but when a system works very well, it’s stupid to change it.[/QUOTE]

If we had not reinvented the wheel over and over again, we would be driving with stone wheels.

If you would reward teamplay more then camping… problem solved?


(tokamak) #47

Cheers.

It’s easy to pick something new (for this game) and dismiss it outright by imagining the worst way it could be implemented and then bashing it.

[QUOTE=strychzilla;458191]So you complain about Rambo medics but want to add perks to people who dominate as a Rambo? I don’t get your mentality.
[/QUOTE]
I think that’s because you missed the next part:
"slight bonuses for each useful thing you do within the life and resetting on death would be wonderful! "
Whatever is useful is class-related. A medic that becomes stronger the more he heals and revives is awesome. A more combat oriented medic class can also grow through kills, sure. Just depends on what you want the character to do.

Kills streaks are what killed CoD for me and tons of other players. There is nothing nailbiting about lobbing a grenade at a spawn for a triple kill and getting a bonus, sitting in a corner, getting 2 more kills and then summoning a chopper to go around and lay waste to people that are spawning.

Please save yourself time by not responding to small bits of what I say. Just omitting further nuance from the stuff you respond to isn’t really helping a constructive discussion. I didn’t say the killstreaks had to be as drastic as in COD. In COD you get free kills sure. Doesn’t need to happen in DB.

It misses the point in that this is just another way of increasing the value of living and increasing the sanction on dying. That’s what I was getting at. No need to start dropping tactical nukes on Piccadilly Circus.

Why is reinventing the wheel so important to you? Every argument you make is about a how x should work like x because y mainstream game does it this way and that’s why it has to be done because “we (only you)” players want it that way. It’s obnoxious. Making an argument for the sake of arguing is retarded and does nothing but regress a thread. -_-

Now that’s just nonsense.

My arguments never rest on ‘this game does it therefore DB should do it’ ever. I give an analysis on why it would improve DB on it’s own merits. I guess it’s my fault whenever I use an example from another game because it makes people bristle and home in on the examples rather than the actual arguments.

On the other hand, all I keep seeing here is ‘Wolfenstein did it so we don’t need to do anything different’. That’s just vacuous. Wolfenstein isn’t sacro sanct, the mechanics it used simply had no rivals during it’s time. Its like saying “I don’t get why we still aren’t just using MS-DOS, it used to be a highly popular OS, no need to be all fancy”.

Just because people have adapted themselves to archaic gameplay doesn’t mean a modern game needs to include it and it certainly doesn’t mean a modern game can’t improve on it.

‘useful things’ aren’t limited to making kills. Most of the actions that can make a player grow would be tied to team-work. You can’t grow if you’re camping in a corner because there would be no way to do the team-related handlings required for the growth.


(stealth6) #48

Wolfenstein had no rival then and it doesn’t now :smiley: if it did we wouldn’t all be here moaning about it. Most games atm have a low TTK and generally stupid stuff to make casual players feel good.

The closest game I’ve played recently is NS2 which has some trickjumping as an alien and hip fire shooting as a marine.

Also any kind of buff to a player that is doing well is bad imo. You should keep a level playing field so a noob always has a fair chance at killing the best player in the game. Otherwise again you are promoting slow paced gameplay since people are going to try and not die, aka take no risks constantly fallback and heal up… BORING

I need ACTION ACTION ACTION.


(Erkin31) #49

ailmanki : ET already has Pirelli tires with kevlar belt :slight_smile:

"slight bonuses for each useful thing you do within the life and resetting on death would be wonderful! "
Whatever is useful is class-related. A medic that becomes stronger the more he heals and revives is awesome. A more combat oriented medic class can also grow through kills, sure. Just depends on what you want the character to do.

That doesn’t change the problem. In this kind of game, we need to not fear the death for the sake of teamplay and objective game mode.


(tokamak) #50

Do we now? Less people seeking help, less people waiting for revives. It’s the low weight life has in the game that makes people more solitary players.

The less valuable respawning becomes (by not getting the instants at your leisure) the more important the resources supplied by your team get.

Also any kind of buff to a player that is doing well is bad imo. You should keep a level playing field so a noob always has a fair chance at killing the best player in the game.

Now that’s definitely NOT a Wolfenstein or an ET value. Skilled players have always been able to grow a lead on those that can’t grow as fast as them. I want to have that sense of progression back again, and preferably within the span of one life.


(stealth6) #51

If you’re talking about the player upgrades like light weapons etc. Those were disabled in matches and on pub servers most were running XP save so after 4 maps (1 for a good player) everybody’s on a level playing field.


(Erkin31) #52

Do we now? Less people seeking help, less people waiting for revives. It’s the low weight life has in the game that makes people more solitary players.

The less valuable respawning becomes (by not getting the instants at your leisure) the more important the resources supplied by your team get.

Less compared to what ? E.T. ?

  • E.T. has a classic self kill system, so it’s not a problem of value of respawn. DB still needs some elements to promote the teamplay, like the XP system (with no loss at death).
  • I also find that the maps on DB don’t push the need of teamplay like in ET. On attack, it’s really fast to go on the objective after the respawn.
  • DB spawntimer is low.
  • Finally, the revive system is less attractive than in ET, with no protection at the respawn.

(Protekt1) #53

[QUOTE=stealth6;458223]Wolfenstein had no rival then and it doesn’t now :smiley: if it did we wouldn’t all be here moaning about it. Most games atm have a low TTK and generally stupid stuff to make casual players feel good.

The closest game I’ve played recently is NS2 which has some trickjumping as an alien and hip fire shooting as a marine.

Also any kind of buff to a player that is doing well is bad imo. You should keep a level playing field so a noob always has a fair chance at killing the best player in the game. Otherwise again you are promoting slow paced gameplay since people are going to try and not die, aka take no risks constantly fallback and heal up… BORING

I need ACTION ACTION ACTION.[/QUOTE]

ET had that XP system that did give buffs. And they are planning on adding ultimate abilities tied to score.

I disagree with the underlined big time. It wholly depends on how the mechanics work, how “buffs” are delivered and what the “buffs” are.

NS2 is a big example of success leading to buffs. I didn’t find the scrag trick jumps to be that fun of a mechanic, just a side note. NS2 marines is entirely different than a strafe shooter plus they have pretty low ttk versus scrags.

But firefall currently has a fun acceleration maintaining/building mechanic that was an unintended result of a patch a while ago and its great. I think firefall has awesome potential in its current build and if they continue to balance the frames its going to be a great competitive experience. Its pretty much my go to game when DB isn’t populated. The PVE is pretty fun too because its totally unnecessary to enjoy the PVP.


(tokamak) #54

Buffs become a form of resource-management. There’s prestige rewards in it, sure, but it also makes you think better about what way you spend your limited time within a match.

But this is drifting off-topic.


(montheponies) #55

[QUOTE=tokamak;458226]Do we now? Less people seeking help, less people waiting for revives. It’s the low weight life has in the game that makes people more solitary players.

The less valuable respawning becomes (by not getting the instants at your leisure) the more important the resources supplied by your team get.

Now that’s definitely NOT a Wolfenstein or an ET value. Skilled players have always been able to grow a lead on those that can’t grow as fast as them. I want to have that sense of progression back again, and preferably within the span of one life.[/QUOTE]

\kill’ing at the wrong time punishes you as does dieing on a full spawn. If anything the existing system of low spawn time coupled with the ‘respawn when you like after the time ticks over’ is making this more of a solitary game. RTCW had absolutely no in-life or in-session progression, that particular disaster is why a vast number of folk complain about uber-meds as you could in W:ET gain extra ammo, dual pistols, adrenaline etc etc all of which made the medic a viable standalone class.


(tokamak) #56

No argument there. Fixing that and still leaving the spawn timer out is my favourite option.


(Nail) #57

self packing and the ability to pickup enemy’s weapons/ammo is what caused rambo medics

but I’d like to see spawn waves